More Moms Staying at Home

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Parenting: No matter what you do, it's wrong.

[Shooby]

I don't understand the notion that staying at home with your own baby is such a terrible thing? And, that somehow being at work is more desirable than rocking your baby? Sorry, I don't get. And, yes, I like my job and have a great career. Your jobs come and go. You aren't going to be thinking about your job on your deathbed. And, when aren't at work, life goes on and most people couldn't care less. But your child does. So, if I can choose to invest more time with my kids that is what I choose. Obviously that isn't always possible based on economics. But, we made effort to arrange our lives in a way that allowed me more flexible options. Too many people get overextended and then they can't cut back even if they want too.

[Pants]

Apr 11, 2014 8:36:40 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I don't understand the notion that staying at home with your own baby is such a terrible thing? And, that somehow being at work is more desirable than rocking your baby? Sorry, I don't get. And, yes, I like my job and have a great career. Your jobs come and go. You aren't going to be thinking about your job on your deathbed. And, when aren't at work, life goes on and most people couldn't care less. But your child does. So, if I can choose to invest more time with my kids that is what I choose. Obviously that isn't always possible based on economics. But, we made effort to arrange our lives in a way that allowed me more flexible options. Too many people get overextended and then they can't cut back even if they want too.

Shooby, there seem to be many, many things you don't understand. Perhaps you should try expanding your horizons?

[Shooby]

Oh brother. I would be happy to compare my "horizons" to yours. Sheesh. What condescending CRAPOLA.

[Shooby]

But, when you don't agree with someone, always come in with a "i am so much smarter than you", type post. LOL!

[Deleted]

Well, if you do "understand" these things, then maybe start with "my opinion is" instead? 

[Shooby]

I really don't need a lecture on "how to post", thanks so much!

[Deleted]

No lecture, just a suggestion... 

[Shooby]

Do you see that little signature line below my posts? Please refer to that as often as you need too.

[Deleted]

Now who's giving "how to post" lessons... 

[gooddecisions]

I don't think there is anything terrible about staying at home. Most of the reasons people have for staying at home didn't apply to me:

1. Helps husband focus on his career and make more money...nope we do just fine both of us working and have increased our salaries steadily. My job is location flexible, but we have yet to need to move for either job. Household chores and cooking are not that time-consuming, at least not how we do them.
2. Daycare costs more than salary. I mentioned it before, but I do believe anyone making more than 30K/year must be comparing net pay to gross daycare expense and forgetting about annual raises and decreases in daycare costs. At 34,000 a year for me, it's going to hurt- but I know I make more than that and there are far less expensive options if I chose to pursue them.
3. Working means somebody else is raising my children...while I did feel the temptation the first year to stay at home- mostly because of the lack of sleep and lack of brain function, I still held and rocked my baby during 3 months maternity leave, then when I returned to work- 2 hours every morning, 4 hours every evening, got up all night, held her all weekend, vacations and holidays. I even breastfed and cloth diapered for 2 years. I didn't go away, I was there every single day and don't feel like I missed out on anything. She is getting more education than I could ever provide since her teachers all have advanced degrees in early childhood development. I don't feel like any parent needs to be a presence in a child's life 24x7 and even most stay at home moms sign up for mom's day out programs, activities, playdates, grandparent visits, siblings helping out, etc. And, that's just the kid under 5. Once they are school age, stay at homes don't see them all day either.

But, the #1 reason I continued to work is not because I love work nor because I need a break from the family. I just love the paycheck work provides. I'd be perfectly happy playing with my kiddos all day, finding new and fun things to do and maybe even cleaning a little more, if I continued to get the salary. As it is, I feel very fortunate that we both achieved the perfect work/family balance.

[Deleted]

I think the daycare thing depends on area. 

I wasn't a complete 'have to stay home person' either. But its the way things have worked out and I'm happy with it. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't think staying home is terrible. If it's what you want and what works for you, great. It's none of my business.

I was tempted when I was on maternity leave but I had to weigh that I work in a field that I can't hop back into.  I really enjoy what I do and I want to continue doing it in some form "forever". So I choose to keep working.

If I didn't care about what I did or would have an easier time getting back in I might have considering staying home more heavily.

As it is even though I dislike it for the reasons Carl's mentioned I stay in academia b/c it affords me a lot of flexibility. I'm the one that handles sick kid duty. I put in my 40 hrs in the lab M-F and then leave for the day without a second thought.

I also have very supportive bosses who put up with me being out of the lab 3x a day to pump. UNMC is also a very family friendly employer. And you can't beat my family benefits package with a stick.

It works for me and works for our family.

[Sam_2.0]

I think women defend their choice to stay home so fiercely because of how hard we are pushed to press the limits. I remember as a kid having my parents tell me I could be anything i wanted to be: Doctor, Scientist, even President. NEVER was SAHM included on that list. They may have never said it, but it was always implied that being a SAHM was the lesser choice.

I wish we would stop fighting and recognize that it takes all kinds of people contributing to society in different ways to make things run well. It takes working mom CEOs and SAHMs that volunteer to help out in the classrooms. Our "job" doesn't have to come with a big paycheck or years of education to be considered valid. If your kids are taken care of and you are happy with the choices you've made, awesome! That means you are a good parent. SAH or not.

[bean29]

The problem Americans workers face, both male and female, is not primarily a discrimination-driven gender gap but a poor economy with widespread wage stagnation. Combine that with “moderate” inflation (according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Inflation Calculator, the dollar has lost 16 cents of value just since 2006) and you’ve got a steadily shrinking family paycheck.

So when I read the above from the article I was confused.  How do you have "moderate" inflation and have the dollar lose 16 cents of value since 2006.  I work for a small company and while some of you talk about yearly raises, we are struggling and I have had one raise since 2006.  So, 16 cents on the dollar is significant to me.

The corporate profit margin is very narrow.  There really is no room for raises.

My MIL was my babysitter and she is super grandma.  I was never as good at managing the childcare/food prep/household as she is, so I went back to work and left it to her...and we paid her well for taking care of our family.

I have always been leery of giving up my career, not having my own income.  Even now that we no longer have small children, I would rather save more $$ rather than quit working.  I would agee that many who make the decision to stay home with their kids are lower earners.

The exception would be someone who has a high earning spouse, but often the one staying home in those cases, does not have a high paying job to begin with.

My DH is a high earner, very successful, but he talks about how me working freed him up to take more risk in his career.  If you are the one giving up your job, you are the one taking the most risk on though.

[Deleted]

I think SAH moms defend their choice so fiercely because the 'other side' keeps suggesting that only if you work do you have ambition and goals, etc... 

I think the working moms defend their choice so fiercely because the 'other side' keeps suggesting that if they work they don't love their children....

I think we would all be better off if we just thought more carefully about what we say and accept that different families make different choices and its great that we live in a time when we have so many varied opportunities... and our ability to be flexible, and each do our own thing is what makes the whole thing run all the more smoothly... especially when we help each other out instead of trashing each other's choices...


... I'm going to go sit in the corner and sing kumbaya now... ohmm...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think the working moms defend their choice so fiercely because the 'other side' keeps suggesting that if they work they don't love their children....

Shoot. .you're onto me.

[Deleted]

I'm not going to make generalizations pat, but i have to say that several of the moms in my homeschool group who have a lot less education that me are WAY better baby and toddler mothers than i ever was... they are much more nurturing and have an instinct that I don't possess... I mean, it was better with my kids than others, but it is not my natural state. 

Personally, I don't think you need a lot of education to give a child what it needs the first year of life. (That isn't to say that there aren't some people who don't... one of my cousin's comes to mind) ... but i certainly don't think its necessary. hold, comfort, nurture. these are probably more personality/instinct issues ... and feed, clothe, change aren't all that complicated. Later though, i can see your point. 

[raeoflyte]

Apr 11, 2014 10:45:58 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Any mammal, including babies attach to the person doing the caregiving. That always bothered me that the people that care for our kids are generally of lower educational levels and may not be into the type of nurturing a parent is. I think that first year or years up until they are in school are critical.  I often wonder if that is some of the problems we see now is the kids were shuffled around until they have some kind of attachment disorder.  This is just my opinion, nothing behind it just me.

 

I work full time, and went back early with both kids, but my kids are still quite attached to me.  To the point that everyone calls them mama's boy/mama's girl because they pretty much always pick me over everyone else.  Ds is almost 5 and is just now starting to sometimes pick dh over me for activities, even though dh did the daytime care while I was working, so I can't get behind the bolded statement.  I may be gone 45-50 hours a week, but that leaves a lot of hours a week that the kids still need care.  

[muttleynfelix]

I think it is important to realize what your situation may not be someone else's. My siblings and I all have a SAHP situation. My sister, SIL, and DH all stay home. They all came about being SAHP for different reasons.  Why someone else stays home or works is probably for some reason that is something you don't have to deal with. Everyone's employment situation is different - job stability, hours required, commute, etc. Painting someone else into your box is ridiculous.

I'm on a local mom's group that fall more in the line of the group that don't have a "career". They stay home and watch other kids because they were only earning $10 hr.  A lot of them are young. Having their kids young and then go back to school when their kids go to school. It isn't the "YM approved" way, but it seems to work for those who do it. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

So does grandma babysitting count as someone else raising your kids and putting them at risk for attachment disorders? Or are only those of us who use a daycare facility screwing our kids?

Just wondering where the line is.

I don't buy into that crap. DH and I are Gwen's parents and we will always be her parents. Daycare people may come and go but us and our love remains constant. She has no "attachment disorder" after being in daycare for 3.5 years. I find it ridiculous to assume that 40 hrs a week in daycare as an infant is somehow going to over ride us being her parents for her entire life.

[Deleted]

Attachment disorders can develop IF a child doesn't get the proper care in the first years... so its POSSIBLE that if a caregiver were not doing so, it could develop. Its even POSSIBLE that it would be more likely with lower educated populations. However, I don't think that it happening is PROBABLE. But i'm not sure Pat was saying it was going to happen or could possibly happen? ...

I doubt that anyone is going to be hired as a caregiver in this country if they are going to ignore a child to the point of attachment disorder.  

In my cousin's case, I babysat her 9 month old once and you could tell that child never had his needs attended to. He didn't cry at all. I had to put him to bed in a toddler bed, because I didn't have a crib anymore and he didn't even move a muscle, even when he woke up... you could tell his normal position was laying somewhere alone. Made me so sad. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Eh, it doesn't really bother me that much what people think. My MIL has made a few "baby jail" comments and stuff. Of course she frames in reference to my SIL, but you know she's saying the same thing about me.

For whatever reason it once possessed me to try to argue that this isn't 1975, it's 2014. I ended up banging my head against the wall trying to explain to her what Montessori means (my daycare is a modified Montessori).

Whatever, my MIL is entitled to her opinion. She was shaped by the expectations and norms of her time just as I have been by mine. The generational gap is too big for us to reach an agreement on the subject.

I was in a rotten home daycare when I was around 4-5.  This was the late 80's My mom didn't have the tools that I have today to screen daycares.  Word of mouth was pretty much all there was.   To this day my mom regrets putting me in that daycare.  

I have a lot more tools available at my fingertips to research daycares.  It's a lot easier for me to avoid falling into the trap my parents did.   Plus Iowa has some of the toughest regulations in the country when it comes to daycares.

Laws do vary from state to state so you have to be really diligent in researching what the rules are in your area.

Then unlicensed is a whole different beast. I know a lot of people have good experiences with them, but it's a lot harder to control what you get when no oversight is required.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 11, 2014 11:16:57 GMT -5 oped said:

Attachment disorders can develop IF a child doesn't get the proper care in the first years... so its POSSIBLE that if a caregiver were not doing so, it could develop. Its even POSSIBLE that it would be more likely with lower educated populations. However, I don't think that it happening is PROBABLE. But i'm not sure Pat was saying it was going to happen or could possibly happen? ...

I doubt that anyone is going to be hired as a caregiver in this country if they are going to ignore a child to the point of attachment disorder.  

In my cousin's case, I babysat her 9 month old once and you could tell that child never had his needs attended to. He didn't cry at all. I had to put him to bed in a toddler bed, because I didn't have a crib anymore and he didn't even move a muscle, even when he woke up... you could tell his normal position was laying somewhere alone. Made me so sad. 

That is heartbreaking.  

[gooddecisions]

Apr 11, 2014 11:30:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Eh, it doesn't really bother me that much what people think. My MIL has made a few "baby jail" comments and stuff. Of course she frames in reference to my SIL, but you know she's saying the same thing about me.

For whatever reason it once possessed me to try to argue that this isn't 1975, it's 2014. I ended up banging my head against the wall trying to explain to her what Montessori means (my daycare is a modified Montessori).

Whatever, my MIL is entitled to her opinion. She was shaped by the expectations and norms of her time just as I have been by mine. The generational gap is too big for us to reach an agreement on the subject.

I let my MIL tag along to my 2-year old's preschool once. She was blown away. She had no idea they could be so cool. The school has an entire building set up like a village with indoor street lights. Inside, each room has a unique store front designed for its purpose. One is music, one is art, one is drama, one is cooking (real, not fake), one is games/puzzles, one is travel/language, a gymnasium for sports, etc. There are 10 rooms that nursery school, preschool and after-school classrooms go to to enjoy different activities. On top of that, we can sign-up for just about any activity so we don't have to run around doing things like soccer or gymnastics on the weekends or after work. She couldn't believe her eyes and admitted daycares have come a long way from the germ infested, cramped prison environment she envisioned.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Have you met my MIL? Once she has an opinion an act of God couldn't change her mind.

[Deleted]

I know Rae... If I hadn't known they already had a caseworker I would have tried to report... Something... But ultimately it wasn't like the kid wasn't fed or clothes... He wasn't hit... Sigh. This is the cousin half her kids are to man 1 and the second half are to man 1's uncle... And she told me at our great grandmothers funeral that is was cool my sister couldn't make it because she was in Arizona, cause she 'always wanted to travel out of the country'... She had 6 kids. 

Not close cousin. 

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2014 12:08:57 GMT -5 @patstab said:

I said its a possibility and its merely my opinion, so take it how you may.

We never really know what happens behind those closed doors, we all hope its for the best.

Once the child is old enough to express themselves, I think a lot less danger because

you can generally tell if something is off then.

Given that I can swing by at random times and have as have other parents, I do have a pretty good idea about what happens during the day.

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2014 10:02:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I've had a lot people just assume one of us is going to stop working now that we're having two. The assumption is daycare is too expensive. Well yeah it certainly can be, but we sat down a long time ago and decided the costs of one of us not working outweigh the benefits.

<snip>

I just think that making sure you sit down with your spouse to discuss all the pros/cons both long and short term is very important before deciding to leave the workforce.

Yes!  Yes!  I want to scream when someone makes the stay-at-home decision based on current cash flow.  Here's a recent article on the subject (Jerry Miccolis, a co-author, is an actuary by training):

www.fidelity.com/insights/personal-finance/why-you-work-to-pay-the-babysitter

There are many valid reasons for being a full-time parent, but it really bothers me when people ignore a big part of the picture.

[econstudent]

Apr 14, 2014 8:51:46 GMT -5 @gin1984 said:

Apr 11, 2014 12:08:57 GMT -5 @patstab said:

I said its a possibility and its merely my opinion, so take it how you may.

We never really know what happens behind those closed doors, we all hope its for the best.

Once the child is old enough to express themselves, I think a lot less danger because

you can generally tell if something is off then.

Given that I can swing by at random times and have as have other parents, I do have a pretty good idea about what happens during the day.

Same here. The vast majority of parents from our daycare work within a 4 block radius of the daycare, so there is a good bit of parental involvement. I'm over there for lunch several times throughout the week, so I can see the teachers at work. Obviously I can't know as much as I would if I were at home, but it's not like it's a dark place of secrets. I think I speak for most parents when I say that if I didn't feel like I could trust the teachers, my child wouldn't be going there.