Should Bullying be a Crime?

[Phoenix84]

Interesting article. Carson, a suburb of Los Angeles is looking to make bullying a misdemeanor. Anyone charged with bullying could face up to one year in prison, and it would require parents to appear in juvenile court and hold them partly responsible for the actions of their kids.

Oh, and the measure affects kids and "young adults" up to age 25 for some reason.

news.msn.com/crime-justice/california-city-aims-to-fight-bullying-by-criminalizing-it

So, do you agree with this approach to bullying?  How would you feel if your kid was charged with a crime for calling another kid a name, and was summoned to court because of it?

[Phoenix84]

I think it's stupid and goes too far. It'll waste the time of sheriff's deputies, parents, and the court system. I guess I just don't see how bullying could not be handled through parents and the normal school discipline system. What does this really accomplish?

And going up to age 25 is beyond crazy. Seems strange that adolescence is now being extended to the mid 20's in recent legislation. I thought you were an adult at 18, but apparently that isn't the case anymore. I don't think bullying can really apply to adults. When you're an adult, you should be able to have the maturity and power to cut bullies out of your life, at least if they're not related to you.

While I'm not a big fan of bullying, I don't like the recent trends to overcompensate in the other direction, and I especially don't like the recent trend of adults claiming to be bullied.  I guess it's too much to ask for people to adopt a "sticks and stones" approach to life.  There are jackasses out there, deal with it.

[truthbound]

No it shouldn't.

[Deleted]

We'll, in psychology terms, that is young adulthood, and I guess as long as high school and college kids still kill themselves due to bullying, or attack others themselves, I guess they feel current efforts by parents and schools aren't working 

[yogiii]

Bullies come in all ages.  Let's lock all of them up!

[Deleted]

What other things are misdemeanors? 

Could ld bullying be handled under libel, harassment, assault, etc existing laws? 

[yogiii]

I would think that extensive bullying would be considered harassment.  I guess that's the problem, bullying can vary quite a bit.  I will say this, I'm glad social media did not exist when I was in high school.

[zibazinski]

Me, too. I was bullied plenty. I never even told my parents but I certainly, even though I had access, even thought of killing my tormentors. Funny enough, they all turned out lousy and I turned out great. Living well IS the best revenge!!

[zibazinski]

Ever thought. The thought never ever crossed my mind. Seems like its the boys who have the "killer" trait.

[happyhoix]

My problem is that bullying isn't often a straight forward case of several kids picking on one other kid. I read about a girl that committed suicide a few years back. The media response was to paint her as a poor victim and the other kids as horrible people. However, this reporter spent a lot of time interviewing the kids and families and teachers, and researching the background of the kid that committed suicide, and found that the dead girl had herself been a bully at a previous school, and had ultimately been kicked out. She had attempted suicide before. She was living with her dad and moved far away to live with her mom and start fresh at a new school, but she fell into the old patterns. She liked to 'steal' boyfriends away from other girls and then brag about it. She posted as many nasty comments on social media as the other kids. She slept with the BF of one of the popular girls, then the BF turned on her and made some nasty comments about her, too, and the girl killed herself.

To me, it wasn't a clear cut case of several kids picking on another one. It was a pack of nasty kids being mean to each other, all of them trying to be the 'popular' kids, and then one of them, who already had mental health issues, killed herself. I don't think, in those cases, punishing the surviving kids for doing what the dead child did, too, is really useful.

IMHO if we could keep kids off social media, we should do that, but that's not likely to happen.

[zibazinski]

There's always two sides. Look how people jumped on the motorist who ran into the kids at night for suing the parents of the kid who died. Story then comes out that kids were riding in the street, at night, no lights or reflective clothing, in the rain, at 1:30 am. Different spin entirely.

[MarleyKeezy78]

I got bullied plenty in school, one was my old best friend, she tormented me so bad I didn't want to go to school anymore. We got past it, and as adults we are even FB friends. Not the same for everyone but it never got physical or anything just hurtful words. I think if it gets physical then yes charge them because now a days kids can be brutal.

[muttleynfelix]

I think there are aspects of bullying that are already a crime - harassment, stalking, etc.  I don't think we need to label bullying a crime, I think if it is extensive it will fall under something that is already a crime and should be prosecuted that way. 

[swamp]

May 8, 2014 8:59:38 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

I think there are aspects of bullying that are already a crime - harassment, stalking, etc.  I don't think we need to label bullying a crime, I think if it is extensive it will fall under something that is already a crime and should be prosecuted that way. 

It seems we are trying to legislate people to be nice.   You're free to be an ass, and sometimes you will get your feelings hurt.   That's life. 

[Deleted]

May 8, 2014 2:19:42 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think it's stupid and goes too far. It'll waste the time of sheriff's deputies, parents, and the court system. I guess I just don't see how bullying could not be handled through parents and the normal school discipline system. What does this really accomplish?

And going up to age 25 is beyond crazy. Seems strange that adolescence is now being extended to the mid 20's in recent legislation. I thought you were an adult at 18, but apparently that isn't the case anymore. I don't think bullying can really apply to adults. When you're an adult, you should be able to have the maturity and power to cut bullies out of your life, at least if they're not related to you.

While I'm not a big fan of bullying, I don't like the recent trends to overcompensate in the other direction, and I especially don't like the recent trend of adults claiming to be bullied.  I guess it's too much to ask for people to adopt a "sticks and stones" approach to life.  There are jackasses out there, deal with it.

what happens when the parents don't do anything about it or the schools just look the other way?

[genericname]

May 8, 2014 9:02:58 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 8, 2014 8:59:38 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

I think there are aspects of bullying that are already a crime - harassment, stalking, etc.  I don't think we need to label bullying a crime, I think if it is extensive it will fall under something that is already a crime and should be prosecuted that way. 

It seems we are trying to legislate people to be nice.   You're free to be an ass, and sometimes you will get your feelings hurt.   That's life. 

EXACTLY

I was fine in elementary school, didn't notice any problems. Boom, Jr. High and suddenly I was persona non grata with the group of friends I had before, who turned into the "popular" girls (really, they were the ones with boobs and makeup. I was a "late bloomer"). I put up with a lot of teasing, harassing, just general crap from these girls for half the school year. I was practicing what my parents told me: just ignore it. Finally, one day I got fed up. I was riding my bike past the "ringleader's" house and she was yapping, as usual, making herself look like the badass in front of all of her sheeple friends. I stopped and told her to shut up, I was tired of her crap. We argued for a minute, then she said (and I quote), "Go ahead and hit me then." So I kicked her ass five ways to Sunday. My big brother taught me well. No one bothered me in school again. Ever.

Moral of the story: Ignore it, or don't, but deal with your problems before they fester into mountains when they were really just molehills. A few scratches and a busted lip are worth standing up for yourself.

I'm sure that nowadays the girl's mom would have pressed charges on me and all of that, but back then all she did was call my dad, and then she read me the riot act one day when we crossed paths a few weeks later. My dad punished me, but it was worth it.

[swamp]

May 8, 2014 9:11:00 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

May 8, 2014 2:19:42 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think it's stupid and goes too far. It'll waste the time of sheriff's deputies, parents, and the court system. I guess I just don't see how bullying could not be handled through parents and the normal school discipline system. What does this really accomplish?

And going up to age 25 is beyond crazy. Seems strange that adolescence is now being extended to the mid 20's in recent legislation. I thought you were an adult at 18, but apparently that isn't the case anymore. I don't think bullying can really apply to adults. When you're an adult, you should be able to have the maturity and power to cut bullies out of your life, at least if they're not related to you.

While I'm not a big fan of bullying, I don't like the recent trends to overcompensate in the other direction, and I especially don't like the recent trend of adults claiming to be bullied.  I guess it's too much to ask for people to adopt a "sticks and stones" approach to life.  There are jackasses out there, deal with it.

what happens when the parents don't do anything about it or the schools just look the other way?

If a crime has happened, pursue it.  It's not illegal, nor it should be, to be an asshole.

If so, this whole board would be criminals.

[giramomma]

May 8, 2014 9:11:00 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

what happens when the parents don't do anything about it or the schools just look the other way?

I think there's a middle ground between looking the other way and zero tolerance. Our school system is finding out that zero tolerance policies are doing more harm than good. When half of the kids in a school district are struggling, the answer isn't to have policies that will likely have them kicked out of school.

I also think that bullying is hard because it's so subjective. My DS, who is very, very sensitive would likely say he's been bullied. Most of the other kids in his class would let normal kid jawing roll right off their backs. My answer, as a parent, was NOT to go to the school and complain about all the other kids in his class. My next step was to start having the guidance counselor work with my kid to get a thicker skin.

[alabamagal]

May 8, 2014 9:25:44 GMT -5 giramomma said:

May 8, 2014 9:11:00 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

what happens when the parents don't do anything about it or the schools just look the other way?

I think there's a middle ground between looking the other way and zero tolerance. Our school system is finding out that zero tolerance policies are doing more harm than good. When half of the kids in a school district are struggling, the answer isn't to have policies that will likely have them kicked out of school.

I also think that bullying is hard because it's so subjective. My DS, who is very, very sensitive would likely say he's been bullied. Most of the other kids in his class would let normal kid jawing roll right off their backs. My answer, as a parent, was NOT to go to the school and complain about all the other kids in his class. My next step was to start having the guidance counselor work with my kid to get a thicker skin.

When my youngest was in 5th grade, his older sister (in 8th grade) once told him, in a very cross voice "You better toughen up before you go to middle school, because that's where other kids will really pick on you!".

Part of life is learning to deal with bad situations.

My middle child had a few issues with other kids picking on him (I wouldn't call it bullying him).  We just talked to him about it, and told him the other kids were jealous of him because he was smarter.  I think that helped him deal with it better.

[Phoenix84]

May 8, 2014 7:52:05 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

My problem is that bullying isn't often a straight forward case of several kids picking on one other kid. I read about a girl that committed suicide a few years back. The media response was to paint her as a poor victim and the other kids as horrible people. However, this reporter spent a lot of time interviewing the kids and families and teachers, and researching the background of the kid that committed suicide, and found that the dead girl had herself been a bully at a previous school, and had ultimately been kicked out. She had attempted suicide before. She was living with her dad and moved far away to live with her mom and start fresh at a new school, but she fell into the old patterns. She liked to 'steal' boyfriends away from other girls and then brag about it. She posted as many nasty comments on social media as the other kids. She slept with the BF of one of the popular girls, then the BF turned on her and made some nasty comments about her, too, and the girl killed herself.

To me, it wasn't a clear cut case of several kids picking on another one. It was a pack of nasty kids being mean to each other, all of them trying to be the 'popular' kids, and then one of them, who already had mental health issues, killed herself. I don't think, in those cases, punishing the surviving kids for doing what the dead child did, too, is really useful.

IMHO if we could keep kids off social media, we should do that, but that's not likely to happen.

In my opinion, no one can drive someone else to committ suicide.  Suicide is a choice made entirely by the person killing themselves.  I believe those that do kill themselves have broader mental illness problems than just bullying.

[Phoenix84]

May 8, 2014 9:11:00 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

May 8, 2014 2:19:42 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think it's stupid and goes too far. It'll waste the time of sheriff's deputies, parents, and the court system. I guess I just don't see how bullying could not be handled through parents and the normal school discipline system. What does this really accomplish?

And going up to age 25 is beyond crazy. Seems strange that adolescence is now being extended to the mid 20's in recent legislation. I thought you were an adult at 18, but apparently that isn't the case anymore. I don't think bullying can really apply to adults. When you're an adult, you should be able to have the maturity and power to cut bullies out of your life, at least if they're not related to you.

While I'm not a big fan of bullying, I don't like the recent trends to overcompensate in the other direction, and I especially don't like the recent trend of adults claiming to be bullied.  I guess it's too much to ask for people to adopt a "sticks and stones" approach to life.  There are jackasses out there, deal with it.

what happens when the parents don't do anything about it or the schools just look the other way?

*Shrugs* Then the bullying goes on.  How do you think the proposed law is going to work?  The schools are going to be the ones calling in the cops, if they're looking the other way, then nothing changes either way.

[justme]

May 8, 2014 8:05:53 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

No, it shouldn't.
Who are the Mods going to pick on if they can't bully without being charged?

All those over 25 since it only applies to ages 5-25. That still leaves the majority of the board up for the pickings. 

[Phoenix84]

I was bullied in elementary school and junior high.  Not so much in high school.  It never got physical, probably because I was almost always bigger than the other kids.

You get over it.

[justme]

I don't think so, because I'm over every bloody thing being called bullying when it's not.

Also, I can't take any law seriously that requires your mommy to show up to court once you reach the age of 18.

[swamp]

My friend told her 9 year old to pick up his toys.  He said no. She told him to do it or go to his room.

He told her to stop bullying him.

yeah, sometimes we go to far with the whole bullying thing.

[Bob Ross]

Man, all of this because a few kids get bullied on Facebook and then hang themselves.

Why don't we blame the real problem here?  Facebook.

[souldoubt]

I agree with others who said that if bullying gets bad enough generally you should be able to prosecute under something else (assault, harassment).  Seems like you could be opening a giant can of worms depending on how this interpretation of bullying is handled because while bullying is obviously very real and serious the term is thrown around loosely.  I was a chubby kid growing up, took crap for it and there were days I didn't want to go to school.  It sucked at times but part of it was getting thicker skin because if you don't let things get to you or fire back the people giving you crap get over it real quick.  As bad as it felt at times in retrospect no one involved did anything that should have gotten the law involved whereas in today's world and with laws like this that may not be the case.  

[michelyn8]

May 8, 2014 9:02:58 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 8, 2014 8:59:38 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

I think there are aspects of bullying that are already a crime - harassment, stalking, etc.  I don't think we need to label bullying a crime, I think if it is extensive it will fall under something that is already a crime and should be prosecuted that way. 

It seems we are trying to legislate people to be nice.   You're free to be an ass, and sometimes you will get your feelings hurt.   That's life. 

Isn't that part of the issue though - that we have a generation of children who, on one hand, have been taught they can do no wrong so on one hand they expect everyone to treat them like the special child Mama and Daddy always said they were and, on the other hand, have been taught they can do no wrong and believe they can treat others anyway they want without regard to the other person's feelings? 

My approach may have been flawed but I taught my children they should treat others as they wanted to be treated.  And I also told them to be careful how they treated others because you just never knew if a person had problems that would cause them to become violent.  They were pre-teens when Columbine happened and I was always worried that some kid would go off the deep end like those boys.  Considering we live in the land of guns and trucks, it would have been easy enough for some kid to bring a gun or two to school without their parents knowing.

[tloonya]

I wasn't bullied, I had friends...we were cool. We wore real USA jeans! Those who wore jeans made in Europe were 'different' people.

However a whole class bullied one girl (the smartest) and the boy (also the smartest).
We had half of the class that were smart. (I was straight A.)
Not every nerd got bullied, only those 2.
The girl was subjecting herself to it I guess. Whenever we were trying to be nice to her - she was telling us that nation of the rats will take over the world and here we were...laughing our asses off and asking her questions and then, of course, being mean to her. She became a huge biologist. I am not sure about her rats theory...
The bullied boy...girls weren't dealing with him, boys were. Nothing physical, just jokes. He was math genius. With funny last name. I think that done it. Last names are sometimes a bitch.

I do not remember anyone being bullied to the point when they didn't want to go to school.
I can say though if I was bullied - I wouldn't go to school. I think. I was so petrified about being bullied, I always thought how horrible it is.
And today I am disgusted thinking about kids having to deal with bullying. However solution to this is not known to the world imo. Sad.