How about a self-defense shooing in a Wal-Mart? Sides?

[EVT1]

This is a little dated-but a big story in AZ:

What say you? 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

One person with a gun in a WalMart store. It happened in March (if you go by the date on the YouTube page - how is this still a big story in AZ?

[Deleted]

Which one got shot? The guy cutting in line?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

He wasn't cutting in line though - one guy was already at the CS counter, and the other guy moved up to a vacant CS counter space beside him.

He didn't barge his way in front of the other guy.

[simser]

What says me is that it's my grocery store. I mean that exact Walmart. The store is in a better area, but a couple miles away isn't so great.

And most people think there's more to the story than is reported in the news.

[Deleted]

Well, if he didn't barge in line, I wonder why the fight?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I watched it again - my bad - he did cut in front of the other guy in the black t-shirt waiting behind the woman at the counter. He "jumped the ropes" so to speak.

ETA: But that still doesn't justify what ensued afterward - and it's definitely not self-defense - there was no need for the man waiting in line to go ballistic like he did - over something so small or petty.

If it was me waiting in line, I probably would have just chalked it up to a person being an asshole and called it a day. Why look for trouble where there isn't any?




.

[EVT1]

Hard to say isn't it.  Kind of looks like the one guy invited the other outside to settle things and then reached for his gun.  Good chance he was attacked because of that.  No doubt he walks on this-but for the record had there not been a gun in the mix nobody would be dead.

Is that the kind of society we want?  Bunch of scared wimps blasting away at anyone?  Put up your dukes and fight like a man.  I will defend all day home defense with weapons, but this stand your ground bullshit has to go.  "I was in fear" blah blah blah,  Grow a pair.  Never in my life have I ever thought a fistfight was life threatening.  No gun in this case and it ends with a black eye.  Should have ended that way.

[Deleted]

Jun 1, 2014 5:27:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Hard to say isn't it.  Kind of looks like the one guy invited the other outside to settle things and then reached for his gun.  Good chance he was attacked because of that.  No doubt he walks on this-but for the record had there not been a gun in the mix nobody would be dead.

Is that the kind of society we want?  Bunch of scared wimps blasting away at anyone?  Put up your dukes and fight like a man.  I will defend all day home defense with weapons, but this stand your ground bullshit has to go.  "I was in fear" blah blah blah,  Grow a pair.  Never in my life have I ever thought a fistfight was life threatening.  No gun in this case and it ends with a black eye.  Should have ended that way.

SYG is here to stay. Throwing a punch at somebody can be fatal now. Looks like yet another dummy brought fists to a gun fight, with the usual result. You can now die attacking someone physically, best keep that temper under control.

[Deleted]

May 31, 2014 21:36:01 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

I watched it again - my bad - he did cut in front of the other guy in the black t-shirt waiting behind the woman at the counter. He "jumped the ropes" so to speak.

ETA: But that still doesn't justify what ensued afterward - and it's definitely not self-defense - there was no need for the man waiting in line to go ballistic like he did - over something so small or petty.

If it was me waiting in line, I probably would have just chalked it up to a person being an asshole and called it a day. Why look for trouble where there isn't any?




.

So, the guy waiting in line was the shooter?

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2014 12:24:33 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Jun 1, 2014 5:27:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Hard to say isn't it.  Kind of looks like the one guy invited the other outside to settle things and then reached for his gun.  Good chance he was attacked because of that.  No doubt he walks on this-but for the record had there not been a gun in the mix nobody would be dead.

Is that the kind of society we want?  Bunch of scared wimps blasting away at anyone?  Put up your dukes and fight like a man.  I will defend all day home defense with weapons, but this stand your ground bullshit has to go.  "I was in fear" blah blah blah,  Grow a pair.  Never in my life have I ever thought a fistfight was life threatening.  No gun in this case and it ends with a black eye.  Should have ended that way.

SYG is here to stay. Throwing a punch at somebody can be fatal now. Looks like yet another dummy brought fists to a gun fight, with the usual result. You can now die attacking someone physically, best keep that temper under control.

It's not the weapon, it's the temper that needs banning.

I don't understand why we are seeing so many guys with anger issues, these days.

Is it drugs, entitlement issues, what? 

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2014 12:31:46 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 2, 2014 12:24:33 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

SYG is here to stay. Throwing a punch at somebody can be fatal now. Looks like yet another dummy brought fists to a gun fight, with the usual result. You can now die attacking someone physically, best keep that temper under control.

It's not the weapon, it's the temper that needs banning.

I don't understand why we are seeing so many guys with anger issues, these days.

Is it drugs, entitlement issues, what? 

I wouldn't be surprised if it was drugs in this case. Your perception of reality would have to be distorted to think your going to get away with attacking someone who just showed you he has a gun. I mean Duh ! Can drugs make you stupid ? Case in point here. Well, either way, it's one less loser user, or one less out of control hothead that would probably end up killing some poor innocent family while driving.

[EVT1]

Jun 2, 2014 12:24:33 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Jun 1, 2014 5:27:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Hard to say isn't it.  Kind of looks like the one guy invited the other outside to settle things and then reached for his gun.  Good chance he was attacked because of that.  No doubt he walks on this-but for the record had there not been a gun in the mix nobody would be dead.

Is that the kind of society we want?  Bunch of scared wimps blasting away at anyone?  Put up your dukes and fight like a man.  I will defend all day home defense with weapons, but this stand your ground bullshit has to go.  "I was in fear" blah blah blah,  Grow a pair.  Never in my life have I ever thought a fistfight was life threatening.  No gun in this case and it ends with a black eye.  Should have ended that way.

SYG is here to stay. Throwing a punch at somebody can be fatal now. Looks like yet another dummy brought fists to a gun fight, with the usual result. You can now die attacking someone physically, best keep that temper under control.

Really- is there some rash of fatal fistfights I am unaware of? 

We are just going to have to disagree- I am sick of this bullshit that it is ok to just shoot unarmed people.  This wasn't some old lady in a dark alley at night- this was a young man in public with people all around.  His life was not in danger and he put countless other people at risk shooting in a busy store. 

Guess we will see what happens after the review- because tell me this- if you are just walking next to someone and arguing- and they reach for a gun- is it not your right to SYG?  How do you know the person that jumped him wasn't acting in self-defense?  You don't.  Even the video makes it hard to tell- looks like he reached for the gun before he was jumped, and looks like he invited the guy outside- maybe not beyond a reasonable doubt....  His ass would be grass in a lot of states- even Zimmerman took more of an ass kicking before he pussed out and shot his way out of a fight.  And of course again- we only get one side of the story. 

[EVT1]

Well - so we don't demonize the victim as tends to happen with shooting incidents:

No evidence of drugs, that he was a hothead, or a loser:

     Shirley, the widow, said she and her husband had stopped at the store so that Belinte Chee could grab some items he needed for a construction project he was starting in Kingman. 

     Belinte Chee was a mason by trade and by passion, she said. He was a regular competitor in local masonry competitions, including Arizona’s Fastest Trowel Competition, she said. He placed second in this year’s Mason Contractors Association of America’s Fastest Trowel on the Block Competition, representing Arizona.

     Belinte Chee and Shirley have three children, ages 15, 6 and 4.

     “My kids are hanging in there,” Shirley said. “They break down here and there, but they are hanging in there.”

So married 19 years with three children, gainfully employed, etc.  Sounds like someone out to commit a murder to me

www.azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/20140219chandler-walmart-shooting-widow-husband-died-protecting-me.html

Maybe he was on purple drank

[tallguy]

I am willing to go so far as to acknowledge that guns do not CAUSE problems in and of themselves.  The availability of a gun can certainly exacerbate a problem however.

I have always known that something would have to have gone drastically wrong in life for me to ever touch one.   But, no.  The fact that people have guns does not much bother me.  It is instead the fact that so many gutless little f**ks have guns that is the problem.  If gun ownership could be limited to only those people who don't think they need one, gun crime would be almost zero. 

[cme1201]

Jun 3, 2014 2:09:12 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I am willing to go so far as to acknowledge that guns do not CAUSE problems in and of themselves.  The availability of a gun can certainly exacerbate a problem however.

I have always known that something would have to have gone drastically wrong in life for me to ever touch one.   But, no.  The fact that people have guns does not much bother me.  It is instead the fact that so many gutless little f**ks have guns that is the problem.  If gun ownership could be limited to only those people who don't think they need one, gun crime would be almost zero. 

I am a member of the NRA

I am a firm proponent of the second amendment.

I believe that Open carry should be allowed in every state of the union.

I DO NOT own a gun.

I have had to use a weapon to kill a man who would have killed men I swore to protect.

If our society was more "Leave it to Beaver" and less "Menace to Society" then I would be all for limiting those who firearms are allowed to. As it stands anyone who passes the background can own a gun as it should be. If the police was more interested in following the home, vehicle and business break-ins stolen weapons would have a better chance of getting back into the hands of those who are legally able to have them and not those who will use them in the way they are used in Chicago.

[jkapp]

Jun 1, 2014 5:27:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Hard to say isn't it.  Kind of looks like the one guy invited the other outside to settle things and then reached for his gun.  Good chance he was attacked because of that.  No doubt he walks on this-but for the record had there not been a gun in the mix nobody would be dead.

Is that the kind of society we want?  Bunch of scared wimps blasting away at anyone?  Put up your dukes and fight like a man.  I will defend all day home defense with weapons, but this stand your ground bullshit has to go.  "I was in fear" blah blah blah,  Grow a pair.  Never in my life have I ever thought a fistfight was life threatening.  No gun in this case and it ends with a black eye.  Should have ended that way.

Well you can't really say that...people have died in the past from a simple punch/hit to the head. If you hit someone just right, they will be just as dead as if you'd shot them through the heart.

[billisonboard]

Jun 2, 2014 12:31:46 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

...

I don't understand why we are seeing so many guys with anger issues, these days.

Is it drugs, entitlement issues, what? 

The reason you are seeing it more these days is the availability of video on the Internet.

[EVT1]

Jun 3, 2014 7:57:41 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Jun 1, 2014 5:27:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Hard to say isn't it.  Kind of looks like the one guy invited the other outside to settle things and then reached for his gun.  Good chance he was attacked because of that.  No doubt he walks on this-but for the record had there not been a gun in the mix nobody would be dead.

Is that the kind of society we want?  Bunch of scared wimps blasting away at anyone?  Put up your dukes and fight like a man.  I will defend all day home defense with weapons, but this stand your ground bullshit has to go.  "I was in fear" blah blah blah,  Grow a pair.  Never in my life have I ever thought a fistfight was life threatening.  No gun in this case and it ends with a black eye.  Should have ended that way.

Well you can't really say that...people have died in the past from a simple punch/hit to the head. If you hit someone just right, they will be just as dead as if you'd shot them through the heart.

Well OK Mr. technical- there is a 99.99% no one would be dead.

I can't wait for the NRA to get their way and 18yo's get to be armed at school- should make after school fights way more interesting.  

[zibazinski]

Emotional much?

[Deleted]

Jun 3, 2014 8:01:49 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 2, 2014 12:31:46 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

...

I don't understand why we are seeing so many guys with anger issues, these days.

Is it drugs, entitlement issues, what? 

The reason you are seeing it more these days is the availability of video on the Internet.

Yes. The attention deprived idiots have always been out there, I suppose, only now they have access to an audience.

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2014 21:45:24 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Jun 2, 2014 12:24:33 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

SYG is here to stay. Throwing a punch at somebody can be fatal now. Looks like yet another dummy brought fists to a gun fight, with the usual result. You can now die attacking someone physically, best keep that temper under control.

Really- is there some rash of fatal fistfights I am unaware of? 

We are just going to have to disagree- I am sick of this bullshit that it is ok to just shoot unarmed people.  This wasn't some old lady in a dark alley at night- this was a young man in public with people all around.  His life was not in danger and he put countless other people at risk shooting in a busy store. 

Guess we will see what happens after the review- because tell me this- if you are just walking next to someone and arguing- and they reach for a gun- is it not your right to SYG?  How do you know the person that jumped him wasn't acting in self-defense?  You don't.  Even the video makes it hard to tell- looks like he reached for the gun before he was jumped, and looks like he invited the guy outside- maybe not beyond a reasonable doubt....  His ass would be grass in a lot of states- even Zimmerman took more of an ass kicking before he pussed out and shot his way out of a fight.  And of course again- we only get one side of the story. 

You use a lot of hypothetical situations as comparisons to actual situations. That is only showing your ability at creative story telling. It's like saying... What if the unarmed victim was a 10th degree black belt and was ready to kill the gunman? I have little interest in that type of nonsense. I still stand by my temper statement. The 98 pound weakling is on equal footing with the king of muscle beach, best get used to it. SYG is especially important to women who tend to be smaller in stature on an average than males.