Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 14:12:53 GMT -5
First comment I read on the article, and I like how it puts things in perspective. Just gotta add that kids dying from anything is awful, but in the scheme of things that kill kids there are bigger threats that people treat as no big deal. The reason it is a big deal is because it is an "unnecessary death", something that could have easily been avoided. Take the kid out of the car with you if you are going inside to shop. How hard is that? Glad that double digits is nothing to that person, but that is still double digits that could have not happened and cod have been avoided. But everyone thinks it is not going to happen to them, not to their kids, not their family ... Till it does. I don't know, but would guess that most of those deaths were kids that were accidently left in the car. Like the dad did in the news today. Maybe some were the parent leaving the kid for a long period of time (because they are freaking moron). I would seriously doubt any of those were the type of stuff that we are talking about - a 5 minute errand. I haven't looked it up, but I am guessing in this age group kids are far, far (maybe even by a factor of 10) more likely to drown in their own swimming pool. I would certainly call that an unnecessary death, yet no one gets on people for having pools in their yard. ETA - Yay Mutt for not only looking up the statistics on car deaths, but doing it faster than I managed to assume that they were mostly accidental!
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 14:13:45 GMT -5
I love the teddy bear idea. That's clever.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 14:14:49 GMT -5
Intersting that all the people who post "Oh lordy, I would never leave my child in the car like that either do not have kids, or raised kids back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Those of us who have little kids are like, "Yeah, in a perfect world I wouldn't leave my kid alone but sometimes shit happens."
Would I leave my 6 and 8 year old alone going to target? No. Have I left them alone when going in to get a gallon of milk at the convenience store? Yes. When they were little, getting 2 kids out of car seats and attempting to corral them into the store was often a nightmare, or somebody was sleeping, or about to have a tantrum, or it was -40 and they kicked their boots off and threw their mittens in the back of the minivan. Exactly. Remember little kids aren't wearing coats in the car because then the car seat isn't safe - and statistically it is a whole lot more dangerous to drive with your kid not properly restrained than to leave them in the car for 5 minutes!
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 14:17:02 GMT -5
First comment I read on the article, and I like how it puts things in perspective. Just gotta add that kids dying from anything is awful, but in the scheme of things that kill kids there are bigger threats that people treat as no big deal. The reason it is a big deal is because it is an "unnecessary death", something that could have easily been avoided. Take the kid out of the car with you if you are going inside to shop. How hard is that? Glad that double digits is nothing to that person, but that is still double digits that could have not happened and cod have been avoided. But everyone thinks it is not going to happen to them, not to their kids, not their family ... Till it does. I dunno, but apparently not leaving your kid alone around a pool is a lot harder.
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Jun 19, 2014 14:19:20 GMT -5
I think I'm probably the exact opposite of you. I don't mind when my kids question, as long as it's done respectfully, because I want them to understand that there is a reason behind it. I actually don't think adults deserve automatically respect just because they are older. I want my kids to be able to question adults when they are being asses. I was being a bit condescending to my 6-year old and he said "Please don't talk to me like that" and, he was right and I deserved to have that pointed out.
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif)
We actively encourage DS to question us and the world around him. I want him to think for himself and not be a blind fool following the masses. We try to treat DS like as we call it at home "a full voting member of the family". Yes I'm sure I've made mistakes along the way. Have I given in to him? Sure- and usually if I relented on my argument with him it was usually because either he was right or he had a valid, well thought out counter-argument that made sense.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 19, 2014 14:21:19 GMT -5
And that is why I wouldn't do it at a place where you might be there a while - Walmart, a grocery store, the mall. But if you walk by a kid in the car at a gas station - do you think the kid has been there a while? Of course not, because no one stays at those places long. Daycare? The one time I had DD with me when I dropped DS off, I left her in the car. When I stopped at my office, I pulled right up next to the building, blocking the drive lane, it was obvious I was going to be in and out.
I would be curious to see what kind of store the mom ran into, if it was a place where she could park close to the door or if she was running into a Walmart/Target situation where there is a lot more space between the mom and the car. I don't do the Walmart, Target or grocery store either (except with the 12 year old) But the gas station I'm parked literally 5 feet from the door (most of the times), the front of the building is mostly glass and if I was ever in there 5 minutes that would be an extreme case. Normally it's 1-2 minutes. You just reminded me of an instance when we were coming home from somewhere (longish car ride) and I left the kids in the car so I could pee in peace. I don't remember exactly what the circumstances were but I do remember talking with the clerk about it while I paid. She didn't judge, she just agreed that sometimes you gotta do what you've gotta do.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 19, 2014 14:22:30 GMT -5
I love the teddy bear idea. That's clever. I can see my kids having fits because I won't give them the damn bear...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 26, 2024 3:29:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 14:22:36 GMT -5
When I was in grade school I had a friend and her baby brother was left in a car at a small strip mall like parking lot that started on fire and the baby died. I think another brother, older but still under 5 yrs old escaped. If I remember correctly the older brother was playing with the cig lighter. I have been searching the local archives trying to find the whole story but can't find it. I remember my parents telling me about it because I was friends with their sister but I'm sure the details were vague as I was young.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 14:23:05 GMT -5
I don't know 99% of the time I firm with my kids. I don't give in and I don't let them win the debate, but if I'm stressed to the max (and I would imagine getting ready to fly with 2 little kids would do that to a person), sometimes standing strong doesn't work. Sometimes I don't have that extra gear needed to stand firm. Sorry, I'm human. Just because someone caves once doesn't mean that it is a regular thing or something she is teaching her kids that they can win. I think I'm probably the exact opposite of you. I don't mind when my kids question, as long as it's done respectfully, because I want them to understand that there is a reason behind it. I actually don't think adults deserve automatically respect just because they are older. I want my kids to be able to question adults when they are being asses. I was being a bit condescending to my 6-year old and he said "Please don't talk to me like that" and, he was right and I deserved to have that pointed out. As for when it's stressful, I typically am a little more like a tyrant because I have little patience. That's when I cut off the questioning and tell them to do what I say. It works so well that I'm tempted to do it more It really depends. We explain to DS why we want things done and then we provide encouragement for him to go do it. He's been asking a lot when we get to Walmart for our weekly shopping trip to stay in the car and we explain that no, it isn't safe and then he starts crying "But it is safe". And one of us calmly gets him out of the car and sometimes carries him into the store. But if he pulls that when it is just me with both kids or both DH with both kids, we can't carry him and coral his 17 month old sister through the parking lot. Lately it is a lot of "I want this" and once we get him to ask nicely, then we negotiate for him to do something for what he wants. I'm probably not as much of a hardass as I think, but we do make DS clean his room everyday and make DD help pick up the living room every night.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 14:27:25 GMT -5
When I was in grade school I had a friend and her baby brother was left in a car at a small strip mall like parking lot that started on fire and the baby died. I think another brother, older but still under 5 yrs old escaped. If I remember correctly the older brother was playing with the cig lighter. I have been searching the local archives trying to find the whole story but can't find it. I remember my parents telling me about it because I was friends with their sister but I'm sure the details were vague as I was young.
That is so sad ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png) . And now I am really glad my car doesn't have a cigarette lighter.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 14:47:05 GMT -5
What's the deal with Target's policy of never paging customers? Anyone know the reasoning for that one? How do they find parents of kids who get lost in the store?
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Jun 19, 2014 14:50:57 GMT -5
This is true. If I've learned one thing in the last 7 months, it's that I will eventually end up doing every single one of the things I swore I'd never do before I had kids. Even at a very young age, they are little people with minds of their own. I don't feel qualified to say what I'd do with a 3-4yo, because I don't have one yet. And I think we do end up with selective recall once kids are grown and gone. My mom still talks about how easy and wonderful I was as a teen. I don't remember it quite the same way. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 26, 2024 3:29:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 14:51:28 GMT -5
What's the deal with Target's policy of never paging customers? Anyone know the reasoning for that one? How do they find parents of kids who get lost in the store? I know they page customers for that (or at least ours does). My older son was notorious for running away and hiding from me in stores and then having me paged. He seriously started this about age 2. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angry2.png)
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Jun 19, 2014 15:00:33 GMT -5
I forget exactly what it was my friend told me, but they do page for lost kids... I think the difference is whether something occurs inside or outside the store (our Target doesn't own the parking lot, so whatever happens out there is not their problem).
So stores like Wal-Mart that own their own parking lots probably wouldn't have this issue.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 15:04:14 GMT -5
If I've learned one thing in the last 7 months, it's that I will eventually end up doing every single one of the things I swore I'd never do before I had kids. Even at a very young age, they are little people with minds of their own. I don't feel qualified to say what I'd do with a 3-4yo, because I don't have one yet.
For me personally, knowing I could get arrested for leaving my kid in a car (and thinking about how much watching a parent get arrested could traumatize a little kid) is enough to tip the scales in favor of just bringing her in with me. Even if it's an extra hassle. Even if I know everything would be fine. Even if bringing her along will stretch a 2-3 minute errand out to 10 minutes or more.
Others might disagree, but I think the fact that we're becoming a society who looks out for children a little more is mostly a positive thing. Sure, it can result in misunderstandings and "overreactions" but on the other hand, if it encourages people to keep closer eyes on their kids in public places I can't call that a bad thing.
See, I know myself and I probably would leave Babybird in the car at 4 or 5 if there were zero risk of being spotted and arrested (and, obviously, if I considered the overall risk low enough, i.e. cool weather and short errand). And you know what? Something COULD happen to her. I'm kind of glad that there's the additional factor of "someone might see me and call the cops" to keep me in check.
That's just me though.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,404
|
Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 15:11:22 GMT -5
If I've learned one thing in the last 7 months, it's that I will eventually end up doing every single one of the things I swore I'd never do before I had kids. Even at a very young age, they are little people with minds of their own. I don't feel qualified to say what I'd do with a 3-4yo, because I don't have one yet.
For me personally, knowing I could get arrested for leaving my kid in a car (and thinking about how much watching a parent get arrested could traumatize a little kid) is enough to tip the scales in favor of just bringing her in with me. Even if it's an extra hassle. Even if I know everything would be fine. Even if bringing her along will stretch a 2-3 minute errand out to 10 minutes or more. Others might disagree, but I think the fact that we're becoming a society who looks out for children a little more is mostly a positive thing. Sure, it can result in misunderstandings and "overreactions" but on the other hand, if it encourages people to keep closer eyes on their kids in public places I can't call that a bad thing. See, I know myself and I probably would leave Babybird in the car at 4 or 5 if there were zero risk of being spotted and arrested (and, obviously, if I considered the overall risk low enough, i.e. cool weather and short errand). And you know what? Something COULD happen to her. I'm kind of glad that there's the additional factor of "someone might see me and call the cops" to keep me in check. That's just me though. Imagine having 2 babybirds 17 months apart, the older one wanders unless you have a hold of him and the other can't walk yet. It's -20, they kicked their boots off, and their coats aren't zipped because the car seat straps aren't tight enough with the coat zipped. Their mittens are no where to be seen. Damn right I'm leaving them in the car while I go get milk.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,501
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 19, 2014 15:14:38 GMT -5
Clearly Swamp needs to give her kids up to the YM orphanage. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 15:15:50 GMT -5
Imagine having 2 babybirds 17 months apart, the older one wanders unless you have a hold of him and the other can't walk yet.
Not to be glib, but there's a reason I don't have two Babybirds 17 months apart. Not knocking those who do, but a very humongous part of the reason we're waiting longer than originally planned for #2 (if it happens at all) is because one is all I can handle right now.
I'm not saying that it's bad to have kids close together but it's going to make things like shopping harder. That doesn't mean they should be left in the car.
(To me, leaving INFANTS in the car is not remotely debatable. I'd call the cops in a second if I ever saw an unattended baby in the car.)
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,404
|
Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 15:16:07 GMT -5
Clearly Swamp needs to give her kids up to the YM orphanage. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I'm giving them to you.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,404
|
Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 15:17:19 GMT -5
Imagine having 2 babybirds 17 months apart, the older one wanders unless you have a hold of him and the other can't walk yet. Not to be glib, but there's a reason I don't have two Babybirds 17 months apart. Not knocking those who do, but a very humongous part of the reason we're waiting longer than originally planned for #2 (if it happens at all) is because one is all I can handle right now. I'm not saying that it's bad to have kids close together but it's going to make things like shopping harder. That doesn't mean they should be left in the car. #2 was an accidental pregnancy. I was told I was infertile and had to go through fertility treatments to get pregnant for #1.
Why would I use birth control if I'm infertile?
And there are some people who have twins..............
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,501
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 19, 2014 15:18:06 GMT -5
Clearly Swamp needs to give her kids up to the YM orphanage. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I'm giving them to you. That's a bad idea because they're coming for my kid too. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 15:18:14 GMT -5
Again, I'm not knocking the decision to have two kids close together. I'm just saying that if you consider something wrong to do, it doesn't become less wrong just because it's harder not to do it.
If you're comfortable with leaving your kid in the car at 8-10 months and two years old, great. If you're not, then it shouldn't matter what else is going on - you just don't do it.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,404
|
Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 15:19:24 GMT -5
Again, I'm not knocking the decision to have two kids close together. It wasn't my decision. Shit happens.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 15:21:37 GMT -5
It wasn't my decision. Shit happens.
Again, that's not the point. Why the kids are here doesn't really matter. If you've got them, you've got them. And if you have more than one and that makes it harder to do quick errands, that sucks but it doesn't mean they should be left in the car.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,404
|
Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 15:23:11 GMT -5
It wasn't my decision. Shit happens.
Again, that's not the point. Why the kids are here doesn't really matter. If you've got them, you've got them. And if you have more than one and that makes it harder to do quick errands, that sucks but it doesn't mean they should be left in the car. And I disagree.
I can see the van from the store window. It's locked. The kids are in their seats. It's freakin' cold out there. The kids are in their seats. I takes me 1 minute to buy milk. I'm leaving them there.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Jun 19, 2014 15:25:06 GMT -5
There but for the grace of God... Swamp, my mom had my brother and sister 12 months apart. None of us can remember anything that happened between 1991-1993 or so. For all I know, there is a fourth sibling still strapped into a car seat out there. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png)
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,404
|
Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 15:25:59 GMT -5
There but for the grace of God... Swamp, my mom had my brother and sister 12 months apart. None of us can remember anything that happened between 1991-1993 or so. For all I know, there is a fourth sibling still strapped into a car seat out there. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png) Oh shit, I think I have a third kid!!!
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 15:26:13 GMT -5
If you're comfortable with that, then fine. Like I keep saying - it's all about a person's comfort level / risk tolerance.
For me personally, I'm saying that knowing I could be arrested for doing that tips the scale in favor of bringing her in with me. For you, it doesn't. That's fine - we all disagree on what's an acceptable level of risk tolerance when it comes to kids.
Like I said on the first page, a lot of people wouldn't be comfortable with leaving their 1.5 year old with a 12 year old sitter. My last thread proved that. But I am, and that's okay.
If I wasn't comfortable with doing that, though, it wouldn't suddenly become okay for me to do it just because I was in a tight spot. That's all I'm saying. You shouldn't bend your own ethical rules to fit the situation.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 15:28:44 GMT -5
Imagine having 2 babybirds 17 months apart, the older one wanders unless you have a hold of him and the other can't walk yet. Not to be glib, but there's a reason I don't have two Babybirds 17 months apart. Not knocking those who do, but a very humongous part of the reason we're waiting longer than originally planned for #2 (if it happens at all) is because one is all I can handle right now. I'm not saying that it's bad to have kids close together but it's going to make things like shopping harder. That doesn't mean they should be left in the car. ( To me, leaving INFANTS in the car is not remotely debatable. I'd call the cops in a second if I ever saw an unattended baby in the car.) Oh please. Babies in a car on a cold day are safer in the car for the 2 minutes, than trying to get them out of the car, properly attired for the weather and back into the car. They would be more at risk of getting frost bite while you wrestle getting them into their winter clothes. They are safer than a toddler that can get into crap (although my 4 year old still can't get out of his car seat).
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 19, 2014 15:30:04 GMT -5
If I've learned one thing in the last 7 months, it's that I will eventually end up doing every single one of the things I swore I'd never do before I had kids. Even at a very young age, they are little people with minds of their own. I don't feel qualified to say what I'd do with a 3-4yo, because I don't have one yet.
For me personally, knowing I could get arrested for leaving my kid in a car (and thinking about how much watching a parent get arrested could traumatize a little kid) is enough to tip the scales in favor of just bringing her in with me. Even if it's an extra hassle. Even if I know everything would be fine. Even if bringing her along will stretch a 2-3 minute errand out to 10 minutes or more. Others might disagree, but I think the fact that we're becoming a society who looks out for children a little more is mostly a positive thing. Sure, it can result in misunderstandings and "overreactions" but on the other hand, if it encourages people to keep closer eyes on their kids in public places I can't call that a bad thing. See, I know myself and I probably would leave Babybird in the car at 4 or 5 if there were zero risk of being spotted and arrested (and, obviously, if I considered the overall risk low enough, i.e. cool weather and short errand). And you know what? Something COULD happen to her. I'm kind of glad that there's the additional factor of "someone might see me and call the cops" to keep me in check. That's just me though. Imagine having 2 babybirds 17 months apart, the older one wanders unless you have a hold of him and the other can't walk yet. It's -20, they kicked their boots off, and their coats aren't zipped because the car seat straps aren't tight enough with the coat zipped. Their mittens are no where to be seen. Damn right I'm leaving them in the car while I go get milk. Mine are also 17 months apart. Both accidents. I had the joy of telling Keira, around the age of 2 and a few months, to stand "right HERE. Mommy's going to take the cart THERE (to the car, about 50-75 feet away) and I will be right back" against the wall at Target, while I hustled the cart, my purse, the diaperbag and Cabe to the car and then hustled back with Cabe to get her. I left the stuff in the cart. And when I got back (maybe 2-3 minutes) there was a lady heading towards Keira. I'm pretty sure she was going to say something other than what she did say (Is she yours, I was wondering if I should worry type comment) when she saw me coming back carting Cabe. I would have NEVER tried that with Cabe. He wouldn't have stayed where I put him, even for the little bit of time. Got both kids to the car, loaded them in and then the rest of the stuff. And to be honest, I think that was the LAST trip I took with both kids. But I had options that Swamp and others may or may not have. Sometimes there is no correct way, there's only getting on. But you have to know your kids too.
|
|