And just when I posted a pro-gun bit TN shits on my parade

[EVT1]

www.wsmv.com/story/25194837/senate-votes-for-open-gun-carry-without-permit

     NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- The state Senate on Tuesday passed a bill to allow Tennesseans to openly carry guns without a state-issued permit.  The chamber voted 25-2 in favor of the bill sponsored by Republican Sen. Mae Beavers of Mt. Juliet

     Beavers said the measure would maintain the current background checks and training requirements in order to carry concealed firearms, but would allow anyone legally allowed to own a gun to carry it openly without any extra restrictions.

     "The intent of this act is to remove restrictions which may prohibit persons who are not otherwise prohibited from possessing a handgun to openly carry handguns within this state without the necessity of a handgun carry permit," she said.

     Beavers said after the vote that it would be up to law enforcement to figure out whether people carrying sidearm in public were doing so illegally

Genius plan.  How fucking stupid and apparently TN has 2 senators that have any common sense.

To elaborate- TN has a carry permit- not a concealed carry permit- you get the permit you can carry either way.  So now who needs a permit at all unless you want to be smart and not advertise you are carrying?  So any douchebag that has a gun- legal or not- gets to carry it in public and in order to find out if they are not a criminal then the onus is on the police?!?!?!?!  So much for background checks.....Can't wait till all of the gang-bangers start open carrying......Again I am embarrassed by my state.

[Virgil Showlion]

[Sum Dum Gai]

I grew up in the southwest. Open carry has always been legal and doesn't require a permit. Only people who did it were old ranchers.

[Virgil Showlion]

Nearly all states would appear to allow open carry without a permit. Tennessee is just late to the party.

Ironically, Texas and Florida (EVT's home away from home) are two of the states that ban open carry... it's just that nobody cares about the ban in either state.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2014 1:31:36 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

[EVT1]

Apr 9, 2014 1:36:14 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I grew up in the southwest. Open carry has always been legal and doesn't require a permit. Only people who did it were old ranchers.

And that is sensible- Virgil is not familiar with TN gun nuts that wear camos and stroll through parks with weapons in a sling intimidating people, drop their guns in Wal-Mart and have them go off, etc. 

This great plan makes the training requirement go away- so anyone that knows absolutely nothing about a handgun would be able to- for whatever reason good or bad- go into a gun shop and walk out armed putting the public at risk.

Open carry is just dumb IMO.   Someone on a ranch vs. someone at Best Buy- big difference.  The people that took the time to get a permit don't bother me- it's the people that don't want to go through the process and only have open carry as an option that bother me- that forces their guns to be displayed- which is again dumb.

[Sum Dum Gai]

The ranchers who open carry in my hometown do it everywhere. You'd see them in the grocery store shopping with a revolver on their hip.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 9, 2014 11:27:04 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Apr 9, 2014 1:36:14 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I grew up in the southwest. Open carry has always been legal and doesn't require a permit. Only people who did it were old ranchers.

And that is sensible- Virgil is not familiar with TN gun nuts that wear camos and stroll through parks with weapons in a sling intimidating people, drop their guns in Wal-Mart and have them go off, etc. 

This great plan makes the training requirement go away- so anyone that knows absolutely nothing about a handgun would be able to- for whatever reason good or bad- go into a gun shop and walk out armed putting the public at risk.

Open carry is just dumb IMO.   Someone on a ranch vs. someone at Best Buy- big difference.  The people that took the time to get a permit don't bother me- it's the people that don't want to go through the process and only have open carry as an option that bother me- that forces their guns to be displayed- which is again dumb.

The policy to get the guns in the first place still has not changed.  You still need to jump through hoops (considerable) in order to be able to buy the gun.

Have you ever bought a gun?  They ask for everything but your underwear size.  In WA, buying a gun was waaaay more difficult than getting my CWP.

If you think about it, once you have the gun would you prefer to know someone is carrying or not?  As long as they are not brandishing their weapon, then what have you got to be afraid about?  Brandishing your weapon is illegal, regardless of whether you have open carry or even own a CWP.

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2014 1:42:07 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Nearly all states would appear to allow open carry without a permit. Tennessee is just late to the party.

Ironically, Texas and Florida (EVT's home away from home) are two of the states that ban open carry... it's just that nobody cares about the ban in either state.

Actually open carry is currently allowed in AR while on a journey outside of your home county. There was an open carry walk recently through a town about ten miles from my home. About 50 people walked a couple of miles through the center of Mountain Home, AR. while wearing guns in open carry holsters. It was hardly noticed except by our slightly liberal local paper. Most of the people were older, 50+.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2014 13:11:54 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 9, 2014 1:42:07 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Nearly all states would appear to allow open carry without a permit. Tennessee is just late to the party.

Ironically, Texas and Florida (EVT's home away from home) are two of the states that ban open carry... it's just that nobody cares about the ban in either state.

Actually open carry is currently allowed in AR while on a journey outside of your home county. There was an open carry walk recently through a town about ten miles from my home. About 50 people walked a couple of miles through the center of Mountain Home, AR. while wearing guns in open carry holsters. It was hardly noticed except by our slightly liberal local paper. Most of the people were older, 50+.

Good. Too few older folk get enough exercise.

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2014 13:34:36 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2014 13:11:54 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Actually open carry is currently allowed in AR while on a journey outside of your home county. There was an open carry walk recently through a town about ten miles from my home. About 50 people walked a couple of miles through the center of Mountain Home, AR. while wearing guns in open carry holsters. It was hardly noticed except by our slightly liberal local paper. Most of the people were older, 50+.

Good. Too few older folk get enough exercise.

As in a gun belt instead of a weight belt ?

[EVT1]

Apr 9, 2014 11:43:50 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 9, 2014 11:27:04 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

And that is sensible- Virgil is not familiar with TN gun nuts that wear camos and stroll through parks with weapons in a sling intimidating people, drop their guns in Wal-Mart and have them go off, etc. 

This great plan makes the training requirement go away- so anyone that knows absolutely nothing about a handgun would be able to- for whatever reason good or bad- go into a gun shop and walk out armed putting the public at risk.

Open carry is just dumb IMO.   Someone on a ranch vs. someone at Best Buy- big difference.  The people that took the time to get a permit don't bother me- it's the people that don't want to go through the process and only have open carry as an option that bother me- that forces their guns to be displayed- which is again dumb.

The policy to get the guns in the first place still has not changed.  You still need to jump through hoops (considerable) in order to be able to buy the gun.

Have you ever bought a gun?  They ask for everything but your underwear size.  In WA, buying a gun was waaaay more difficult than getting my CWP.

If you think about it, once you have the gun would you prefer to know someone is carrying or not?  As long as they are not brandishing their weapon, then what have you got to be afraid about?  Brandishing your weapon is illegal, regardless of whether you have open carry or even own a CWP.

Guess you haven't been to a gun show.  You can buy them all day in the fairgrounds parking lot.

I have bought several guns- only takes a DL with the correct address on it and there is a quick records check before the sale.

To get a carry permit I had to submit fingerprints, take a class and pass written and shooting tests, pass a strict background check.  I admit the class is easy but people wanting to carry need to be informed on the laws and at least how a damn gun works.

I am not afraid of anyone carrying open- I just think they are stupid- and this plan would make it a lot more common.  Bad idea.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Yeah, I have been to a gun show. There seemed to be a significant amount of paperwork in order to get a gun, legally. If you are going to buy a gun 'under the table', nothing is going to stop that. We had to submit a lot more than just a DL, and unless you had a CWP, you do not walk away with the gun. If the background check comes back ok, THEN you get the gun.

For me to get my CWP, I had to fill out a form, pay my money, submit to background check and submit my fingerprints. No classes. It was a lot harder getting it for Utah, AZ and Oregon. KY you need to actually pass a shooting test.

[EVT1]

Here there is no real paperwork at all- just a valid DL with correct address- and trust me I know about the address thing- I was in the process of buying a shotgun and had moved- no sale- I was pissed off- I wasn't going to lie- I could have though. 

So I had the guy I was with buy it- and they didn't want to sell it to him either because I just tried to buy it- took a manager to sort it out.  I needed a shotgun that night- it was a long while ago- but at the time I was renting and got broken into- and two of my guns were stolen- damned if they were going to come back and rob me with my own weapons- plus the door was effed up and could not secure it very well.

Also here- the CCW is not sufficient to purchase.  The shooting test is a joke- around 50 rounds at various CLOSE distances.  I doubt anyone fails it- you would have to be a horrible shot and have the shakes.  Maybe cross-eyed with a bent barrel.

But- it at least demonstrates operational knowledge and the instructor can jump in when some rookie is being unsafe and call them on it.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I don't get the sentiment that open carry is stupid. It's totally sound self defense. You're far less likely to be mugged or assaulted when the potential assailant sees that you're carrying. A guy walking down the street in a suit might have a concealed handgun under his jacket. A guy walking down the street with his weapon visible in a hip or shoulder holster definitely has a gun on him. Which one would you mug?

[EVT1]

I disagree- but this is a hotly debated subject.  I see it as a tactical disadvantage if people know I am armed- and then of course there are the stupid people I see from time to time carrying with a cheap holster that are just asking to have their weapon taken from them.

Might not get mugged on one hand- might be the first one shot on the other.  I'm not going to do it.  I prefer a low profile. 

[EVT1]

Good article pros and cons of open carry:

www.recoilweb.com/just-because-you-can-27357.html

     In case you are wondering (or just can’t believe it) that is the picture of a young man open carrying a semi-automatic pistol cross draw with a leather snap holster, exhibiting virtually no SA (situational awareness) at all. He is not even aware that someone is openly taking his picture from four steps away.

    "Heh, I gotta tell you the truth…I look at this as a double-edged sword. I think it’s good when people see legitimate people with guns. That’s a good thing. A down side to it is, some of the people that open carry use the term deterrent when they do it, as if seeing someone with a gun will keep the bad guy from committing a crime. Nothing could be further from the truth—bad guys commit crimes all the time in front of cops. Bad guys kill cops, and cops carry out in the open. I would never carry the gun openly…even in place where it was normal, like Arizona, people carry guns openly all the time…but I don’t like giving up the tactical advantage that is concealed carry. If I’m going to draw, if I’m going to get involved, it is going to be on my terms..if five guys with shotguns come in to take the place down, I’m not just going to engage them, I may just stand by and be a good witness. I carry concealed because if I’m going to act it has to be on my terms.” Pat Rogers, EAG Tactical


 “While it may be legal, a lack of weapon retention training and situational awareness would make it foolish to do so, especially in a cheap holster or one lacking true retention. You can have hundreds of hours of training in weapons training, weapon retention training and SA [situational awareness] and still get killed with your own weapon.‘Well it’s my right’ is a pretty stupid reason to get killed.” Aaron Cowan Sage Dynamics

 

 

[Sum Dum Gai]

EAG Tactical and Sage Dynamics both make money teaching handgun classes in states that require that training to get concealed carry licenses. Of course they're anti open carry.

They're biased, but they do have a point. In some cases carrying open could make you a target. In a bank robbery or something you'd be a priority to subdue if you're standing there with a visible weapon.

The most common crimes are property crime, and they're usually attacks of opportunity. Open carry could keep you from being a target. It's like high school, bullies don't pick on the 6'4" 250 pound linebacker. They pick on the 5'2" 80 pound skinny kid. He's a softer target.

[EVT1]

They aren't anti-open carry- they just gave their opinion on it- actually I think the best comment that sums up my position:
 
     “The debate on the pro/cons of open carry has been a contentious issue within the gun community for several years exacerbated by YouTube videos. Without addressing every tick on the pro/con list I’ll just say this: When the time comes to put good rounds on a bad guy, the first indication that I have a defensive weapon should be several CNS hits; not the pistol on my hip.” David Merrill, MilCopp Tactical

BTW I think people with NRA stickers on their vehicles and protected by Smith and Wesson signs in their yards are complete idiots as well- lets the bad guys know exactly where to go to steal a weapon.

I know one thing- like some said- if I am in a 7-11 when someone barges in with a weapon I don't want to be in line with a gun sticking out.  The same goes for being somewhere when a nutcase walks in with an AR-15- don't want to be the obvious choice for the first shot. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

I can see that line of reasoning, but what are the odds of being involved in a robbery versus being the victim of a mugging or assault? I'm guessing the latter is a lot more common.

[AGB]

Apr 9, 2014 19:23:28 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

To get a carry permit I had to submit fingerprints, take a class and pass written and shooting tests, pass a strict background check.  I admit the class is easy but people wanting to carry need to be informed on the laws and at least how a damn gun works.

I am not afraid of anyone carrying open- I just think they are stupid- and this plan would make it a lot more common.  Bad idea.

No permits here to open carry and we're "shall issue" on concealed; a one page application and a $10 fee is all that's needed, pass the background check and you will have a temporary permit within 5 business days. I managed to inform myself on the laws, and I also took it upon myself to learn how my damn guns work. If I wasn't interested in being responsible, I doubt fingerprints, a class and tests would do much to change my mind.

And I don't think LEOs are stupid, but YMMV.

[EVT1]

I don't think they are stupid either- but they are trained on how to open carry- yet some of them are still killed with their own guns- how do you think the average idiot is going to do that has no training? 

[Virgil Showlion]

[AGB]

Apr 13, 2014 15:11:44 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I don't think they are stupid either- but they are trained on how to open carry- yet some of them are still killed with their own guns- how do you think the average idiot is going to do that has no training? 

As one of the average idiots, I am not even familiar with training differences between open and concealed carry. My personal preference is concealed, because even around here, it does draw some attention, which I don't care for. As a woman, I just wish carrying concealed was as simple as carrying open, without purchasing an entire new wardrobe.

[EVT1]

Good plan.

In a lot of places the cops are going to get a 'man with a gun' call and it is not going to be reported as it being in a holster- so just another reason not to- don't want the cops pointing guns at me when I have one in reach. 

[AGB]

Apr 13, 2014 18:35:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Good plan.

In a lot of places the cops are going to get a 'man with a gun' call and it is not going to be reported as it being in a holster- so just another reason not to- don't want the cops pointing guns at me when I have one in reach. 

I can't give you the official statistics, but around here, people don't typically call 911 over a holstered weapon.

[EVT1]

Depends on where you live.  All it takes is one paranoid person to say the wrong thing to 911 to put you in a scary encounter with police.

I just can't see one good reason for open carry- except for very certain limited circumstances.

 

[resolution]

Call me ignorant, but I hadn't realized there were entire states where it was illegal to open carry. I thought it was just a few cities like Chicago and DC. I guess it is just as well that I gave my gun to my dad when I moved to MD, because I hadn't realized you need a permit here.