Pot brownies in TX- 5 to life?!?!

[EVT1]

Holy crap! I wonder what the normal sentences are running:

www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0520/Pot-brownies-could-get-teenager-life-in-prison

And we wonder why our jails are bursting at the seams. Go drug war!

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Stupid law - this kid (for a first offense) (possession) should get 1 yr probation.

Even the min 5 years seems extreme. I guess Tx figures it's better to send someone (who's barely more than a minor) to prison, where they have a good chance of becoming a "hardened" criminal upon release, than to give them a minimum charge - and a chance to straighten up and fly right.

[Virgil Showlion]

It says the penalties are so harsh because he was using hash oil, which is apparently a much more potent drug than marijuana.

1 year probation is nothing. The kid would blow it off.

6 months in jail and an additional year probation would be more reasonable. 5 years is excessive.

[djAdvocate]

May 20, 2014 16:39:20 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Holy crap! I wonder what the normal sentences are running:

www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0520/Pot-brownies-could-get-teenager-life-in-prison

And we wonder why our jails are bursting at the seams. Go drug war!

pot and all of it's derivatives should be as legal as alcohol, a drug with infinitely more chronic health issues and addictive potential.

half of our DEA budget is spent on pot.  if we just stopped spending it there, and spent it elsewhere (or CUT IT), that would be best for everyone.

edit: i could have taken a jab at Texas, but it is probably not much better in many states.

[Deleted]

When a person uses controlled substances they should check for the penalties of such use beforehand.   Getting caught is an after the fact situation.  ( 117 mph on your radar gun officer?  Gee, I didn't see the 35 mph limit sign. )  I feel nothing for self inflicted stupidity. 

[swamp]

The prosecutor is a moron. He can reduce the charges, and he should. You don't send a first time offender to prison who didn't hurt anyone, all it does is make them a better criminal.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2014 7:49:19 GMT -5 swamp said:

The prosecutor is a moron. He can reduce the charges, and he should. You don't send a first time offender to prison who didn't hurt anyone, all it does is make them a better criminal.

The prosecutor should have made use of the knowledge expanding properties of THC.  Then he would of seen it was not a bad thing to use hash oil.  A light slap on the wrist and send the kid on his way.  Rule of law doesn't mean anything. 

[zibazinski]

Letting murderers and rapists out of jail for drug users to be in seems stupid to me.

[djAdvocate]

May 21, 2014 8:08:13 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

May 21, 2014 7:49:19 GMT -5 swamp said:

The prosecutor is a moron. He can reduce the charges, and he should. You don't send a first time offender to prison who didn't hurt anyone, all it does is make them a better criminal.

The prosecutor should have made use of the knowledge expanding properties of THC.  Then he would of seen it was not a bad thing to use hash oil.  A light slap on the wrist and send the kid on his way.  Rule of law doesn't mean anything. 

when the law itself is unjust, i feel no compunction to obey it.  if i get caught for that, sobeit.  but that doesn't make the law just.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2014 10:12:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 21, 2014 8:08:13 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

The prosecutor should have made use of the knowledge expanding properties of THC.  Then he would of seen it was not a bad thing to use hash oil.  A light slap on the wrist and send the kid on his way.  Rule of law doesn't mean anything. 

when the law itself is unjust, i feel no compunction to obey it.  if i get caught for that, sobeit.  but that doesn't make the law just.

So is it like a self rule thing for you ? You only follow the ones you feel are just ?

[djAdvocate]

May 21, 2014 11:15:31 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

May 21, 2014 10:12:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

when the law itself is unjust, i feel no compunction to obey it.  if i get caught for that, sobeit.  but that doesn't make the law just.

So is it like a self rule thing for you ? You only follow the ones you feel are just ?

you make it seem like it is just me.  it isn't.  civil disobedience is common, jma.  it is how things change.

but if you want to tow the line for unjust laws, be my guest.    

[Deleted]

May 21, 2014 11:22:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 21, 2014 11:15:31 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

So is it like a self rule thing for you ? You only follow the ones you feel are just ?

you make it seem like it is just me.  it isn't.  civil disobedience is common, jma.  it is how things change.

but if you want to tow the line for unjust laws, be my guest.    

As long as your educated in the possible consequences of your actions, you will do as you like. Don't end up like the hash oil kid in Texas. Since I don't do recreational drugs, I really have no stance on the drug war. Battle on if you want.

[djAdvocate]

May 21, 2014 11:45:08 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

May 21, 2014 11:22:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you make it seem like it is just me.  it isn't.  civil disobedience is common, jma.  it is how things change.

but if you want to tow the line for unjust laws, be my guest.    

As long as your educated in the possible consequences of your actions, you will do as you like.

do you mean LEGAL consequences?  because the laws i choose to disobey have no consequences to society at large.  i am well aware of the legal consequences, i just choose to ignore them.

Don't end up like the hash oil kid in Texas. Since I don't do recreational drugs, I really have no stance on the drug war. Battle on if you want.

ty

[Deleted]

May 21, 2014 12:00:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 21, 2014 11:45:08 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

As long as your educated in the possible consequences of your actions, you will do as you like.

do you mean LEGAL consequences?  because the laws i choose to disobey have no consequences to society at large.  i am well aware of the legal consequences, i just choose to ignore them.

Don't end up like the hash oil kid in Texas. Since I don't do recreational drugs, I really have no stance on the drug war. Battle on if you want.

ty

Yes, legal. Why did you put "ty" at the bottom ?

[The Captain]

According to this article Hash oil contains about 75% THC.

www.kcra.com/news/teens-smoking-highly-potent-dabs-or-earwax-with-ecigarettes/24434310

The average amount in THC is a joint today is 13%, up from less than 1% in the early 70's.

www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/health/weed-potency-levels/

We're not talking about hippy brownies here folks.  Of course the Dad is trying to put a positive spin on this, but the potency of some of this stuff is much higher than anything we (or at least I) would have ever contemplated.  There is likely a reason the charges are framed the way they are.

[EVT1]

Of course there is- because it is a ridiculous and outdated law from the failed drug war.

So what's the super brownies going to do that a few joints will not?  An extra slice of pizza or maybe they just take a nap....What a bullshit distinction for the law to make.

When people illegally drink it doesn't matter if it is a beer or whisky does it?

[Virgil Showlion]

May 21, 2014 15:20:15 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Of course there is- because it is a ridiculous and outdated law from the failed drug war.

So what's the super brownies going to do that a few joints will not?  An extra slice of pizza or maybe they just take a nap....What a bullshit distinction for the law to make.

When people illegally drink it doesn't matter if it is a beer or whisky does it?

Moonshine is illegal in most places. You could use that as an analogy.

[justme]

The illegal part of moonshine is making your own - so it doesn't go through government regulators/taxes. Ya know, all those people dying and going blind and stuff during prohibition.

There's plenty of legal moonshine out. There's several bars near me that sell it. One has an apple pie version that is super delicious. 

[djAdvocate]

May 21, 2014 12:29:10 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

May 21, 2014 12:00:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

ty

Yes, legal. Why did you put "ty" at the bottom ?

i was thanking you for suggesting that i battle on.

i shall.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 21, 2014 16:48:37 GMT -5 justme said:

The illegal part of moonshine is making your own - so it doesn't go through government regulators/taxes. Ya know, all those people dying and going blind and stuff during prohibition.

There's plenty of legal moonshine out. There's several bars near me that sell it. One has an apple pie version that is super delicious. 

Ah.

I stand corrected then.

[djAdvocate]

May 21, 2014 12:46:07 GMT -5 The Captain said:

According to this article Hash oil contains about 75% THC.

www.kcra.com/news/teens-smoking-highly-potent-dabs-or-earwax-with-ecigarettes/24434310

The average amount in THC is a joint today is 13%, up from less than 1% in the early 70's.

www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/health/weed-potency-levels/

We're not talking about hippy brownies here folks. 

yes, we are.  leaf sucks for brownies.  tastes like s*&t.

if it is 6x as potent, you can use 1/6th the quantity.

does that not make sense?

[Virgil Showlion]

May 21, 2014 16:55:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 21, 2014 12:46:07 GMT -5 The Captain said:

According to this article Hash oil contains about 75% THC.

www.kcra.com/news/teens-smoking-highly-potent-dabs-or-earwax-with-ecigarettes/24434310

The average amount in THC is a joint today is 13%, up from less than 1% in the early 70's.

www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/health/weed-potency-levels/

We're not talking about hippy brownies here folks. 

yes, we are.  leaf sucks for brownies.  tastes like s*&t.

if it is 6x as potent, you can use 1/6th the quantity.

does that not make sense?

Don't drug penalties go up significantly as a function of the amount of drug seized?

In which case, if 1 pound of hash oil is (chemically) equivalent to 6 pounds of dried marijuana, and equivalent to > 75 pounds of of 1970's dried marijuana, wouldn't it therefore make sense to assign them the same penalty?

If we assume that

penalty (is proportional to) damage (is proportional to) potency (times) quantity

then this scheme makes sense.

[The Captain]

May 21, 2014 16:55:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 21, 2014 12:46:07 GMT -5 The Captain said:

According to this article Hash oil contains about 75% THC.

www.kcra.com/news/teens-smoking-highly-potent-dabs-or-earwax-with-ecigarettes/24434310

The average amount in THC is a joint today is 13%, up from less than 1% in the early 70's.

www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/health/weed-potency-levels/

We're not talking about hippy brownies here folks. 

yes, we are.  leaf sucks for brownies.  tastes like s*&t.

if it is 6x as potent, you can use 1/6th the quantity.

does that not make sense?

Yes DJ, I perfectly capable of doing simple math.  As, I assume, are you - such as with a limited volume it's easy to take something that's 6x as potent and make "brownies" that contain 36x the THC.  Does that make sense?

However since the article was (as usual) very scarce on actual facts both of our examples are pure conjecture.  

[djAdvocate]

May 21, 2014 18:06:00 GMT -5 The Captain said:

May 21, 2014 16:55:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

yes, we are.  leaf sucks for brownies.  tastes like s*&t.

if it is 6x as potent, you can use 1/6th the quantity.

does that not make sense?

Yes DJ, I perfectly capable of doing simple math.  As, I assume, are you - such as with a limited volume it's easy to take something that's 6x as potent and make "brownies" that contain 36x the THC.  Does that make sense?

not really.  nobody would make a brownie that potent, ime.  it is like drinking bourbon as if it were beer.

However since the article was (as usual) very scarce on actual facts both of our examples are pure conjecture.  

indeed.  i am relying mostly on common sense.  forgive me for that. 

[EVT1]

Y- you can only get so high.

Putting hash oil in a different category is bullshit- just like the crack/cocaine distinction was bullshit.

There is an amount that equals personal use and then multiple of which is intent to sell, etc.  I think he was selling these brownies to his friends- not a smart move.  Much better to take up a collection before baking

But ridiculous pot laws aside- it is TX and that area from what I read is tough on weed- he should have known there would be some trouble and he is going to have to pay for it- BUT 5 to life is so alarmingly stupid- and life should not even be an option.

I hope the proper people use the proper discretion on this and do not wreck his life- we have enough real criminals that need a place to stay.

Wasn't it also TX where Richie Rich mowed down all those people drunk and got himself put in a nice rehab spa and resort?  I guess this kid's parents are too poor to argue affluenza so off to jail he goes   

[Virgil Showlion]

I don't understand the mentality of these people.

You'd think any individual with two brain cells to rub together would take a few moments to contemplate the risks versus the rewards. Rewards: get a nice buzz from eating brownies. Risks: Rot in prison for 5 years... or for 20 if the judge is in a bad mood.

Once more, let's review...

Rewards: get a buzz.
Risks: rot in prison for life.

And one last time just in case.

Rewards: buzz
Risks: life in prison

Duhhh. I'm gunna bake me sum pot brownies.
Duhhh. I'm gunna stick muh fork in this toaster ta get muh toast unstuck.

I know five years is excessive, but it's really challenging to feel sorry for people with stick-a-fork-in-a-toaster poor risk assessment.

[EVT1]

May 21, 2014 21:29:09 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I don't understand the mentality of these people.

You'd think any individual with two brain cells to rub together would take a few moments to contemplate the risks versus the rewards. Rewards: get a nice buzz from eating brownies. Risks: Rot in prison for 5 years... or for 20 if the judge is in a bad mood.

Once more, let's review...

Rewards: get a buzz.
Risks: rot in prison for life.

And one last time just in case.

Rewards: buzz
Risks: life in prison

Duhhh. I'm gunna bake me sum pot brownies.
Duhhh. I'm gunna stick muh fork in this toaster ta get muh toast unstuck.

I know five years is excessive, but it's really challenging to feel sorry for people with stick-a-fork-in-a-toaster poor risk assessment.

19yo stoners are probably not that up on the law. 

When I was 19 I was doing dumb shit and had no idea what the real consequences would be had I been caught- I never considered getting caught.  So the risk/reward evaluation never happens.

One small example- I used to go mushroom picking now and then at the crack of dawn- not for spaghetti or pizzas either.  There was trespassing, possession, intent to sell or deliver, etc.  No telling how bad it would have been if I was caught- didn't even consider it.

Yet- I was in school, had a job, and wound up a tax paying citizen that grew out of it.  You have to at least give the kid a shot- not saying no consequences-but let's be reasonable. 

I really see no difference whether some teenager is busted with beer or weed other than how society deals with it, and time after time it is the alcohol that does all of the real damage.  I knew a lot of stoners in HS- I was a stoner in HS- and know what- the only people I remember that died during that time were due to drunk driving- either they were driving stupid or they got hit by someone else driving stupid.  Don't recall a 5-life penalty for vehicular homicide- hence Richie Rich with his numerous corpses will never face real consequences. I will give one concession on that- the rich kid was a juvenile- but the reality stinks just as bad as it would had he been 19.

 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Y

- you can only get so high

Putting hash oil in a different category is bullshit- just like the crack/cocaine distinction was

I call "bull" on that. Organicallly grown marijuana has far less effect ( or danger) than hash oil - (which is concentrated).

Crack is also more potent than cocaine.

All four of the above should be avoided at all costs. (Marijuana has more chmeicals in it today than it did "in the 60's" when it was merely grown as a plant and dried to smoke. Times have changed, and drug dealers are learning new techniques every day to "enhance" their product.

And there's always a junkie or addict willing to pay (sad as it is.)

[Virgil Showlion]

When I was 19 I was doing dumb shit and had no idea what the real consequences would be had I been caught- I never considered getting caught. So the risk/reward evaluation never happens.

I know.

I just don't understand how you can make it all the way to 19 and still "risk/reward evaluation never happens".

Granted, we grew up in different eras (or at least I assume so). When I was going to school in the 90's, they bombarded us with anti-drug messages using everything from Sesame Street to in-school meetings with ex- drug addicts. The term "bombarded" isn't an exaggeration. I wouldn't be surprised if we totaled more than 100 hours in anti-drug and anti-smoking education.

Don't drink and drive. Don't use drugs. Practice safe sex.

Again and again.

And yet something like 95% (something in this ballpark) of Canadians report having used drugs at or before age 17, and some frightening percentage report having driven while intoxicated, and another frightening percentage report having had unprotected sex by age 16.

What's even more astonishing is this same 95% that couldn't give a rat's fanny about 100 hours of anti-drug education (and just as many hours of STD/pregnancy education) are the people that line up for yearly flu shots and antibacterial hand soaps and triple-filtered milk as though their lives depended on it. Like they hit age thirty and something in their brains flips from "I am immortal" to "will... die... if... germs... touch... me..."

Anyway...

[EVT1]

May 21, 2014 23:01:59 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

When I was 19 I was doing dumb shit and had no idea what the real consequences would be had I been caught- I never considered getting caught. So the risk/reward evaluation never happens.

I know.

I just don't understand how you can make it all the way to 19 and still "risk/reward evaluation never happens".

Granted, we grew up in different eras (or at least I assume so). When I was going to school in the 90's, they bombarded us with anti-drug messages using everything from Sesame Street to in-school meetings with ex- drug addicts. The term "bombarded" isn't an exaggeration. I wouldn't be surprised if we totaled more than 100 hours in anti-drug and anti-smoking education.

Don't drink and drive. Don't use drugs. Practice safe sex.

Again and again.

And yet something like 95% (something in this ballpark) of Canadians report having used drugs at or before age 17, and some frightening percentage report having driven while intoxicated, and another frightening percentage report having had unprotected sex by age 16.

What's even more astonishing is this same 95% that couldn't give a rat's fanny about 100 hours of anti-drug education (and just as many hours of STD/pregnancy education) are the people that line up for yearly flu shots and antibacterial hand soaps and triple-filtered milk as though their lives depended on it. Like they hit age thirty and something in their brains flips from "I am immortal" to "will... die... if... germs... touch... me..."

Anyway...

I moved out of my parents house at 18 and had an apartment with roomates- at the time the freedom to do drugs and have keg parties made sense.

I smoked a lot of pot, I smoked cigarettes, cigars, I did acid, mushrooms, opium and everything else I could get my hands on-had a good time- but I do nothing now- other than a few good beers. 

And the scary part for you- many of my old friends are in all of the jobs that are supposed to screen out ex-drug users.  They do not.  I was going to be a police officer for a bit and backed out- went to law school.  And now I want nothing to do with it.