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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 6:06:20 GMT -5
Well, I do explain why I don't choose to go to church.
But then, I have really opinionated Kidd. They were 2 and 4 I think the first time I heard them argue 'GG didn't die, she turned into a baby'... And 'No, she didn't, when you are dead you are dead, that's all'... They still identify themselves as ascribing to recreation and atheism respectively, while I consider myself agnostic... Although, like me, daughter does love a good Jesus story.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on May 2, 2014 6:37:02 GMT -5
The more you post on this thread, the more it seems like you really want to complain. So go ahead and knock yourself out with your complaint letter. I'm sure it will come out scathing.
A lot of Catholic schools have closed due to lower enrollment or less financial support, so the diocese may not make the connection with the principle unless they receive complaints. And I expect they would take an attempt to deny your son communion a lot more seriously than you do.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 8:58:13 GMT -5
Don't count on it. I was raised Catholic and I am an Atheist.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 9:16:39 GMT -5
Don't count on it. I was raised Catholic and I am an Atheist. I was taken to church every Sunday, went to Sunday school, did the Christmas plays, the whole 9 yards, but I was a skeptic from quite young. As soon as I was old enough to put my foot down about church I did. In my 30's, I thought that maybe the community and family values aspect of church wouldn't be a bad idea and started going again. At that time I switched from United Church of Christ and was confirmed in the Catholic church, and had older son baptized at the Easter vigil. I lasted about 2 years and I don't make him go anymore either. I won't go so far as to say as I'm an Atheist, but I can't jump on the Christian bandwagon.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 9:22:00 GMT -5
I just wanted pat to know that her son's mind wouldn't be so easily changed by attending mass weekly. ETA: at least I'd hope he'd still think for himself with or without it.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on May 2, 2014 10:05:07 GMT -5
Don't count on it. I was raised Catholic and I am an Atheist. Same here. I never believed, so all those Sunday mornings were a giant waste of good sleeping hours.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 2, 2014 10:21:18 GMT -5
I too find it hard to go to a church where the first things they do is want your money, that should not be what it is about. So I decided I can believe if I want, read the bible if I want and keep my money also. That's too bad. Our church suggests that whatever you feel compelled to donate out of your salary, half goes to the church and half goes to causes that you feel are worthy. We are expected to donate a certain amount every year only because we send our kids there. Our church, also embraces the gift of time..... I love our church. It's fairly liberal. But, I love it more for the sense of community. It's a huge church with about 6K members. I STILL feel like when Norm walks in the Cheers and everyone shouts "Norm!"
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2014 11:00:31 GMT -5
You waited 5 years to complain. I think the complaint recipient will write it off and say that you are just mad over the school closing. I don't believe a complaint at this time would stop her from getting another assignment. If it is not apparent to the diocese that this individual is a poor administrator today, they aren't going to hold her back from promotion.
This incident just happened. It's kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. There have been multiple instances of her telling people she asked me to do something, but she didn't. Especially in connection with the school's annual fundraising auction.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2014 11:04:10 GMT -5
Haven't read the whole thread, but I find the idea of raising kids indoctrinated in a specific belief system so they can make their own decision later a bit weird. It would be like me saying I'm bombarding my kids with racist propaganda so they can make their own decisions about race as adults. To me, if you want the kids to make their own decision you either skip church entirely and let them discover religion on their own, or you expose them to a bunch of different belief systems and let them pick or reject them. Nothing wrong with raising Catholics either, of course, but if you raise a kid in a specific belief system most of them will stick with it. You aren't letting them choose, you're picking for them. But how do they make a decision about something they know nothing about? We talk a lot about other religions and other cultural holidays. I make sure not to tell them one religion/culture/practice is not better than another (unless it involves something like female genital mutilation), and talk about how someone is raised will often affect how the celebrate holidays. Or as much as a can with a 6 and 7 year old.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 11:09:38 GMT -5
Not believing in god doesn't mean I'm anti-church. Just because it's not for me doesn't mean it's not for everyone. Who am I to tell you what to believe?
My kids don't go because the believers in the family don't go. But if DH or MIL took them I wouldn't have a problem with it.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 11:12:03 GMT -5
The ex gave DS an 8x10 picture of Jesus to hang in his bedroom. I'm fine with that, but I'm considering hanging 8X10 pictures of every other religious icon I can think of alongside it, right down to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Kind of a tribute to religions theme!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2014 11:15:09 GMT -5
The ex gave DS an 8x10 picture of Jesus to hang in his bedroom. I'm fine with that, but I'm considering hanging 8X10 pictures of every other religious icon I can think of alongside it, right down to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Kind of a tribute to religions theme! I would love an 8x10 of the flying spaghetti monster!
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 11:15:30 GMT -5
Having an 8X10 picture of Jesus in my bedroom would freak me out!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 2, 2014 11:19:25 GMT -5
But how do they make a decision about something they know nothing about? We talk a lot about other religions and other cultural holidays. I make sure not to tell them one religion/culture/practice is not better than another (unless it involves something like female genital mutilation), and talk about how someone is raised will often affect how the celebrate holidays. Or as much as a can with a 6 and 7 year old. If they're curious they'll explore religion on their own later. How do they make a decision with only one view presented to them their entire lives?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2014 11:22:00 GMT -5
But how do they make a decision about something they know nothing about? We talk a lot about other religions and other cultural holidays. I make sure not to tell them one religion/culture/practice is not better than another (unless it involves something like female genital mutilation), and talk about how someone is raised will often affect how the celebrate holidays. Or as much as a can with a 6 and 7 year old. If they're curious they'll explore religion on their own later. How do they make a decision with only one view presented to them their entire lives? I do my best to tell them about other views.
I certainly don't tell them that if they don't believe/eat meat on Friday/tell a lie they are going to Hell, or talk about God in the negative, punitive way that most religions seem to focus on.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 11:23:13 GMT -5
Having an 8X10 picture of Jesus in my bedroom would freak me out! How about this one?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 11:23:44 GMT -5
But how do they make a decision about something they know nothing about? We talk a lot about other religions and other cultural holidays. I make sure not to tell them one religion/culture/practice is not better than another (unless it involves something like female genital mutilation), and talk about how someone is raised will often affect how the celebrate holidays. Or as much as a can with a 6 and 7 year old. If they're curious they'll explore religion on their own later. How do they make a decision with only one view presented to them their entire lives? Were you raised with one religion or many? I was raised with one but I branched out. It's not the end of the world.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on May 2, 2014 11:44:30 GMT -5
You do what you feel like doing, Swamp. Personally, I am more like Dark Honor. Agnostic. DH is even more agnostic than I am. We don't go to Church or believe in Christian preachings. That does not mean that my kids do not know who Jesus is, what religion means, what Church is or does. They see their friends going, they know how Christmas, Easter etc are related to religion. They just have never shown much interest in it. Most likely because we, as parents, have never shown an interest in it. The kids are also fully aware of other religions becasue they have friends who belong to other religions. My kids celebrate everything with their friends!! And I do mean Hindu holidays and Muslim holidays and Jewish holidays. DD has been invited to Diwali parties, DS has Jewish friend so he celebrates everything. He also did Lent partly this year (gave up XBox for a week   , even though we are not anything remote. All this to say that not introducing kids to one particular religion does not mean that they will not have a chance to explore them later in life. I was raised pretty much the same way I am raising my kids. DH had a more structured exposure to religion (pretty liberal still) and he is more agnostic than I am.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 2, 2014 13:23:40 GMT -5
If they're curious they'll explore religion on their own later. How do they make a decision with only one view presented to them their entire lives? How much idle time do you have on your hands these days to explore all sorts of new and interesting things? With two kids, a business, and wife working more, I'm assuming you don't have several hours a week (let's say 7-10) to really devote to learning something that piques your interest...I know I sure as heck don't have the time...
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 13:27:24 GMT -5
If they're curious they'll explore religion on their own later. How do they make a decision with only one view presented to them their entire lives? How much idle time do you have on your hands these days to explore all sorts of new and interesting things? With two kids, a business, and wife working more, I'm assuming you don't have several hours a week (let's say 7-10) to really devote to learning something that piques your interest...I know I sure as heck don't have the time... Then again, will it be so horrible if they don't?
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on May 2, 2014 13:36:23 GMT -5
Why would it take seven hours to read about something that might interest you?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 2, 2014 13:42:29 GMT -5
We don't go to Church or believe in Christian preachings.I think you need to define this a little more..in my church ( and to me) it's more about the message than the actual words. My kids are taught that the bible is full of stories, passed down in oral tradition. They aren't taught that it should be taken literally. As part of their Catholic education, the kids are taught to strive to be the best people they can be. To be kind, compassionate, giving, accepting of others and helpful. They are also taught that in general, things like killing someone else and stealing aren't really good behaviors.. Our church also teaches the kids to have hope for the future and that even if things are really, really bad, we can find peace within ourselves. I know as a parent, this is what I teach my kids. And I'd do it even if we weren't cafeteria Catholics. I mean, I'd never teach my kids to be assholes and take advantage of everyone, everything, and that they should never, ever help another person or give back to the community. I wouldn't teach my kids to discriminate. I absolutely agree that one doesn't need the constructs of religion to teach our kids what it means to be "a good person" (however one may define it..) But, I like that my kids hear these things from someone other than me. Because let's face it, most of the time, when my kids hear me speak, I sound like the adults on the old school Charlie Brown cartoons.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 2, 2014 13:45:34 GMT -5
Why would it take seven hours to read about something that might interest you? I don't know. I was making it up. I know I don't have time with my family and work constraints to take the time to get really good at something. To that end, i would think, from my own personal experience, to have a good/deep understanding of all the religions, you'd want to devote at least an hour to the study for quite a long period of time.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 13:49:43 GMT -5
We don't go to Church or believe in Christian preachings.I think you need to define this a little more..in my church ( and to me) it's more about the message than the actual words. My kids are taught that the bible is full of stories, passed down in oral tradition. They aren't taught that it should be taken literally. As part of their Catholic education, the kids are taught to strive to be the best people they can be. To be kind, compassionate, giving, accepting of others and helpful. They are also taught that in general, things like killing someone else and stealing aren't really good behaviors.. Our church also teaches the kids to have hope for the future and that even if things are really, really bad, we can find peace within ourselves. I know as a parent, this is what I teach my kids. And I'd do it even if we weren't cafeteria Catholics. I mean, I'd never teach my kids to be assholes and take advantage of everyone, everything, and that they should never, ever help another person or give back to the community. I wouldn't teach my kids to discriminate. I absolutely agree that one doesn't need the constructs of religion to teach our kids what it means to be "a good person" (however one may define it..) But, I like that my kids hear these things from someone other than me. This is what I WANTED to get from church, but week after week I was going and getting bombarded with political propaganda and condemnation of people (this was during the MN marriage equality debate). When I heard how much money the archbishop was throwing at the cause (in the millions), while at the same time being turned down for subsidized marriage counseling through the parish for my OWN marriage, I walked and never went back.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on May 2, 2014 13:50:45 GMT -5
Why would it take seven hours to read about something that might interest you? I don't know. I was making it up. I know I don't have time with my family and work constraints to take the time to get really good at something. To that end, i would think, from my own personal experience, to have a good/deep understanding of all the religions, you'd want to devote at least an hour to the study for quite a long period of time. But teenagers and other young people who are pondering the big questions don't have those constraints. Hell, I have the time to read about religion while I'm sitting on my ass watching t.v. or on the train. I don't even know what the hell my point is. Lol.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on May 2, 2014 14:21:48 GMT -5
We don't go to Church or believe in Christian preachings.I think you need to define this a little more..in my church ( and to me) it's more about the message than the actual words. My kids are taught that the bible is full of stories, passed down in oral tradition. They aren't taught that it should be taken literally. As part of their Catholic education, the kids are taught to strive to be the best people they can be. To be kind, compassionate, giving, accepting of others and helpful. They are also taught that in general, things like killing someone else and stealing aren't really good behaviors.. Our church also teaches the kids to have hope for the future and that even if things are really, really bad, we can find peace within ourselves. I know as a parent, this is what I teach my kids. And I'd do it even if we weren't cafeteria Catholics. I mean, I'd never teach my kids to be assholes and take advantage of everyone, everything, and that they should never, ever help another person or give back to the community. I wouldn't teach my kids to discriminate. I absolutely agree that one doesn't need the constructs of religion to teach our kids what it means to be "a good person" (however one may define it..) But, I like that my kids hear these things from someone other than me. Because let's face it, most of the time, when my kids hear me speak, I sound like the adults on the old school Charlie Brown cartoons. Warning. I might shock you because you come as a devout Catholic to me. Here goes. I don't care to teach my kids practical things through the eyes of Bible. I don't beleive you have to be a part of any organized religion if you want to find peace within yourself or with your existence. All the good and practical things we teach our kids are through our experience and through our common sense. Discrimination, stereotypes, biases, bad habits, addiction...all of these exist even in people who are devout to any specific religion. To teach children to be kind, compassionate, loving, giving, optimistic and a overall good human being.....so far I haven't needed religion for that. Good for people who want Bible to be a part of their daily lives. Its just not for me. I respect those who have their beliefs. I am not cut out that way and I expect to be respected for that as well. ETA: I HATE getting into any religious discussion. Since I am so obviously agnostic. So I am sorry if I offended any devout believers. Sorry also to Swamp, since her thread has taken a totally different path now
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 2, 2014 16:55:10 GMT -5
I think you need to define this a little more..in my church ( and to me) it's more about the message than the actual words. My kids are taught that the bible is full of stories, passed down in oral tradition. They aren't taught that it should be taken literally. As part of their Catholic education, the kids are taught to strive to be the best people they can be. To be kind, compassionate, giving, accepting of others and helpful. They are also taught that in general, things like killing someone else and stealing aren't really good behaviors.. Our church also teaches the kids to have hope for the future and that even if things are really, really bad, we can find peace within ourselves. I know as a parent, this is what I teach my kids. And I'd do it even if we weren't cafeteria Catholics. I mean, I'd never teach my kids to be assholes and take advantage of everyone, everything, and that they should never, ever help another person or give back to the community. I wouldn't teach my kids to discriminate. I absolutely agree that one doesn't need the constructs of religion to teach our kids what it means to be "a good person" (however one may define it..) But, I like that my kids hear these things from someone other than me. Because let's face it, most of the time, when my kids hear me speak, I sound like the adults on the old school Charlie Brown cartoons. Warning. I might shock you because you come as a devout Catholic to me. Here goes. I don't care to teach my kids practical things through the eyes of Bible. I don't beleive you have to be a part of any organized religion if you want to find peace within yourself or with your existence. All the good and practical things we teach our kids are through our experience and through our common sense. Discrimination, stereotypes, biases, bad habits, addiction...all of these exist even in people who are devout to any specific religion. To teach children to be kind, compassionate, loving, giving, optimistic and a overall good human being.....so far I haven't needed religion for that. Good for people who want Bible to be a part of their daily lives. Its just not for me. I respect those who have their beliefs. I am not cut out that way and I expect to be respected for that as well. ETA: I HATE getting into any religious discussion. Since I am so obviously agnostic. So I am sorry if I offended any devout believers. Sorry also to Swamp, since her thread has taken a totally different path now Oh, I'm hardly devout. I think my bishop is a huge ass. Seriously, he's so full of himself he hints that since the Pope isn't doing his job well, the bishop has to fill in for the Pope's short comings..We do not believe in being open to creating a human life every time we have sex. I also have issues with the meaning of the dignity of life as defined by my faith. I don't want to go back to Latin Mass. I won't proselytize. And I already said there's more than one way to teach a kid values and to shape them, and no, I don't believe that religion is the only way to do so.
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