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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 16:31:37 GMT -5
"Again I only have her side and I highly doubt it is 100% honest and true. And if I was that nosy buddy I would have called 911 the second she stepped away from the car and not bother with recording or waiting. I am not going to confront you and tell you how to parent but I am going to call the police on you and you can deal with them."
If she was confronted, the likelihood of her doing it again was high I think. But now, she will think twice before doing the same again.
"18% - child intentionally left in vehicle by adult (108)" "108/15years = 7.2 deaths a year in a 15 year period. So out of the millions of kids intentionally left alone in the car every year, death happens on average to 7 kids."
I understand what you are saying but what if your kid is 1 out of the 108 deaths in the next 15 years? How would you feel then? Would you not blame yourself?
I personally do not want to take that chance because it is not a risk I have to take. Yeah there are so many times it would be so much easier if I just left my son in the car for 5 minutes but being a parent is not about choosing the easy way. I guess I am judging, sorry.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 16:37:16 GMT -5
It wasn't my decision. Shit happens.
Again, that's not the point. Why the kids are here doesn't really matter. If you've got them, you've got them. And if you have more than one and that makes it harder to do quick errands, that sucks but it doesn't mean they should be left in the car. And I disagree.
I can see the van from the store window. It's locked. The kids are in their seats. It's freakin' cold out there. The kids are in their seats. I takes me 1 minute to buy milk. I'm leaving them there.
I also know that my car alarm will go off if it is unlocked from the inside or the doors are opened. Meaning as long as I am in hearing range of my car, I will immediately be alerted if a kid is deciding to exit for whatever reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 16:37:35 GMT -5
No, but trying to back up your point with a beyond far fetched and rather nonsensical point is just silly and detracts from whatever you're trying to say. Welp - I'm in the camp of when in doubt - call. I'm really not going to google up some stats, calculate probabilities, etc. Let the authorities figure it out. I have discharged my civic duty. Bingo... Again! You are free as a parent to take the risk and leave your kid in the car and I am free to pull out my phone and dial 911 when I notice a child left unattended in a car. Let's agree to disagree. As tbird said, I am not going to run the odds/ probabilities etc... I would let the pros aka cops handle it. Not judging, I just know that "I" would not feel at ease walking away and leaving the kid there.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 16:41:42 GMT -5
"Again I only have her side and I highly doubt it is 100% honest and true. And if I was that nosy buddy I would have called 911 the second she stepped away from the car and not bother with recording or waiting. I am not going to confront you and tell you how to parent but I am going to call the police on you and you can deal with them." If she was confronted, the likelihood of her doing it again was high I think. But now, she will think twice before doing the same again. "18% - child intentionally left in vehicle by adult (108)" "108/15years = 7.2 deaths a year in a 15 year period. So out of the millions of kids intentionally left alone in the car every year, death happens on average to 7 kids." I understand what you are saying but what if your kid is 1 out of the 108 deaths in the next 15 years? How would you feel then? Would you not blame yourself? I personally do not want to take that chance because it is not a risk I have to take. Yeah there are so many times it would be so much easier if I just left my son in the car for 5 minutes but being a parent is not about choosing the easy way. I guess I am judging, sorry. Judge away. I think you are being ridiculous. But whatever floats your boat. I don't see it as a safety issue. Considering my kids are now 4.5 and 1.5, odds are one or both of them wake up if they happen to be sleeping. Odds are one or both of them is talking to me if they are awake. I don't see the danger. I'm sorry, I don't. I don't even see the risk of someone calling the cops on me because I don't live around you are Firebird. I feel pretty confident on the one time a year that I leave my kids in the car unattended in the car that no one is going to call the cops on me. So, yeah I don't see the danger. Even the story of the kid in the minivan, I don't see the danger because I have a small SUV and my kids can't get out of their seat. Even though the kid was abducted 4 blocks from my BIL's house, I don't think it is more dangerous to let me kids play outside than it was before.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 16:43:26 GMT -5
I also know that my car alarm will go off if it is unlocked from the inside or the doors are opened. Meaning as long as I am in hearing range of my car, I will immediately be alerted if a kid is deciding to exit for whatever reason. what if they got something into their mouths and started chocking? Like what? Their books?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 16:43:42 GMT -5
You are free as a parent to take the risk and leave your kid in the car and I am free to pull out my phone and dial 911 when I notice a child left unattended in a car.
Exactly. If you're comfortable leaving your baby in the car, knock yourself out. But unattended babies = I call 911. It's not even a close call for me.
Again, if you're close enough to see your baby and you can get to me in time to stop me from calling the cops, I'll probably back off. Because then I know the baby really was being attended, and no harm done. But if no one comes out of the store (or whatever) to stop me from calling, I have no way of knowing if anyone knows that baby is out there. It's not about getting anyone in trouble, it's about making sure their baby is okay.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 16:43:51 GMT -5
"I'm not heartless, but unless it is warm and sunny (not even hot), then why are you getting involved? Sure, it takes a village, but it also takes some common sense. "
How would the person seeing a kid in the car know where the parent is? Personally, I would not take that risk. I would call 911 right away. The parent's conscious may be ok with it but mine wouldn't be if I saw a kid in a car and didn't do something. Of course, like Firebird said I am not talking about a gas station when you are pumping the gas next to the car.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 16:45:38 GMT -5
Well considering you said that you would immediately call the cops if you saw a baby in the car, apparently you do.
Calling the cops because I see an unattended baby in the car is not a judgment on their parenting. It's what I would do because I couldn't live with myself if I just skipped away happily and didn't concern myself with the welfare of that kid. What if the parent DID forget the kid in the car and it's slowly suffocating? How the heck do I know how long it's been there? I don't care WHY the kid is in the car, I don't care if they meant to do it. I care about making sure that kid doesn't die because I couldn't be bothered. ETA: Thank you, Beth ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) I just question the need to call the police immediately. You can't wait 2-5 minutes to see if someone comes back? Alternatively you could call the police, give a description of the car & location without a license plate & video of the parent walking off. That way you have done your civic duty to make sure the kid doesn't die, but also don't get some mom arrested if she gets back in 3 minutes before the police even arrive.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 16:46:18 GMT -5
Does anyone know how much discretion cops have in situations like this? For example, if someone called the cops because the baby was alone but the parent was right inside and got back out there before the cops arrived - do they have discretion about what to do next, or is there some sort of protocol?
Probably depends on the state, I'm guessing.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 16:49:02 GMT -5
Alternatively you could call the police, give a description of the car & location without a license plate & video of the parent walking off. That way you have done your civic duty to make sure the kid doesn't die, but also don't get some mom arrested if she gets back in 3 minutes before the police even arrive.
That's exactly what I would do - how is that different from calling the cops?
And how long am I supposed to wait? Suppose your "5 minute errand" turns into a 20 minute errand. Your baby is still fine and sleeping peacefully - but how do I know when you're coming back? It's not my job to wait around and see if someone comes back for the baby.
If I saw the parent walking off, I would go right up to them and suggest that they take their baby in with them, because if I saw their baby unattended without knowing where they were I would call the police. Which is what I think the bystander dude in the article should have done. I think it was pretty sleazy of him to film her walking off, call the cops, and slink away. Clearly his priority was getting her in trouble, not protecting the boy.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 16:49:48 GMT -5
I also know that my car alarm will go off if it is unlocked from the inside or the doors are opened. Meaning as long as I am in hearing range of my car, I will immediately be alerted if a kid is deciding to exit for whatever reason. what if they got something into their mouths and started chocking? That could happen when they are playing in the basement alone ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) or while I am outside mowing the lawn and they are inside playing or when they are in timeout in their rooms. I suppose it is always a possibility, but the likelihood of this occurring in the probably 20 minutes they have spent alone in the car in the past year is pretty small, especially when considering how much other time they spend without me in the same room.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 16:51:28 GMT -5
"Even the story of the kid in the minivan, I don't see the danger because I have a small SUV and my kids can't get out of their seat. Even though the kid was abducted 4 blocks from my BIL's house, I don't think it is more dangerous to let me kids play outside than it was before."
The busy body could have abducted the kid just as easily as he documented it. Comparing one situation to another is just a way for you to justify. The point is there is a way to reduce the risk without over doing things. I don't think I am being ridiculous to think a parent should not leave their kids unattended in a car. And if I see kids unattended in a car, I will call the cops. If it happens to be your kids I call the cops on and you hate me for it, at least my conscious would be clear.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 16:52:51 GMT -5
Alternatively you could call the police, give a description of the car & location without a license plate & video of the parent walking off. That way you have done your civic duty to make sure the kid doesn't die, but also don't get some mom arrested if she gets back in 3 minutes before the police even arrive.
That's exactly what I would do - how is that different from calling the cops? And how long am I supposed to wait? Suppose your "5 minute errand" turns into a 20 minute errand. Your baby is still fine and sleeping peacefully - but how do I know when you're coming back? It's not my job to wait around and see if someone comes back for the baby. If I saw the parent walking off, I would go right up to them and suggest that they take their baby in with them, because if I saw their baby unattended without knowing where they were I would call the police. Which is what I think the bystander dude in the article should have done. I think it was pretty sleazy of him to film her walking off, call the cops, and slink away. Clearly his priority was getting her in trouble, not protecting the boy. The person in the article was arrested because there was a license plate & video. She was gone before the police ever arrived on scene. IMO there is a big difference in reporting that there may be a problem just so the cops can check it out & providing enough information that the person will be arrested regardless of whether or not the baby is alone when they arrive.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 16:54:44 GMT -5
"Even the story of the kid in the minivan, I don't see the danger because I have a small SUV and my kids can't get out of their seat. Even though the kid was abducted 4 blocks from my BIL's house, I don't think it is more dangerous to let me kids play outside than it was before." The busy body could have abducted the kid just as easily as he documented it. Comparing one situation to another is just a way for you to justify. The point is there is a way to reduce the risk without over doing things. I don't think I am being ridiculous to think a parent should not leave their kids unattended in a car. And if I see kids unattended in a car, I will call the cops. If it happens to be your kids I call the cops on and you hate me for it, at least my conscious would be clear. Easily? Broken into the car and grabbed the kid out (presumably strapped in) and carried a kicking and screaming kid out of the car, mostly likely while the alarm was going off? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/rolleyes.gif)
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 16:55:52 GMT -5
Ok, question for Firebird @bunnysmom TheHaitian - Is there an age do you not call? FB was talking babies/infants and then refers back to the OP who was 4. What about the instance DQ was in - should the guy have called the cops on the kids even though he probably didn't think DQ was 4? If you see a teen sitting in a car, still a kid, call?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 17:00:24 GMT -5
"Easily? Broken into the car and grabbed the kid out (presumably strapped in) and carried a kicking and screaming kid out of the car, mostly likely while the alarm was going off?"
Which part would stop him? The alarm? People's car alarm goes off all the time, nobody bats an eye. Screaming kid? My kid sometimes screams when I am putting him or taking him our of the car, nobody bats an eye. Strapped in? yeah that will stop someone. It is easy to say oh I've done it several times and nothing has happened. But I bet some of the parents of those 108 kids who died in the 15 years had a similar attitude. Yeah 108 kids in 15 years is a small % probably of all the kids that were left unattended. But I personally don't think the 5-10-60 minutes I would save by leaving my kid in a car is worth the miniscule risk I would be taking unnecessarily.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 17:02:39 GMT -5
"Ok, question for Firebird bunnysmom cawiau - Is there an age do you not call? FB was talking babies/infants and then refers back to the OP who was 4. What about the instance DQ was in - should the guy have called the cops on the kids even though he probably didn't think DQ was 4? If you see a teen sitting in a car, still a kid, call?"
I wouldn't call if the kid look 7+ or maybe even 6. But a 4-year old, I would call. Most people have child locks activated and probably would leave their car locked if they are leaving their kid unattended and a 4-year old may not know how to open the locks in case something happened. In DQ's example, no, I would not call.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 17:03:13 GMT -5
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 17:06:00 GMT -5
Post babies, it's always a judgment call. I doubt I would call over a teenager.
Toddlers, I might call and I might not. It would be less likely the older they appeared, and would depend on other factors like the weather.
Again, the main reason I would call over babies over older children is because I now know how easy it is to forget you have a baby in the car with you. And if that happened to me, I HOPE someone would call the cops rather than just shrug and assume I was nearby somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 17:07:00 GMT -5
The article is talking about kids 12 and 9. I wouldn't call for 12 or 9 even if they were alone (one or the other I mean).
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 17:10:57 GMT -5
"Easily? Broken into the car and grabbed the kid out (presumably strapped in) and carried a kicking and screaming kid out of the car, mostly likely while the alarm was going off?" Which part would stop him? The alarm? People's car alarm goes off all the time, nobody bats an eye. Screaming kid? My kid sometimes screams when I am putting him or taking him our of the car, nobody bats an eye. Strapped in? yeah that will stop someone. It is easy to say oh I've done it several times and nothing has happened. But I bet some of the parents of those 108 kids who died in the 15 years had a similar attitude. Yeah 108 kids in 15 years is a small % probably of all the kids that were left unattended. But I personally don't think the 5-10-60 minutes I would save by leaving my kid in a car is worth the miniscule risk I would be taking unnecessarily. Except it isn't just the risk of leaving the car, you are weighing it against the risk of taking the kid out of the car. I keep going back to my example of the day of DH's surgery because that is the only one that sticks out in my mind. I don't think I ever did it with the kids in the last year. So in my mind (and I debated on the drive from the hospital to office), I was exhausted, DD was too. She fell asleep. I was hanging on by a thread. I thought about not getting my paycheck and realized I absolutely had to pay bills over the weekend and doing it the next day after picking DH up from the hospital wasn't a good alternative. So, I decided I had to do it then. Then it becomes, do I take her out of the car? If I take her out, do you I unstrap her or try to carry the car seat? At that point I didn't think I could pick the car seat up and carry it up the stairs to my office. So, I said ok, is it worth holding her and the time it takes to do that and how cold it was outside (and therefore it wasn't warm in the stairs up to my office) and decided it was better to run up to my office with her locked in the car. Anyway, my point is that it is weighing the risks against each other. Later when I stopped off at the gas station, it was the same, I really didn't think I could carry her. Now, did I have to have ice cream? No, but I knew by the end of the weekend I was going to be in hell and I needed something to soothe my nerves, then it became, ok when do I get the ice cream.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 17:12:35 GMT -5
![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) OMG never ever let our minors leave our site. Right? I mean better call if the kid is 16 and driving himself to school, he does look only 12 he can't be driving.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 17:13:09 GMT -5
Just because something else has more chance of hurting your child does not take away from the risk a parent would be taking when they leave their kid unattended in a car. So comparing is a poor way of justifying. One risk has no effect on the other one way or the other. Your kid plays outside unattended, yes there is a risk with that but that risk is independent of the risk you are taking by leaving your kid unattended in a car.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 17:15:30 GMT -5
"Again I only have her side and I highly doubt it is 100% honest and true. And if I was that nosy buddy I would have called 911 the second she stepped away from the car and not bother with recording or waiting. I am not going to confront you and tell you how to parent but I am going to call the police on you and you can deal with them." If she was confronted, the likelihood of her doing it again was high I think. But now, she will think twice before doing the same again. "18% - child intentionally left in vehicle by adult (108)" "108/15years = 7.2 deaths a year in a 15 year period. So out of the millions of kids intentionally left alone in the car every year, death happens on average to 7 kids." I understand what you are saying but what if your kid is 1 out of the 108 deaths in the next 15 years? How would you feel then? Would you not blame yourself? I personally do not want to take that chance because it is not a risk I have to take. Yeah there are so many times it would be so much easier if I just left my son in the car for 5 minutes but being a parent is not about choosing the easy way. I guess I am judging, sorry. Sorry, but we take risks every day. When the risk of something is super, ridiculously low, is it really reasonable to wonder how you would feel if it happened to your kid & act accordingly? I would feel horrible if a car ran up on the sidewalk & killed my kid & I'm sure that happens to a few kids every year. Doesn't mean I should keep my kid from walking on the sidewalk to protect them from something so unlikely to happen. Follow that logic and kids should never ride bikes, jump on tramps, swim, ride horses, be around dogs, etc. Life happens & you should protect from the big stuff & likely stuff, but to protect them from something that happens to 8 kids a year (who likely were intended to be left for a lot longer than 5 minutes) just seems over the top. I am guessing more kids die in school shootings each year, but we still send them off to school every day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 17:16:29 GMT -5
"Except it isn't just the risk of leaving the car, you are weighing it against the risk of taking the kid out of the car. I keep going back to my example of the day of DH's surgery because that is the only one that sticks out in my mind. I don't think I ever did it with the kids in the last year. So in my mind (and I debated on the drive from the hospital to office), I was exhausted, DD was too. She fell asleep. I was hanging on by a thread. I thought about not getting my paycheck and realized I absolutely had to pay bills over the weekend and doing it the next day after picking DH up from the hospital wasn't a good alternative. So, I decided I had to do it then. Then it becomes, do I take her out of the car? If I take her out, do you I unstrap her or try to carry the car seat? At that point I didn't think I could pick the car seat up and carry it up the stairs to my office. So, I said ok, is it worth holding her and the time it takes to do that and how cold it was outside (and therefore it wasn't warm in the stairs up to my office) and decided it was better to run up to my office with her locked in the car. Anyway, my point is that it is weighing the risks against each other. Later when I stopped off at the gas station, it was the same, I really didn't think I could carry her. Now, did I have to have ice cream? No, but I knew by the end of the weekend I was going to be in hell and I needed something to soothe my nerves, then it became, ok when do I get the ice cream. "
I understand your point. But only you know what you were thinking and doing. So if I was around and saw your baby in the car unattended, I would absolutely call the cops because I don't know that you just ran upstairs to pick up your paycheck and will be back within 5 minutes. if you are really back within 5 minutes, chances are you would catch me with the phone on my hand talking to 911 and it can be cleared up.
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 19, 2014 17:16:48 GMT -5
I'm not comfortable with it, but not because I could be arrested. Leaving kids in the car (not on hot days) is pretty commonplace around here. No one bats an eye. (Yelling at your kids that you're "going to beat [their] ass" in Wal-Mart is also pretty commonplace, but that's another thread.) But DD is already 30"/20 lbs at 6 months old. At some point soon I am going to be physically unable to carry her and/or drag her into a store if she's throwing a tantrum. So I'm not going to say I'll never leave her in the car while I make a quick trip into the gas station, because my track record on "I never"s is about 0-300 right now. But - on a hot day - any child/animal/creature in distress left in a car is fair game for me to call 911 and/or smash a window.That is how I would feel too (I only read a page or two back) because I'd rather err on the safe side on their behalf than assume it's a parent that was only gone a second and all is well. What if it's not a parent but a babysitter or teenaged sib who is supposed to be watching the kid. I'd wait around first though if I don't have an appointment. That's what I wondered about the person who called 911. Maybe they couldn't hang around or try to find the parent and didn't want to assume all was well and wanted to err on the child's side. Yeah, they were older but what if they were special needs? The possible death or brain damage is just not worth being indifferent IMO. But I live in steaming hot Florida where you feel you'll die just walking to the store from the parking lot. We always hear on the news about kids and pets roasting in a car so you can't help but feel you are doing the right thing by acting. If the parent is a responsible one then they should get a warning only. If it's a crack head or repeat offender then something should be done by the authorities. Also - for men - they can't have the child come out of the car and walk with them. They'd be accused of being a pedophile or something. Men have to go by different rules and I wonder if that was why he decided to call 911. Just a thought.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 17:17:32 GMT -5
"Ok, question for Firebird bunnysmom cawiau - Is there an age do you not call? FB was talking babies/infants and then refers back to the OP who was 4. What about the instance DQ was in - should the guy have called the cops on the kids even though he probably didn't think DQ was 4? If you see a teen sitting in a car, still a kid, call?" I wouldn't call if the kid look 7+ or maybe even 6. But a 4-year old, I would call. Most people have child locks activated and probably would leave their car locked if they are leaving their kid unattended and a 4-year old may not know how to open the locks in case something happened. In DQ's example, no, I would not call. I suppose every kid is different, but my 3 year old can unstrap herself & get out of the car just fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 17:18:43 GMT -5
"I suppose every kid is different, but my 3 year old can unstrap herself & get out of the car just fine. "
Ok, but YOU know that, I don't. So if I am around and see her unattended, I would call the cops. Besides, what you are saying is a different danger in itself. Your kid could just get out and get hit by a car, wander off, etc.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 18:06:55 GMT -5
But I live in steaming hot Florida where you feel you'll die just walking to the store from the parking lot Yeah, it is going to be really location/weather dependent as to whether or not it is ok to leave kids in the car. I found this interesting data: www.ggweather.com/heat/My state has only had 7 deaths in the 15 years, vs florida that has had 66. We just aren't that hot most of the time & have no humidity, so it does make sense. And I totally get what Mutt is saying about bad weather. I am terrified walking through ice while carrying the car seat (or the baby). And getting 3 kids out of a car when it is pouring ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) , everyone is soaked in that adventure.
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Post by cktc on Jun 19, 2014 18:11:22 GMT -5
Was I the only one aggravated by the errand?
A last minute rush for headphones? Don't they give out/sell these on the plane? If not, surely she could she have picked some up at the airport? The fact that she could play up the urgency of such a useless errand makes me question what other details were exaggerated or omitted.
In theory I agree that the charge is extreme, but I don't trust that she is entirely forthcoming, and I don't fault the citizen who reported it.
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