Bloodlust rules- and just when I thought there was a chance

[Bluerobin]

May 1, 2014 4:52:02 GMT -5 truthbound said:

Apr 30, 2014 6:40:04 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Hey, it worked.  The mutant died!!!  If you want to change, go back to the firing squad.

Seriously. A bullet costs a buck.

You use the expensive bullets?

[zibazinski]

[OldCoyote]

Bills, that's a great idea,  a death sentence by a hungry grizzly.

We could sell tickets.  More revenue.

[jkapp]

Apr 30, 2014 1:40:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

when will this insanity end?

Maybe when people stop committing such heinous crimes as to be given the death penalty?  Hmm?  Maybe?   Too much to ask, I suppose?

[billisonboard]

May 1, 2014 8:55:54 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Apr 30, 2014 1:40:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

when will this insanity end?

Maybe when people stop committing such heinous crimes as to be given the death penalty?  Hmm?  Maybe?   Too much to ask, I suppose?

True. We can only control ourselves.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 30, 2014 11:17:39 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit happens.

However, I am concerned with a recent study that shows as many as 25% of death row inmates may not be guilty.

And if they are not?  What if there is irrefutable evidence, like a 911 tape identifying the attacker while he was butchering an entire family.

[swamp]

May 1, 2014 9:54:12 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 30, 2014 11:17:39 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit happens.

However, I am concerned with a recent study that shows as many as 25% of death row inmates may not be guilty.

And if they are not?  What if there is irrefutable evidence, like a 911 tape identifying the attacker while he was butchering an entire family.

What if it's mistaken identity?

[Tennesseer]

May 1, 2014 9:54:12 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 30, 2014 11:17:39 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit happens.

However, I am concerned with a recent study that shows as many as 25% of death row inmates may not be guilty.

And if they are not?  What if there is irrefutable evidence, like a 911 tape identifying the attacker while he was butchering an entire family.

The real killer could actually call into 911 and report a massacre in progress and give anyone's name to the police dispatcher.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 1, 2014 10:09:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

May 1, 2014 9:54:12 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

And if they are not?  What if there is irrefutable evidence, like a 911 tape identifying the attacker while he was butchering an entire family.

The real killer could actually call into 911 and report a massacre in progress and give anyone's name to the police dispatcher.

texnews.com/1998/texas/exec0627.html

One of the kids who was being attacked called 911, the tape was running while she was being stabbed and she identified the guy who attacked her by name (it was her sister's ex boyfriend).  The tape also had her last sounds as she died.

I was living here at the time and it scared the crap out of me.

[Tennesseer]

May 1, 2014 10:52:36 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

May 1, 2014 10:09:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The real killer could actually call into 911 and report a massacre in progress and give anyone's name to the police dispatcher.

texnews.com/1998/texas/exec0627.html

One of the kids who was being attacked called 911, the tape was running while she was being stabbed and she identified the guy who attacked her by name (it was her sister's ex boyfriend).  The tape also had her last sounds as she died.

I was living here at the time and it scared the crap out of me.

That is your case.  But my example still stands.

[djAdvocate]

May 1, 2014 8:55:54 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Apr 30, 2014 1:40:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

when will this insanity end?

Maybe when people stop committing such heinous crimes as to be given the death penalty?  Hmm?  Maybe?   Too much to ask, I suppose?

fails the test of logic for me.  have such crimes stopped in Michigan?  they have not had the death penalty for 150+ years.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 1, 2014 11:35:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 1, 2014 8:55:54 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Maybe when people stop committing such heinous crimes as to be given the death penalty?  Hmm?  Maybe?   Too much to ask, I suppose?

fails the test of logic for me.  have such crimes stopped in Michigan?  they have not had the death penalty for 150+ years.

I think jkapp's point is that the chain of events is entirely contingent on the initial crime.

Assume you believed as we do that being put to death is the just (i.e. most fitting) punishment for a capital crime. As disturbing as executions are, justice is justice ipso facto. In other words, justice may necessarily be disturbing in some cases.

I would liken it to a field surgeon setting a broken bone without anesthesia. I doubt many of us would have the stomach to watch such an operation, but at the same time we acknowledge that the surgeon's brutal intervention isn't "madness". Brutal as it is, it's the most fitting intervention given the circumstances. Brutality doesn't necessarily make the operation wrong.

The "madness"--the disorder that precipitated the brutal response--is the broken bone. Or in the case of a state execution, the heinous crime committed by the condemned.

[billisonboard]

May 1, 2014 13:36:36 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 1, 2014 11:35:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

fails the test of logic for me.  have such crimes stopped in Michigan?  they have not had the death penalty for 150+ years.

I think jkapp's point is that the chain of events is entirely contingent on the initial crime.

Assume you believed as we do that being put to death is the just (i.e. most fitting) punishment for a capital crime. As disturbing as executions are, justice is justice ipso facto. In other words, justice may necessarily be disturbing in some cases.

I would liken it to a field surgeon setting a broken bone without anesthesia. I doubt many of us would have the stomach to watch such an operation, but at the same time we acknowledge that the surgeon's brutal intervention isn't "madness". Brutal as it is, it's the most fitting intervention given the circumstances. Brutality doesn't necessarily make the operation wrong.

The "madness"--the disorder that precipitated the brutal response--is the broken bone. Or in the case of a state execution, the heinous crime committed by the condemned.

The field surgeon has anesthetia and just chooses to not use it.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 1, 2014 13:44:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 1, 2014 13:36:36 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I think jkapp's point is that the chain of events is entirely contingent on the initial crime.

Assume you believed as we do that being put to death is the just (i.e. most fitting) punishment for a capital crime. As disturbing as executions are, justice is justice ipso facto. In other words, justice may necessarily be disturbing in some cases.

I would liken it to a field surgeon setting a broken bone without anesthesia. I doubt many of us would have the stomach to watch such an operation, but at the same time we acknowledge that the surgeon's brutal intervention isn't "madness". Brutal as it is, it's the most fitting intervention given the circumstances. Brutality doesn't necessarily make the operation wrong.

The "madness"--the disorder that precipitated the brutal response--is the broken bone. Or in the case of a state execution, the heinous crime committed by the condemned.

The field surgeon has anesthetia and just chooses to not use it.

...which would be akin to death not being the just punishment for a capital crime. Hence my "Assume you believed..." disclaimer in paragraph 2. I'm well aware that we don't agree on whether death is a just punishment.

[truthbound]

May 1, 2014 7:21:25 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

May 1, 2014 4:52:02 GMT -5 truthbound said:

Seriously. A bullet costs a buck.

You use the expensive bullets?

Yes. Come to think of it they are not worth wasting them for that. A good old lead slug will do.

[djAdvocate]

unlike you, i am not going to assume what jk meant.  he can speak for himself.  or not.

[djAdvocate]

May 2, 2014 1:53:56 GMT -5 truthbound said:

May 1, 2014 7:21:25 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

You use the expensive bullets?

Yes. Come to think of it they are not worth wasting them for that. A good old lead slug will do.

you could do what Pol Pot did, and beat them over the head with old chairs.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 2, 2014 9:59:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

unlike you, i am not going to assume what jk meant.  he can speak for himself.  or not.

You already have assumed what he meant.

I can't quite figure out what that assumption was, given your response. I suspect you may have misread his post.

[zibazinski]

How about burying him alive? Like he did to his victim. Sorry, you can bleed heart for him all you want but he committed the crime and I don't care how much he suffered in dying.

[djAdvocate]

May 2, 2014 10:29:58 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 2, 2014 9:59:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

unlike you, i am not going to assume what jk meant.  he can speak for himself.  or not.

You already have assumed what he meant.

um....no.  look again.  there were no pronouns in my reply.  i might have INTERPRETED what he said differently than he intended it, but i didn't assume for a moment what he actually thinks.  for all i know, jk is Chelsea Clinton.  i don't pretend to know the minds of other posters.  i respond SOLELY to MY OWN IMPRESSION of WHAT IS SAID.  they might be quoting Ghandi.  one guy quoted a movie, and i wrote out a long reply to it as if it were a second piece of dialog.  i respond only to what is said, Virgil.  i don't pretend to know what anyone THINKS.  if i am CURIOUS about that, i generally ASK.

you're welcome.

[djAdvocate]

May 2, 2014 15:48:30 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

How about burying him alive? Like he did to his victim. Sorry, you can bleed heart for him all you want but he committed the crime and I don't care how much he suffered in dying.

i am not responsible for his actions.  i am only responsible for my own, and those of my government.

an unconstitutional action on the part of my government doesn't make my heart "bleed".  it fills it with rage.

[Virgil Showlion]

I SEE, DJ. Thank you for POINTING that out TO me. On an unrelated NOTE, I think your SHIFT key may BE sticky.

While I'd normally point out that interpretations are based on assumptions, or that replying to a comment is pointless if not for a reasonable degree of certainty on what the author intended to communicate, instead I'll point out that my Reply #26 begins explicitly with "I think jkapp's point is...", thus clearly pertaining to my personal thoughts--or one might say my "interpretation"--of jkapp's post.

[djAdvocate]

May 2, 2014 17:19:29 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I SEE, DJ. Thank you for POINTING that out TO me. On an unrelated NOTE, I think your SHIFT key may BE sticky.

i highlight for emphasis.  you're welcome.

While I'd normally point out that interpretations are based on assumptions,

not about jk.  i don't know anything about him, or how he thinks.  nor you.  and you don't know how i think either.  you have only my words.  i prefer to keep it that way.  makes the conversations more unpredictable.

or that replying to a comment is pointless if not for a reasonable degree of certainty on what the author intended to communicate, instead I'll point out that my Reply #26 begins explicitly with "I think jkapp's point is...", thus clearly pertaining to my personal thoughts--or one might say my "interpretation"--of jkapp's post.

fine.  i might have misread your post.  point retracted.

to be clear: i tend to treat words on this b/b as entities of their own.  they either have merit, or they don't, but neither are a reflection on their author, imo.  i don't really know who i am dealing with here, so i take everything at face value.

[Virgil Showlion]

to be clear: i tend to treat words on this b/b as entities of their own. they either have merit, or they don't, but neither are a reflection on their author, imo.

My approach is almost the opposite. I make assumptions quite liberally based on what a poster has said before and what my perceptions of his/her viewpoint are.

Even so, I'm usually quite careful to challenge posters on things they've actually said.

[EVT1]

May 1, 2014 9:54:12 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 30, 2014 11:17:39 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit happens.

However, I am concerned with a recent study that shows as many as 25% of death row inmates may not be guilty.

And if they are not?  What if there is irrefutable evidence, like a 911 tape identifying the attacker while he was butchering an entire family.

I ran this up the pole once before- I am not opposed to the death penalty because of the killing- I am opposed to it because we are not capable of making sure the right people get it.  I suggested a step above the current law- using a bifurcated trial- to requiring a burden of proof being beyond all doubt.  And still I fear that is not enough assurance that we will not end up killing the wrong person every now and then- so forget it.  Time to get with the modern world and relegate this practice to the dustbin of history.

[mmhmm]

Apr 30, 2014 10:56:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

proof positive that the DP has nothing to do with punishment or justice.

note to mods: this is the second thread on this subject.

Thanks, dj.  I hadn't noticed there were two of them.  I'll combine this one into the previously started one.

mmhmm, Administrator