Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 25, 2011 15:50:37 GMT -5
think Watsonville and Salinas for Loop and DarkHonor. We paid more to avoid those areas, but if we had decided on the cheaper house, our kids would be in private school. If she can't afford either option, she should probably consider an apartment in a nicer area instead of a house in a crappy one. It's a tough choice though. Actually, Watsonville was more expensive
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 25, 2011 15:53:39 GMT -5
Actually, Watsonville was more expensive Not the parts of town with the really crappy schools. I can still find houses out there that are half as much as ours. I'd probably get mugged once or twice a week just going back and forth from the car to the door, and the kids wouldn't ever be allowed to play outside, but the houses are really cheap.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 25, 2011 16:03:31 GMT -5
And falling apart. You can't get a decent house for the same price.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 16:31:34 GMT -5
The more affluent kids still get a better education than the poorer kids even with "fair" state funding of schools. In my town in NJ they had a private foundation, a charitable organization, which raised money to buy "extras" for the schools. Anyone could donate and it was tax-deductible. A good example of how some school districts will provide a better environment for kids no matter how the state money is spread around.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on Feb 25, 2011 16:39:54 GMT -5
Sounds like you two should house swap. They could pay tuition at your private school or at the non-resident public school. Or they could move. They intentionally purchased in this neighborhood, now they are regretting that decision. Landlording, default, bankruptcy. They have many exit strategies into a better school district. It sounds like they're looking for an easy route instead.
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oreo
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Post by oreo on Feb 25, 2011 19:43:10 GMT -5
I wanted to ask, how much does parent involvement have to do with how "good" a school is? Doesn't that have a lot to do with it? So with that being said, is it almost more important that the parent help the kids learn and ensure they are excelling even in a less desirable school than it is to be at a "good school"?
My kid is only 2 now so I don't really know much about what is going to be important in school (except that we want to try to get into a neighboring school because the test scores are better and it leads into a better-rated high school). I'm also wondering how much say a parent has in school. Can I get my kid in a particular teacher's class or is it just assigned randomly and if I get a less qualified teacher, I'm screwed? That probably varies from place to place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 19:52:00 GMT -5
I wanted to ask, how much does parent involvement have to do with how "good" a school is? Doesn't that have a lot to do with it? So with that being said, is it almost more important that the parent help the kids learn and ensure they are excelling even in a less desirable school than it is to be at a "good school"? One study concluded that this was the most important variable in kids' success at school. There's both the collective and the individual impact. If many parents are volunteering and know the teachers and staff well and feel free to discuss concerns with them, the school is more likely to live up to the high expectations the parents have. There's also the impact of the individual parent, of course. My feeling is that you can only do so much. If they're bored all day or tormented by bullies, you can support them when you're with them and give them challenging things to learn and do at home, but they're at school more than they're at home. Home-schooling is not an option if both parents have to earn a living. So, a decent school has to be part of the picture.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 25, 2011 19:54:32 GMT -5
I wanted to ask, how much does parent involvement have to do with how "good" a school is? Parent involvement, how many parents are present in the home, the educational attainment of the parents, the household income both in total and relative to the median for the area, ethnicity, etc. There are actually a lot of factors that affect how well a kid will or won't do in school on average, and I think a lot of them are actually more important than the school itself. A kid being raised by a crack whore, who's dad is in prison, probably won't turn out all that well no matter where they go to school, yanno? That's the whole reason for district policies to keep kids from outside out. It keeps the "undesirable" students out of the "good" schools. Sure, maybe the only reason the schools are good is because they have a much lower population of poor students, kids that don't speak english, kids from broken homes, or whatever, still doesn't mean you want to add all those problems in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 21:01:46 GMT -5
That's the whole reason for district policies to keep kids from outside out. It keeps the "undesirable" students out of the "good" schools. Sure, maybe the only reason the schools are good is because they have a much lower population of poor students, kids that don't speak english, kids from broken homes, or whatever, still doesn't mean you want to add all those problems in. Yeah, my son had an alcoholic Dad and came from a broken home, but they let him in anyway 'cause Mom could afford the ridiculous property taxes.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Feb 25, 2011 21:07:25 GMT -5
And, those who crow about their schools. I don't get it. How do you know what "the best" school is anyway? And does everyone just assume their child is going to want to be a PhD Rocket Scientist or whatever? So what? Well for me, I want my children to go to a school that is in a high income area which happens to be predominately career oriented, educated people. Good Kids come from good families. I want my childrens peers to be good kids. We have almost no diversity here which is why I think the schools are so wonderful.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Feb 25, 2011 21:08:46 GMT -5
I wanted to ask, how much does parent involvement have to do with how "good" a school is? Parent involvement, how many parents are present in the home, the educational attainment of the parents, the household income both in total and relative to the median for the area, ethnicity, etc. There are actually a lot of factors that affect how well a kid will or won't do in school on average, and I think a lot of them are actually more important than the school itself. A kid being raised by a crack whore, who's dad is in prison, probably won't turn out all that well no matter where they go to school, yanno? That's the whole reason for district policies to keep kids from outside out. It keeps the "undesirable" students out of the "good" schools. Sure, maybe the only reason the schools are good is because they have a much lower population of poor students, kids that don't speak english, kids from broken homes, or whatever, still doesn't mean you want to add all those problems in. Yeah what Dark said!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 7:58:39 GMT -5
And, those who crow about their schools. I don't get it. How do you know what "the best" school is anyway? And does everyone just assume their child is going to want to be a PhD Rocket Scientist or whatever? So what? I started to think about this and realized my definition of a good school isn't what I got but I had a good education anyway! We went to Catholic schools, which were always scraping by for money. DS went to a military boarding school. Same thing. I was going to say that "good" schools offer a wide variety of classes such as foreign languages other than the usual French and Spanish, and have advanced courses in many subjects. That describes the million-dollar Taj Mahal HS he would have attended in the school system that ignored hom and let him fall through the cracks. I doubt he would have been able to take advantage of much of that. What his and my HSs had in common: solid values, parents who wanted their kids to be there so much that they paid for it on top of their local property taxes, the ability to expel kids who didn't want an education, and good teachers who knew that you could take your money or your kid elsewhere if you didn't like the results. If the teachers were ineffective they got fired. There was no tenure. They weren't afraid to impart values. That was one of the purposes of the school. More money from the taxpayers can't buy any of this. Oh, yeah- DS encountered much more diversitry in the military academy than he ever would have in suburbia- kids whose parents cared enough to get them out of public schools and the 'hood in Brooklyn and the Bronx. Because they all wore uniforms and the ones who didn't belong there could get expelled, they worked as a team. That, to me, was one of the best parts of DS's education and it's served him well as he's gone on to college and work.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 8:05:42 GMT -5
There's a lot to be said for that. Most of us were raised that way in a public school setting. If you didn't behave your parents whipped the tar off you and you went back to school and apologized. Then BEHAVED!!!! My public school system was lousy and a faor amount of my teachers were substandard. I still managed to learn quite a bit because it was expected of me and the atmosphere encouraged it. Even a moron teacher can impart knowledge to those willing to learn.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 8:41:40 GMT -5
The OP's friend hasn't asked the OP to help her out. The OP seems to want to get involved. Or feels she should because she planned better or was "luckier."
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 26, 2011 13:29:59 GMT -5
I wanted to ask, how much does parent involvement have to do with how "good" a school is? Parent involvement, how many parents are present in the home, the educational attainment of the parents, the household income both in total and relative to the median for the area, ethnicity, etc. There are actually a lot of factors that affect how well a kid will or won't do in school on average, and I think a lot of them are actually more important than the school itself. A kid being raised by a crack whore, who's dad is in prison, probably won't turn out all that well no matter where they go to school, yanno? That's the whole reason for district policies to keep kids from outside out. It keeps the "undesirable" students out of the "good" schools. Sure, maybe the only reason the schools are good is because they have a much lower population of poor students, kids that don't speak english, kids from broken homes, or whatever, still doesn't mean you want to add all those problems in. Right. Because there are no divorces, no alcoholism, no money problems, and no immigrants in good school districts.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 26, 2011 13:35:12 GMT -5
Well for me, I want my children to go to a school that is in a high income area which happens to be predominately career oriented, educated people. Good Kids come from good families. I want my childrens peers to be good kids. We have almost no diversity here which is why I think the schools are so wonderful. Wow, that is one of the most ignorant, small-minded posts I have ever read, and that is saying something. Its not quite in the same class as the person who stated that the 2004 tsunami only killed terrorists and therefore was OK, but it's close.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 14:22:03 GMT -5
Because she says out loud what others think and are too PC to say?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 15:39:23 GMT -5
Because she says out loud what others think and are too PC to say? Not my attitude at all. As I noted in describing the quality of my son's HS education, it was the attitude of the parents, the structure of the school, the fact that they could enforce values and that the school knew they had competition. Poor teachers could be fired; trouble-making students could be expelled. I paid $12K per year 10 years ago to send him to a school that was probably 30% minorities and I'd do it all over again rather than subject him to our perfect, high-priced suburban system where there was very little diversity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 15:53:51 GMT -5
DH went to a high priced private school and there was much more diversity (in income as well as ethnic background) than there was at my public school.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 16:02:26 GMT -5
If your system was a good one then it was foolish to spend that extra money but if there were problems, then it was worth it. I hope you didn't spend that extra money to just be PC. The school I used to teach in and that my kids went to was wonderful when they went there and even when I started to teach there but it changed, a LOT, and not for the better. No way would I put my kids in there now and some of my friends that still teach there are a little afraid and counting down the days to retirement. You have no idea how bad children/parents can ruin a school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 17:24:29 GMT -5
If your system was a good one then it was foolish to spend that extra money but if there were problems, then it was worth it. I hope you didn't spend that extra money to just be PC. Not at all- that was just a fringe benefit. DS was part of the middle 80%. Not the top 10%, which they treat very well, nor the bottom 10%, which also get a lot of attention. He'd tell me he didn't have any homework, or that he did it all at school. He flunked Phys. Ed because he didn't lock his locker and his gym clothes got swiped so he couldn't take class. To be honest, home was dysfunctional as well. My Ex had been so mean and critical I didn't make enough demands on DS. Anyway, the school system couldn't do much but wring their hands and make noises about ADD. DS really didn't like where he was but didn't know how to get out of the rut, and nothing I did worked. The military school had small classes, individual attention, and many teachers were ex-military who could cut straight through adolescent BS and were empowered to do something about bad behavior. There was a consistent system of rewards and additional privileges for good behavior, and consequences for breaking the rules. Same kid, same dysfunctional upbringing, one school system where he was failing and one where he flourished and graduated an honor student, then went on to graduate from college. I don't like to think what a few more years in the public school system would have done, no matter how well it worked for the bound-for-Harvard kids.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 17:35:20 GMT -5
You made a great choice. I still wish I sent DD to military school, a boarding one!!!!
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 26, 2011 18:39:33 GMT -5
Because she says out loud what others think and are too PC to say? She's certainly not speaking for me. I hope she does not speak for most. Of course, if you want to find that sort of thinking, you can. For example, you could join the KKK and encounter others who believe diversity is a bad thing.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 19:28:52 GMT -5
Oh, that's just precious. Do you feel better now?
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 26, 2011 19:42:06 GMT -5
Precious? I don't understand you.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 19:51:20 GMT -5
Really? I understand you.
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Plain Old Petunia
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bloom where you are planted
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 26, 2011 20:37:19 GMT -5
I'm glad you understand me, that must mean I'm expressing myself adequately. What is precious about being glad your children aren't meeting children of different races?
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chemnerd99
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Post by chemnerd99 on Feb 26, 2011 21:56:08 GMT -5
It's not so much race than it is class. If you can afford to live in a certain neighborhood I don't care if you are purple. You have achieved success, have a drive to see your children succeed and consider education important.
That said (at least in my area) there is a direct correlation between the worst schools and high % free lunch programs and high % of non-white students. It is just facts.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 27, 2011 7:42:55 GMT -5
Amen. If you live in an area where taxes are high because the schools demand a lot of it, you can expect that parents give a hoot about their kids and their education because they could live somewhere else a whole lot cheaper and get "by." The areas are usually safer as well. NOT 100% on either account but it sure does help. That being sad, a fair amount of students in our school district are Bosnian and those parents are tougher on their children than the the rest of the parents because it is the Bosnian students JOB to succeed because their parents are sacrificing a lot for them. Guess what, they don't speak English very well but they are great at showing up to everything and supporting their kids. No trouble from either the parents or the children. Yes, scores are low because of the language difficulty but everyone knows why and no one gives a hoot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2011 8:27:12 GMT -5
You made a great choice. I still wish I sent DD to military school, a boarding one!!!! Actually, DS's was a boarding school. That was part of the benefit, too- he was sort of independent, but with all of his bills paid and some pretty solid boundaries. I was 60 miles away so it wasn't a big deal to either visit him or bring him home on the weekends. I like your example of the Bosnian students- it shows, again, that what's important is not the ethnicity or what language they speak, but the motivation of the students and the parents, that make a high-quality school environment.
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