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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 21:58:58 GMT -5
"I would not take pictures and give the license plate though"
I wouldnt do that either. I wouldnt be calling to get someone, i would call to ensure the kid's safety.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 22:27:08 GMT -5
All I have to say is I'm glad my Odyssey has tinted glass. No worries about people in the parking lot seeing my kids in the back while I'm getting milk. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 22:32:42 GMT -5
Tinted windows: the safety net of neglectful parents ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 22:39:49 GMT -5
Heck, I think tinted windows were what facilitated their conception in the first place. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif)
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 22:40:17 GMT -5
It's like I said before- people tend to judge (or not) based on results, not actions. If the kid had died or something else tragic had occurred, I'm ready to bet most of you would be falling all over the place to assure yourselves and each other that the mom was just a moron and you would never do something so stupid.
But since nothing happened, it's all good and that guy should have minded his own business.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 22:49:27 GMT -5
As I've said several times, I don't agree with how he handled it either (only because he actually witnessed her leaving the boy and it would have been simple for him to say "hey, please take your kid in with you so no one feels compelled to call 911"). But if I saw a four year old in a car alone, I'd do something. Probably wouldn't call the police right away unless he seemed to be in danger, but I'd go into the store and try to find the parent or have them paged- and, in failure, I likely WOULD call the police. And stay near the car until someone turned up.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 22:52:32 GMT -5
To be honest, most of the kids die unintentionally due to a change in routine that makes the parent forget. Only 18% of the 38/yr are of the "left in the car to run to the store" type variety. I 100% sympathize with the forgetting the kid in the car and I don't even have a kid.
I had a hair apt that's half way between home and work on a Saturday - I had passed by the exit for the hair apt before I realized it was Saturday and I wasn't going to work. I was driving a friend home in my college days after being up at a party the night before - even with her hand in my face pointing towards her dorm I kept driving towards mine forgetting I had someone else in my car.
So yea, I sympathize with those people.
It's probably impossible to tell, but I wonder the length of time the people intentionally left their kids in the car and they died. I'm guessing it was prob more than 10 minutes.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 19, 2014 23:12:03 GMT -5
I have left my kids in the car... Heck I have left them in the car at much younger ages than 4. Not something I do very often though. Sure something bad could happen, but honestly there are way more dangerous situations that my kids are in. My kids are also allowed to jump on the neighbors tramp. My son takes showers unsupervised at 5. I don't sit in the room when DD takes a bath at 3. I have knives up on the kitchen counter that the kids could get to if they wanted. My cleaning supplies are not all locked up. My medication is not all locked up. I don't sit out front & watch DD & DS if they are playing. I sometimes sleep with the windows open at night. My son rides in the front seat of the car most of the time. None of my kids rode rear-facing until 2. DS2's car seat MIGHT be expired by now (not sure on this one). I have 2 dogs & DS2 is allowed to play on the floor even if the dogs are in the room. Bad things can happen at any time. You do your best as a parent to look at the risks & make decisions & do the best you can. The odds of something bad happening to a 4 year old left in a car for 5 minutes on a mild day is pretty small, despite what seems to be thought. There are way bigger risks & parenting fails than this IMO. Heck, just being a single parent to a young kids puts them at risk. I was way more concerned that I would fall in the shower, hit my head & die, leaving my kids alone. No one might check for a couple days & my kids weren't old enough to seek help and might die before anyone realized. Sure it isn't likely, but neither is something happening in a parking lot & at least alone in a parking lot, someone will eventually notice. Your kids must be so much better behaved than mine. If I left any of mine in the car by themselves, 2 out of 3 would start driving the car within seconds of me being gone. Overall, I am fairly laid back when it comes to many child-relating things. That being said, if there is something bad that I can prevent from happening, I will do it. I am selfish that way. No way I want to spend the rest of my life feeling guilty about not preventing my child's hurt or death.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2014 7:34:43 GMT -5
Post babies, it's always a judgment call. I doubt I would call over a teenager. Toddlers, I might call and I might not. It would be less likely the older they appeared, and would depend on other factors like the weather. Again, the main reason I would call over babies over older children is because I now know how easy it is to forget you have a baby in the car with you. And if that happened to me, I HOPE someone would call the cops rather than just shrug and assume I was nearby somewhere. Is the kid old enough to get out of the car and go find the parent safely? Old enough to walk across the parking lot? @tbird People watch for this the next couple of grocery runs you do. It can be really interesting to see tiny kids walking in the parking lot - not holding hands or onto the cart, just walking near the adult. I don't trust other people in parking lots so my kids, even at age 4.5 and 6 are either holding onto my hand or the cart. And I've overheard comments as we're heading out and I'm doublechecking who's holding on to whom/what.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 7:38:00 GMT -5
It's like I said before- people tend to judge (or not) based on results, not actions. If the kid had died or something else tragic had occurred, I'm ready to bet most of you would be falling all over the place to assure yourselves and each other that the mom was just a moron and you would never do something so stupid. But since nothing happened, it's all good and that guy should have minded his own business. If the kid died, then either the mom was gone more than 5 min Or ssomething tragic happened. The something tragic was something that probably could havehhappened at home. Sorry I don't see the risk in my actions of occasionally leaving my kids in the car for less than 5 min.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 8:21:07 GMT -5
As to when I would get involved if I saw a child in a car. It depends (just like it depends on when I would leave my child alone in the car).
1. Location matters - Preschool drop off or gas station, I'm not going to say anything. Big box store/grocery store - I am going to be far more likely to speak up. My office complex - I would probably speak up immediately because none of those locations are "quick" trips.
2. Weather matters - Under 70, probably not going to say anything. 70 and sunny, more likely to try to figure out what is going on. Over 80 probably going to get involved, 90 or 100, yes I'm going to say something.
The same way I assess the situation on the rare instances when I leave my kids in the car. Last winter I was up in the KC area visiting a friend. I stopped for gas before I headed home. I had DD with me. I needed to run in after getting gas. DD had taken off her shoes and it was going to be a pain to take her in, but the place was busy and while it was a safe area, I figured there would be too many people like Firebird and Bunnysmom and decided to bring her in with me. Circumstances do matter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 8:32:14 GMT -5
I have left my kids in the car... Heck I have left them in the car at much younger ages than 4. Not something I do very often though. Sure something bad could happen, but honestly there are way more dangerous situations that my kids are in. My kids are also allowed to jump on the neighbors tramp. My son takes showers unsupervised at 5. I don't sit in the room when DD takes a bath at 3. I have knives up on the kitchen counter that the kids could get to if they wanted. My cleaning supplies are not all locked up. My medication is not all locked up. I don't sit out front & watch DD & DS if they are playing. I sometimes sleep with the windows open at night. My son rides in the front seat of the car most of the time. None of my kids rode rear-facing until 2. DS2's car seat MIGHT be expired by now (not sure on this one). I have 2 dogs & DS2 is allowed to play on the floor even if the dogs are in the room. Bad things can happen at any time. You do your best as a parent to look at the risks & make decisions & do the best you can. The odds of something bad happening to a 4 year old left in a car for 5 minutes on a mild day is pretty small, despite what seems to be thought. There are way bigger risks & parenting fails than this IMO. Heck, just being a single parent to a young kids puts them at risk. I was way more concerned that I would fall in the shower, hit my head & die, leaving my kids alone. No one might check for a couple days & my kids weren't old enough to seek help and might die before anyone realized. Sure it isn't likely, but neither is something happening in a parking lot & at least alone in a parking lot, someone will eventually notice. Your kids must be so much better behaved than mine. If I left any of mine in the car by themselves, 2 out of 3 would start driving the car within seconds of me being gone. Overall, I am fairly laid back when it comes to many child-relating things. That being said, if there is something bad that I can prevent from happening, I will do it. I am selfish that way. No way I want to spend the rest of my life feeling guilty about not preventing my child's hurt or death. My car seat is child proof it seems. My 4 year old still hasn't a clue how to get out of his.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 8:51:41 GMT -5
Yeah, my 4 year old still can't get out on his own either. I'm to the point that I am encouraging him to try, but I struggle with the button - more in my car than in the daddymobile, but it is still not that easy.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2014 8:55:21 GMT -5
You guys keep harping on this "only 5 minutes" thing. I guess my life must just be crazier than everyone else's. When I swing by the bank and have my 16 year old DS in the car I tell him "I'll be back in 5 minutes" he just laughs and says "Sure I'll time you". 50% of the time it's never just 5 minutes. Let's see- 5 minutes at the bank one day turned into 15 because their computer was done and they had to process everyone in front of me by hand and it was a mess. The bank president's office window faces the front lobby. If he's not in a meeting and sees me he wants to come out and chat for a few minutes. Last time I ran into the licensing bureau to pick up tabs the guy in front of me had 20 titles to change around (worked for a car dealership) and I stood behind him for 30 minutes. Judging by the one car in the parking lot 5 minutes would have normally been a reasonable guess.
Kwik Trip around here is insane. Half the time DH goes in to use the bathroom or get a soda he is gone 10 to 15 minutes because of the line. It's a madhouse there. Cars coming and going constantly. In a span of 10 minutes there are probably 40 cars that come and go from the Kwik Trip closest to us.
When my son, nieces, nephews, etc were 4 they would be out of their carseat and trying to open the door within seconds of me putting the car in park.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 8:58:49 GMT -5
15 minutes in a Kwik Trip? I have seriously NEVER spent that much time in one and I stop at least twice a week where I go inside (not just at the pump) It really is run in, run out here.
Honestly, I'd be pissed off and walk out long before waiting in line 15 minutes there.
As for the DMV. I would never leave my kids in the car when I went there because that's a guaranteed wait and I haven't stepped foot in a bank for years except my house refinance.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2014 9:05:51 GMT -5
I don't shop at Kwik Trips, etc. I do the pay at the pump thing unless we're on a road trip, in which case the kids are coming in to do a potty stop!
Mutt mentioned the mental exercises - if someplace is busy, I'll just skip it. Or make DH do it. I honestly don't know how Angel does it.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2014 9:11:26 GMT -5
Not here. I don't know if it's because ours are on busier streets or what. It's ridiculous. I would try avoid KT but they are more convenient to get in and out of than most of the other gas stations in our town. We have 4 in our city and they are seriously always packed. I don't care what time you go. They are swamped. The AM/PM by our house in CA was the same way. It was not usual for there to be 10 to 15 people in line in front of you.
On your average Saturday morning there are easily 30 people inside our Kwik Trip shopping, using the bathroom, etc. They have good sized parking lots and the one by my house every spot is full constantly. Along with most of the gas pumps. I usually have to wait for someone to leave before I can get to a pump.
I live by the University. You should see the madhouse up there that ensues when it's Viking Training Camp! That KT goes from busy to insane for three weeks straight since it's the only gas station in that area.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 20, 2014 9:12:14 GMT -5
I have left my kids in the car... Heck I have left them in the car at much younger ages than 4. Not something I do very often though. Sure something bad could happen, but honestly there are way more dangerous situations that my kids are in. My kids are also allowed to jump on the neighbors tramp. My son takes showers unsupervised at 5. I don't sit in the room when DD takes a bath at 3. I have knives up on the kitchen counter that the kids could get to if they wanted. My cleaning supplies are not all locked up. My medication is not all locked up. I don't sit out front & watch DD & DS if they are playing. I sometimes sleep with the windows open at night. My son rides in the front seat of the car most of the time. None of my kids rode rear-facing until 2. DS2's car seat MIGHT be expired by now (not sure on this one). I have 2 dogs & DS2 is allowed to play on the floor even if the dogs are in the room. Bad things can happen at any time. You do your best as a parent to look at the risks & make decisions & do the best you can. The odds of something bad happening to a 4 year old left in a car for 5 minutes on a mild day is pretty small, despite what seems to be thought. There are way bigger risks & parenting fails than this IMO. Heck, just being a single parent to a young kids puts them at risk. I was way more concerned that I would fall in the shower, hit my head & die, leaving my kids alone. No one might check for a couple days & my kids weren't old enough to seek help and might die before anyone realized. Sure it isn't likely, but neither is something happening in a parking lot & at least alone in a parking lot, someone will eventually notice. Your kids must be so much better behaved than mine. If I left any of mine in the car by themselves, 2 out of 3 would start driving the car within seconds of me being gone. Overall, I am fairly laid back when it comes to many child-relating things. That being said, if there is something bad that I can prevent from happening, I will do it. I am selfish that way. No way I want to spend the rest of my life feeling guilty about not preventing my child's hurt or death. LOL! Well I don't leave the keys in the car with the kids, so driving isn't an option for them. And yes my kids are pretty well behaved for the most part. It would definitely depend on the kid, some you probably can't leave alone for a second. My son has always been an excellent rule follower & I trust him a lot.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2014 9:14:51 GMT -5
Angel! - how old are your kids now?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 9:16:29 GMT -5
Not here. I don't know if it's because ours are on busier streets or what. It's ridiculous. I would try avoid KT but they are more convenient to get in and out of than most of the other gas stations in our town. We have 4 in our city and they are seriously always packed. I don't care what time you go. They are swamped. The AM/PM by our house in CA was the same way. It was not usual for there to be 10 to 15 people in line in front of you.
On your average Saturday morning there are easily 30 people inside our Kwik Trip shopping, using the bathroom, etc. They have good sized parking lots and the one by my house every spot is full constantly. Along with most of the gas pumps. I usually have to wait for someone to leave before I can get to a pump.
I live by the University. You should see the madhouse up there that ensues when it's Viking Training Camp! That KT goes from busy to insane for three weeks straight since it's the only gas station in that area. Yeah, that's not happening for me, LOL It ceases being a convenience store at that point. We have 5 or 6 and I very rarely use them for the bathroom. It's almost always just milk, eggs or butter and it really does take me about as long as it takes to walk to the fridge, scan my credit card and walk out. Sometimes I might have to wait behind one or two and even then I get antsy (I don't do lines well).
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2014 9:18:13 GMT -5
in my personal opinion DH's mom is a sorry excuse for a mother. She has done a great many things wrong in parenting my husband. Yes at the end of the day he turned out "just fine". If by "just fine" you mean years of therapy and a therapist that told him to limit his contact with his mother because she was toxic. Being beaten by step fathers, sexually assaulted by family members, watching his parents drink night after night. Sure he's just peachy now. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
This woman used to leave DH home alone for the entire weekend starting when he was 5 or 6 so she could go on little road trips with her husband. Step Father was a shriner and drove one of those little cars in the parades so they'd travel for parades. When they did bring DH with they'd leave him behind in the hotel room while they went to the bar.
All this is all good because DH "turned out just fine". Yeah- nope.
I basically adopted a "do the opposite of Peggy" attitude when it came to parenting.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 20, 2014 9:19:00 GMT -5
You guys keep harping on this "only 5 minutes" thing. I guess my life must just be crazier than everyone else's. When I swing by the bank and have my 16 year old DS in the car I tell him "I'll be back in 5 minutes" he just laughs and says "Sure I'll time you". 50% of the time it's never just 5 minutes. Let's see- 5 minutes at the bank one day turned into 15 because their computer was done and they had to process everyone in front of me by hand and it was a mess. The bank president's office window faces the front lobby. If he's not in a meeting and sees me he wants to come out and chat for a few minutes. Last time I ran into the licensing bureau to pick up tabs the guy in front of me had 20 titles to change around (worked for a car dealership) and I stood behind him for 30 minutes. Judging by the one car in the parking lot 5 minutes would have normally been a reasonable guess.
Kwik Trip around here is insane. Half the time DH goes in to use the bathroom or get a soda he is gone 10 to 15 minutes because of the line. It's a madhouse there. Cars coming and going constantly. In a span of 10 minutes there are probably 40 cars that come and go from the Kwik Trip closest to us.
When my son, nieces, nephews, etc were 4 they would be out of their carseat and trying to open the door within seconds of me putting the car in park. Well, those are examples of times when I wouldn't consider leaving a kid in the car. You can never tell how long a bank line will be from the outside & my bank almost always takes longer than 5 minutes anyway. Most gas stations are all glass so you can see if there is a long line or short line. 6 people in line & I would bring in the kids or skip the trip entirely. Then you always have the option to walk back out to your car if something is taking longer than expected. There is no rule that once you have walked away from the car you absolutely cannot go back until the errand is completed. That is why I am so confused why people keep acting like the timeframe is completely out of your control. Barring an accident that renders me unconcious or a robbery, I really can't think of any circumstances where I can't just walk back to my car.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 20, 2014 9:21:11 GMT -5
Angel! - how old are your kids now? DS1 is 5 (almost 6), DD is 3, and DS2 is 6 months.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 9:21:49 GMT -5
So, how do you people that never leave your kids in the car (especially those of you with more than one) handle carrying small children AND the milk, eggs, mug of coffee or whatever? I really can't imagine going to a KT to get milk in the winter, unbuckling a 6 month old and 3 year old, putting on their winter gear. Carrying the baby, leading the toddler, going into the store, and grabbing a couple things, then getting them all back out to the car, taking off the winter gear, buckling them back in....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 9:23:35 GMT -5
You guys keep harping on this "only 5 minutes" thing. I guess my life must just be crazier than everyone else's. When I swing by the bank and have my 16 year old DS in the car I tell him "I'll be back in 5 minutes" he just laughs and says "Sure I'll time you". 50% of the time it's never just 5 minutes. Let's see- 5 minutes at the bank one day turned into 15 because their computer was done and they had to process everyone in front of me by hand and it was a mess. The bank president's office window faces the front lobby. If he's not in a meeting and sees me he wants to come out and chat for a few minutes. Last time I ran into the licensing bureau to pick up tabs the guy in front of me had 20 titles to change around (worked for a car dealership) and I stood behind him for 30 minutes. Judging by the one car in the parking lot 5 minutes would have normally been a reasonable guess.
Kwik Trip around here is insane. Half the time DH goes in to use the bathroom or get a soda he is gone 10 to 15 minutes because of the line. It's a madhouse there. Cars coming and going constantly. In a span of 10 minutes there are probably 40 cars that come and go from the Kwik Trip closest to us.
When my son, nieces, nephews, etc were 4 they would be out of their carseat and trying to open the door within seconds of me putting the car in park. Well, those are examples of times when I wouldn't consider leaving a kid in the car. You can never tell how long a bank line will be from the outside & my bank almost always takes longer than 5 minutes anyway. Most gas stations are all glass so you can see if there is a long line or short line. 6 people in line & I would bring in the kids or skip the trip entirely. Then you always have the option to walk back out to your car if something is taking longer than expected. There is no rule that once you have walked away from the car you absolutely cannot go back until the errand is completed. That is why I am so confused why people keep acting like the timeframe is completely out of your control. Barring an accident that renders me unconcious or a robbery, I really can't think of any circumstances where I can't just walk back to my car.And in that case, good thing you left your kids in the car instead of in there where the guy shooting up the store was!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2014 9:23:44 GMT -5
Angel! - how old are your kids now? DS1 is 5 (almost 6), DD is 3, and DS2 is 6 months. God, you've been dealing with diapers, day care and bottles for almost 6 consecutive years.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2014 9:24:24 GMT -5
My point was- that lady went into Best Buy (I'm assuming based on what others have said). You can not see inside or outside a best buy to watch your car. That place is a maze. It takes me forever to find anything in that store. The cashiers at best buy are not known for their efficiency. "Do you want the extended warrenty?" "Do you have a best buy rewards card?" "Would you like to sign up for one?" etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 9:26:54 GMT -5
So, how do you people that never leave your kids in the car (especially those of you with more than one) handle carrying small children AND the milk, eggs, mug of coffee or whatever? I really can't imagine going to a KT to get milk in the winter, unbuckling a 6 month old and 3 year old, putting on their winter gear. Carrying the baby, leading the toddler, going into the store, and grabbing a couple things, then getting them all back out to the car, taking off the winter gear, buckling them back in.... Plan better so you don't have to make that trip? Bad parent. Check.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 20, 2014 9:30:27 GMT -5
So, how do you people that never leave your kids in the car (especially those of you with more than one) handle carrying small children AND the milk, eggs, mug of coffee or whatever? I really can't imagine going to a KT to get milk in the winter, unbuckling a 6 month old and 3 year old, putting on their winter gear. Carrying the baby, leading the toddler, going into the store, and grabbing a couple things, then getting them all back out to the car, taking off the winter gear, buckling them back in.... I'm seriously not being a bitch here- I get that decisions have to be made. You can't get the gallon of milk on your way to pick your kids up from daycare? I guess if it was that big of a hassle for me to take my kids places I'd try to plan better. It's not even a matter of leaving the Boy in the car now. When I know I'm out of milk I'll pick a gallon up and throw it in the fridge at work during my lunch hour so I can grab it on my way home.
Muttley's is an extreme case (when she left the baby in the running car to get her paycheck). I understand her logic but I don't know if I would have made that same choice. I can't say what I would have done in that situation.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 20, 2014 9:34:33 GMT -5
MPL and Swamp live in the boondocks. I've not visited either of them but the smaller towns in Wisconsin that I drive though don't have a lot of choices for stores. I get what you're saying but the logistics of living in Milwaukee for me are a lot different than them.
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