Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 12:18:48 GMT -5
Schools seem to struggle with finding the middle ground. Zero tolerance policies were put in to prevent favoritism, racism and all the other bad isms by supposedly standardizing the response and discipline of schools. Instead, they resulted in a harsher, less-equitable system that only results in the harshest penalty for kids whose parents are either too poor or not connected enough to work the system.
Similarly with the response to slapping. As MMC points out, in the past it wasn't considered a big deal for girls to slap boys. While it's good that this attitude of ignoring violence by and against either gender is not acceptable, it's unfortunate that the school isn't able to exercise discretion over what becomes a criminal matter versus what is handled through school discipline ***. IMHO the girl should definitely be punished for hitting someone else - no matter what the reason - but it would also be helpful if the school were able to handle first time and/or minor offenses through suspension rather than the criminal justice system.
*** - I realize in this case, there are complexities that might force it outside a school setting, such as the age difference between the two parties, one of the parties being a legal adult and if the victim's parents choose to involve the police in what was an assault. I like the fact that at 18 she is so sure of her self worth that she is making a stand that that behaviour is not acceptable.. Everything else is just noise. This is what whoever is involved should focus on.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Apr 22, 2014 12:22:52 GMT -5
She sounds like a real prize-winner. Honestly, the boy is better off without her. She sounds like she has the maturity of a goldfish. She got off lucky with just the 4th degree misdemeanor. In our area, they have been known to prosecute 18 y.o.'s who are having sexual relations with 16 y.o.'s if there is any situation that the police have to get involved in.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 22, 2014 12:35:23 GMT -5
A slap is assault, no matter what the gender of the slapper is. Not far fetched.
You wouldn't want a boy slapping his girlfriend, right? It's no more OK for the girl to be slapping a boyfriend. Agreed. If the roles were reversed most people would say he assaulted her so I don't see why this is any different.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 22, 2014 13:35:56 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 22, 2014 13:44:27 GMT -5
It sounds like it would be battery, not assault (battery is touching someone; assault is a feasible threat of bodily harm which may or may not involve physical contact).
In my state, battery is defined as (It's an A misdemeanor if it actually causes harm). So yeah, a slap would qualify. The law doesn't specify that it's not battery if the person doing it has a really good reason, or if it doesn't harm the recipient.
And I agree that the gender of those doing/receiving the slapping should make no difference. If an 18yo guy slapped a 17yo girl "to indicate her behavior was unacceptable," would that be OK?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 22, 2014 13:45:33 GMT -5
Of course cheating is wrong but I look the other way if it's none of my business, i.e. it doesn't involve my relationship. I don't condone it or egg it on but I don't get in the middle of it either.
One person hitting or slapping another is rarely acceptable (self defense is one thing) and that's something you start teaching kids at a young age when they respond by pushing or hitting another child. That's exactly the thing you're trying to tell them that's not alright to respond with violence so I don't see how teenagers doing it is okay. Again if he had slapped her he'd be labeled a woman beater and face the repercussions (some other guys at school would want to kick his ass) even if the legal one's weren't as bad because he's a minor. Most double standards seem to work against women but when it comes to anything physical between a man and a woman it's against the man.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 22, 2014 13:52:30 GMT -5
To me, hitting someone is never okay. I don't care what they did to "deserve it." Nobody deserves to be the victem of domestic violance. I don't have much love lost for cheaters, but that's not an excuse. I don't even care if it's a 5'0" woman woman hitting a 6'5" man, it's not okay. And that's doubly true at school, and triple true if you're over 18 and hitting a minor.
She got off easy if you ask me.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 22, 2014 13:55:49 GMT -5
It sounds like this girl has watched too much Jerry Springer to me. You don't need to slap someone to let them know their behavior is unacceptable. Simply telling them to never speak to you again will do the trick. Just sounds like over dramatizing to me and a way to embarrass him in front of people... She also needs to learn to get her emotions in check. I can't count the number of people I have felt like slapping the crap out of but I never have.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 22, 2014 14:02:32 GMT -5
Smacking someone over relationship stuff is assault. Her parents should have to take her to counselling over this. No only assault...its low class. Agreed. Not only is it wrong, it's low class. I'd want to raise my kids better than to be like the guests on Jerry Springer.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 22, 2014 14:33:02 GMT -5
Schools seem to struggle with finding the middle ground. Zero tolerance policies were put in to prevent favoritism, racism and all the other bad isms by supposedly standardizing the response and discipline of schools. Instead, they resulted in a harsher, less-equitable system that only results in the harshest penalty for kids whose parents are either too poor or not connected enough to work the system.
Similarly with the response to slapping. As MMC points out, in the past it wasn't considered a big deal for girls to slap boys. While it's good that this attitude of ignoring violence by and against either gender is not acceptable, it's unfortunate that the school isn't able to exercise discretion over what becomes a criminal matter versus what is handled through school discipline ***. IMHO the girl should definitely be punished for hitting someone else - no matter what the reason - but it would also be helpful if the school were able to handle first time and/or minor offenses through suspension rather than the criminal justice system.
*** - I realize in this case, there are complexities that might force it outside a school setting, such as the age difference between the two parties, one of the parties being a legal adult and if the victim's parents choose to involve the police in what was an assault. The "Police in this care was the SRO". DD says the SRO said a teacher witnessed it, however they think his Mom called the school and complained and the SRO just said that. I did no ask DD, but Most of the kids in DD's class are turning 17 so I doubt the age difference is actually 2 full years. My understanding is she "slapped him". She did not beat him up per se, so to me, assult is kind of far fetched. If it had not been on school grounds I doubt they would have issued a ticket. I pretty much agree that consequences should be the same for girls and boys, however I do think this is an overreaction. I like the fact that at 18 she is so sure of her self worth that she is making a stand that that behaviour is not acceptable. I really think the school should do more to educate kids on good/bad relationsip and danger type warning signs.
And I like the fact that someone is making a stand that physical violence is unacceptable, regardless of gender. There is an appropriate way to let someone know their behavior is unacceptable. This is not it. Acting like a classless, out of control guest on Jerry Springer is a way to garner derision, not respect, from others. When you say the school should do more to educate kids on bad relationships, wouldn't that include eductaing them that their partner should never, under any circumstances, hit them? Because you seem pretty blase about that part as compared to his indiscretion.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 22, 2014 14:34:01 GMT -5
It sounds like this girl has watched too much Jerry Springer to me. You don't need to slap someone to let them know their behavior is unacceptable. Simply telling them to never speak to you again will do the trick. Just sounds like over dramatizing to me and a way to embarrass him in front of people... She also needs to learn to get her emotions in check. I can't count the number of people I have felt like slapping the crap out of but I never have. lmao. You beat me to it. What is wrong with people?
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 22, 2014 14:38:36 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
So she slapped him to indicate that his behavior was unacceptable. I guess then he should have punched her in the face to indicate to her that slapping is unacceptable? What is the order of progression from there?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 14:40:56 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
So she slapped him to indicate that his behavior was unacceptable. I guess then he should have punched her in the face to indicate to her that slapping is unacceptable? What is the order of progression from there? I am not clear about the next few steps, but I know it ends with a violent rape. Who does the raping depends on the exact progression.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 22, 2014 14:45:43 GMT -5
So she slapped him to indicate that his behavior was unacceptable. I guess then he should have punched her in the face to indicate to her that slapping is unacceptable? What is the order of progression from there? I am not clear about the next few steps, but I know it ends with a violent rape. Who does the raping depends on the exact progression. Then clearly, the final step is a ripped from the headlines episode on Law & Order: SVU. Or a cinemax movie.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 22, 2014 15:33:56 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
So let me get this straight. Domestic violence is acceptable as long as it's to show the other party their behavior is unacceptable? I wonder if that defense would hold up in court. "Sorry for beating my wife judge, but it was just to show her that her behavior was unacceptable, because, you know, words just aren't enough sometimes."
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Apr 22, 2014 15:37:15 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
So she slapped him to indicate that his behavior was unacceptable. I guess then he should have punched her in the face to indicate to her that slapping is unacceptable? What is the order of progression from there? I think she sounds like a ghetto fabulous bitch who better watch herself or she may decide to the smack the wrong person and get her teeth knocked out. Hitting people is definitely not a demonstration of self worth....it is a demonstration of their lack of self control...nothing more.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 22, 2014 15:57:03 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
I'm not even sure if cheating can really apply to high school students. It's not like they were married or in a relationship for years and years. Plus I can see situations developing where one party feels like they're in a relationship but the other does not. Does this boy feel the same way about her that she did about him? If I had a 16 year old, and they were slapped for "cheating" I might use it as a teaching moment, but I wouldn't read too much into it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 22, 2014 15:59:52 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
I'm not even sure if cheating can really apply to high school students. It's not like they were married or in a relationship for years and years. Plus I can see situations developing where one party feels like they're in a relationship but the other does not. This this boy feel the same way about her that she did about him? If I had a 16 year old, and they were slapped for "cheating" I might use it as a teaching moment, but I wouldn't read too much into it.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 22, 2014 16:09:36 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
I'm not even sure if cheating can really apply to high school students. It's not like they were married or in a relationship for years and years. Plus I can see situations developing where one party feels like they're in a relationship but the other does not. Does this boy feel the same way about her that she did about him? If I had a 16 year old, and they were slapped for "cheating" I might use it as a teaching moment, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Most people see boyfriend/girlfriend as an exclusive relationship. Whether it's days, weeks, or years. Time matters not, age matters not. If the relationship is agreed upon by both to be exclusive, seeing anyone else is cheating. ETA: Not that I wish it on you, but would you just shrug and go on your way if your exclusive gf of two months cheated on you? Saying "no biggie, we haven't been together for years and aren't married". I'm not sure how other people's high school was, but at mine a bf/gf relationship was exclusive - even if they didn't always last that long.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 22, 2014 16:13:35 GMT -5
To me, cheating in a relationshup is just wrong. I think people in our society are too willing to look the other way. Often people know about an affair and just look the other way.
The difference in the ages, Mheh, they are both HS students, this a "Gray Area" of the law, that dosn't work for me. Just becasue she is a year older dosn't make her a sexual predator.
She slapped him across the face to indicate his behaviour was unacceptable. She did not beat the shit out of him. If it would have gone to that point I would have no issue in assault charges.
I'm not even sure if cheating can really apply to high school students. It's not like they were married or in a relationship for years and years. Plus I can see situations developing where one party feels like they're in a relationship but the other does not. Does this boy feel the same way about her that she did about him? If I had a 16 year old, and they were slapped for "cheating" I might use it as a teaching moment, but I wouldn't read too much into it. It is still cheating and being cheated on hurts no matter the age. Just because you are a teenager doesn't mean you can't be exclusive with someone... No excuse for slapping a person IMO though.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 22, 2014 16:33:31 GMT -5
Most people see boyfriend/girlfriend as an exclusive relationship. Whether it's days, weeks, or years. Time matters not, age matters not. If the relationship is agreed upon by both to be exclusive, seeing anyone else is cheating. ETA: Not that I wish it on you, but would you just shrug and go on your way if your exclusive gf of two months cheated on you? Saying "no biggie, we haven't been together for years and aren't married". I'm not sure how other people's high school was, but at mine a bf/gf relationship was exclusive - even if they didn't always last that long. I'm not saying it didn't or can't hurt, or that teenagers can't be exclusive, but I also think that at times, a teenager may THINK they're exclusive when the other person hasn't expressed as such. You know, teenagers aren't always the best at communicating things. When I was a bit younger than these kids, maybe 14 or 15, there was a girl who stalked me for some reason, even went as far as to call my mom and ask why we haven't gone out yet. I wasn't interested, but she thought we were something. It's possible if I had gotten involved with someone else, she might have interpreted it as "cheating." Let's say two high schoolers hook up at a party, but afterward one starts treating the other like a SO and the other one isn't interested, and starts to avoid the other. It's feasable that the one who still felt they were an item might be mortally offended at the "cheater" if they started dating someone else. Come on Justme, you know how dumb and stupid high school crushes can be. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's possible he never felt the same way about her that she felt about him, and that they never properly communicated their expectations.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 22, 2014 16:46:32 GMT -5
Most people see boyfriend/girlfriend as an exclusive relationship. Whether it's days, weeks, or years. Time matters not, age matters not. If the relationship is agreed upon by both to be exclusive, seeing anyone else is cheating. ETA: Not that I wish it on you, but would you just shrug and go on your way if your exclusive gf of two months cheated on you? Saying "no biggie, we haven't been together for years and aren't married". I'm not sure how other people's high school was, but at mine a bf/gf relationship was exclusive - even if they didn't always last that long. I'm not saying it didn't or can't hurt, or that teenagers can't be exclusive, but I also think that at times, a teenager may THINK they're exclusive when the other person hasn't expressed as such. You know, teenagers aren't always the best at communicating things. When I was a bit younger than these kids, maybe 14 or 15, there was a girl who stalked me for some reason, even went as far as to call my mom and ask why we haven't gone out yet. I wasn't interested, but she thought we were something. It's possible if I had gotten involved with someone else, she might have interpreted it as "cheating." Let's say two high schoolers hook up at a party, but afterward one starts treating the other like a SO and the other one isn't interested, and starts to avoid the other. It's feasable that the one who still felt they were an item might be mortally offended at the "cheater" if they started dating someone else. Come on Justme, you know how dumb and stupid high school crushes can be. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's possible he never felt the same way about her that she felt about him, and that they never properly communicated their expectations. I know how dumb they can be, but considering the OP's daughter knows both of them that when she says they were in a relationship, that they were. So coming at this as if they weren't in a relationship and therefore it wasn't cheating is not really relevant to this conversation at all. And you didn't preference your statement with maybe they weren't really together you specifically mentioned it would be cheating if they were together for years or married. Furthermore, at least from my not that long ago time there, you scenario didn't happen that often. Yeah, there were a ton of unrequited crushes and all that madness, but at least in the people I know I can't recall an instance were someone was convinced they were in a relationship and the other wasn't. Yeah, instances of two people dating the same person where they then fought over the person, but all the cheating scandals I got wind of there was no one saying "yeah, and they weren't even together" or something. Maybe you went to a high school where there were a lot of really crazy people that made up relationships in their head?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 22, 2014 17:36:57 GMT -5
...she found out her boyfriend was Cheating on her so she smacked him in the hallway at school. She is 18, he is 16. So they gave her a disorderly conduct ticket. They said that was the lowest ticket they could give her. They said they could charge her with child abuse. I told DD I didn't know if I would punish her for that. He is related to DH (3rd cousin to DD. I told DD i could just hear MIL's friends saying He Deserved It. It's not locked. ....or else I'm special enough to get to post to a locked thread :-p
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 22, 2014 17:45:28 GMT -5
It's not locked. ....or else I'm special enough to get to post to a locked thread :-p I'm going with "It's not locked"... But my mommy tells me I'm special
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 22, 2014 17:48:33 GMT -5
It's not locked. ....or else I'm special enough to get to post to a locked thread :-p I'm going with "It's not locked"... It seems to not be locked if you quote someone.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 22, 2014 17:56:03 GMT -5
Looks like there's been some sort of glitch. I'm going to lock this thread now. If bean29 wants it unlocked, she can PM me or another moderator. mmhmm, Administrator
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