ANOTHER Fort Hood Shooting

[Waffle]

I was checking the local weather and a breaking news headline came up.  4 dead including the shooter.  link

[mmhmm]

Oh, dear.  Thanks for the link, Waffle.  So very sorry for everyone there. This has to be a really tough thing for them to take.

[EVT1]

Noticed something from the news story- Killeen Texas is the home of Fort Hood.  Did not catch that last time (Previous Ft. Hood shooting), but it is the same city of the Luby's shooting that was worse than the both of them combined.  In fact the Luby's shooting if I remember right had a congresswoman in the mix that had left her pistol in her vehicle and this was the impetus of the carry law there- as in that rare case an armed citizen could have put the guy down.

So the question is- I thought the base changed its security procedures after the last incident- just do not know how.  This was one of their own- and how is it even possible to prevent one of your own from losing it?  I think you cannot.  More guns/less guns matter about zero when someone goes over the edge.  

[jkapp]

Apr 3, 2014 3:39:53 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Noticed something from the news story- Killeen Texas is the home of Fort Hood.  Did not catch that last time (Previous Ft. Hood shooting), but it is the same city of the Luby's shooting that was worse than the both of them combined.  In fact the Luby's shooting if I remember right had a congresswoman in the mix that had left her pistol in her vehicle and this was the impetus of the carry law there- as in that rare case an armed citizen could have put the guy down.

So the question is- I thought the base changed its security procedures after the last incident- just do not know how.  This was one of their own- and how is it even possible to prevent one of your own from losing it?  I think you cannot.  More guns/less guns matter about zero when someone goes over the edge.  

An even scarier thought is if the crazy person didn't have access to a gun, what other weapon would they choose?  A knife?  A baseball bat? Or perhaps a truck full of fertilizer??

[the flying reindeer]

The killer had only recently bought the gun and was undergoing treatment for depression and anxiety. It's too bad that better gun control laws weren't instituted after the Newtown school shooting. Maybe a thorough background check might have showed his mental problems and prevent the purchase.
And kudos to the woman MP who confronted him, which led him to shoot himself.

[mmhmm]

It's a lot easier to sneak a gun onto the base than it is to sneak a truck full of fertilizer onto the base, I'd say.  A knife, or a baseball bat, is going to require the perp to be a lot closer to me than he has to be with a gun, and he can't get near as many people if he has to be right up in their face to do so.  It's also kinda hard to hide and stab someone, or hide and hit them with a baseball bat.  Hiding and shooting them is much easier.  Those are the things that make me think I'd be much less frightened by those possibilities.

[kittensaver]

Damn PTSD

This is a horrible situation for everyone involved

[Tennesseer]

Apr 3, 2014 11:56:34 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Damn PTSD

This is a horrible situation for everyone involved

The news ìs stating the shooter never saw combat during his four months in Iraq.

[Deleted]

wanna bet a number of nco's are talking to their commanders this morning

saying , "i dont care where, but get me outta here"

can you imagine being a wife with kids stationed there?

2 shootings in 4 1/2 years

i guarantee there were a few of those conversations last night and this morning

suddenly Leavenworth Kansas doesnt look so bad anymore......or any other number of places

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 3, 2014 11:43:11 GMT -5 the flying reindeer said:

The killer had only recently bought the gun and was undergoing treatment for depression and anxiety. It's too bad that better gun control laws weren't instituted after the Newtown school shooting. Maybe a thorough background check might have showed his mental problems and prevent the purchase.
And kudos to the woman MP who confronted him, which led him to shoot himself.

From what I heard this morning on CNN, the shooter had limited treatment, for depression, anxiety and sleep problems.  I imagine that 99% of the US deals with these problems at any time or another, so saying that he had mental problems with only those diagnoses is premature IMO.  His appointment with the psychiatrist was just last month.

[Otto the Orange]

Apr 3, 2014 12:10:28 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

wanna bet a number of nco's are talking to their commanders this morning

saying , "i dont care where, but get me outta here"

can you imagine being a wife with kids stationed there?

2 shootings in 4 1/2 years

i guarantee there were a few of those conversations last night and this morning

suddenly Leavenworth Kansas doesnt look so bad anymore......or any other number of places

except it doesn't work like that in the military, NCOs can't just ask their commanders to move......if it worked like that 40% of the military would have left Afghanistan a long time ago....

[jkapp]

Apr 3, 2014 11:54:43 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

It's a lot easier to sneak a gun onto the base than it is to sneak a truck full of fertilizer onto the base, I'd say.  A knife, or a baseball bat, is going to require the perp to be a lot closer to me than he has to be with a gun, and he can't get near as many people if he has to be right up in their face to do so.  It's also kinda hard to hide and stab someone, or hide and hit them with a baseball bat.  Hiding and shooting them is much easier.  Those are the things that make me think I'd be much less frightened by those possibilities.

True...which is why maybe he'd choose a school instead...

[Deleted]

Apr 3, 2014 14:50:17 GMT -5 Otto the Orange said:

Apr 3, 2014 12:10:28 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

wanna bet a number of nco's are talking to their commanders this morning

saying , "i dont care where, but get me outta here"

can you imagine being a wife with kids stationed there?

2 shootings in 4 1/2 years

i guarantee there were a few of those conversations last night and this morning

suddenly Leavenworth Kansas doesnt look so bad anymore......or any other number of places

except it doesn't work like that in the military, NCOs can't just ask their commanders to move......if it worked like that 40% of the military would have left Afghanistan a long time ago....

so the 3 year rule doesnt exist anymore?

domestic post, after 3 years, you could ask to be transferred....it may be to overseas (you couldnt pick and choose, but you could put in the request)

i know i did....and got the hell out of Minot North Dakota

took 47 days from time i asked (but again, this was a, ahem, a few years back)

went from there to Maguire AFB in Jersey 

[mmhmm]

Apr 3, 2014 15:13:17 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Apr 3, 2014 11:54:43 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

It's a lot easier to sneak a gun onto the base than it is to sneak a truck full of fertilizer onto the base, I'd say.  A knife, or a baseball bat, is going to require the perp to be a lot closer to me than he has to be with a gun, and he can't get near as many people if he has to be right up in their face to do so.  It's also kinda hard to hide and stab someone, or hide and hit them with a baseball bat.  Hiding and shooting them is much easier.  Those are the things that make me think I'd be much less frightened by those possibilities.

True...which is why maybe he'd choose a school instead...

I don't play the slippery slope games, jkapp.  I'm looking at this incident alone and not trying to pretend I can see into the future, or know another's intent.  I'll leave that to you.

[EVT1]

  www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fort-hood-shooter-showed-no-sign-of-likely-violence-official-says/2014/04/03/d6d39986-bb30-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html  

     “We have very strong evidence that he had a medical history that indicates unstable psychiatric or psychological conditions,” Lt. Gen. Mark Milley, the commanding general of Fort Hood, said at a news conference. “We believe that is the fundamental, underlying causal factor.”
     The soldier bought the firearm on March 1 from Guns Galore, a store in nearby Killeen, Tex., officials said. The shop is the same one that sold a semiautomatic pistol to Maj. Nidal M. Hasan, the Army psychiatrist and al-Qaeda sympathizer who was carried out a mass shooting at Fort Hood in 2009, killing 13 people.

Wow- that's not good for business....


How about maybe instead of an automatic right to purchase deadly weapons, you have to show you are mentally competent?  Police officers have to go through an exhaustive background check and psychiatric evaluation before they are allowed to patrol the streets armed- why should any Joe shmuck be able to do the same- or let me clarify- there are mental and other conditions on getting a carry permit- but not for purchase.  Maybe the purchase of a weapon should come with similar conditions?  Not saying it would have stopped this- but a denial of purchase very well might have.  Why not do it?  Who would be against making sure gun owners are law abiding and competent- oh right  

[Otto the Orange]

Apr 3, 2014 15:27:18 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

Apr 3, 2014 14:50:17 GMT -5 Otto the Orange said:

except it doesn't work like that in the military, NCOs can't just ask their commanders to move......if it worked like that 40% of the military would have left Afghanistan a long time ago....

so the 3 year rule doesnt exist anymore?

domestic post, after 3 years, you could ask to be transferred....it may be to overseas (you couldnt pick and choose, but you could put in the request)

i know i did....and got the hell out of Minot North Dakota

took 47 days from time i asked (but again, this was a, ahem, a few years back)

went from there to Maguire AFB in Jersey 

Sure the 3 year rule exists....except it is not at "your request".....it is at the needs of the Army and happens automatically (usually).....once you get about 2.5 years into your tour you start negotiating w/ your branch manager (assignment manager) for your next assignment ....this happens whether there is a shooting or not ......of course as with anything there are some exceptions, but this is basically the process

[jkapp]

Apr 3, 2014 20:39:07 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

  www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fort-hood-shooter-showed-no-sign-of-likely-violence-official-says/2014/04/03/d6d39986-bb30-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html  

     “We have very strong evidence that he had a medical history that indicates unstable psychiatric or psychological conditions,” Lt. Gen. Mark Milley, the commanding general of Fort Hood, said at a news conference. “We believe that is the fundamental, underlying causal factor.”
     The soldier bought the firearm on March 1 from Guns Galore, a store in nearby Killeen, Tex., officials said. The shop is the same one that sold a semiautomatic pistol to Maj. Nidal M. Hasan, the Army psychiatrist and al-Qaeda sympathizer who was carried out a mass shooting at Fort Hood in 2009, killing 13 people.

Wow- that's not good for business....


How about maybe instead of an automatic right to purchase deadly weapons, you have to show you are mentally competent?  Police officers have to go through an exhaustive background check and psychiatric evaluation before they are allowed to patrol the streets armed- why should any Joe shmuck be able to do the same- or let me clarify- there are mental and other conditions on getting a carry permit- but not for purchase.  Maybe the purchase of a weapon should come with similar conditions?  Not saying it would have stopped this- but a denial of purchase very well might have.  Why not do it?  Who would be against making sure gun owners are law abiding and competent- oh right  

I have no problems with that...but I would also like the same thing for driving, raising kids, and voting. But, like you said, it end up

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

How about maybe instead of an automatic right to purchase deadly weapons, you have to show you are mentally competent? Police officers have to go through an exhaustive background check and psychiatric evaluation before they are allowed to patrol the streets armed- why should any Joe shmuck be able to do the same- or let me clarify- there are mental and other conditions on getting a carry permit- but not for purchase.

You are asking someone to prove that they are mentally competent. That means that you need to prove that they don't have some sort of mental disease. As you cannot prove a negative, do you make the assumption that if you don't have any one of a bazillion mental disorders, that you're mentally competent?

[Deleted]

We have mass shootings in schools and on military bases.  What's the common denominator here ?  

[mmhmm]

Apr 4, 2014 15:24:07 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

We have mass shootings in schools and on military bases.  What's the common denominator here ?  

... and in theaters, businesses/corporations, courtrooms, shopping malls, public streets ... the list of venues goes on.  Common denominator?  They're shootings. That would say the common denominator is guns.

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2014 15:47:14 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Apr 4, 2014 15:24:07 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

We have mass shootings in schools and on military bases.  What's the common denominator here ?  

... and in theaters, businesses/corporations, courtrooms, shopping malls, public streets ... the list of venues goes on.  Common denominator?  They're shootings. That would say the common denominator is guns.

How do guns shoot people ?

[mmhmm]

Apr 4, 2014 15:56:17 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 4, 2014 15:47:14 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

... and in theaters, businesses/corporations, courtrooms, shopping malls, public streets ... the list of venues goes on.  Common denominator?  They're shootings. That would say the common denominator is guns.

How do guns shoot people ?

You didn't ask for what shot people.  You asked for a common denominator.  I gave you one.

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2014 15:59:15 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Apr 4, 2014 15:56:17 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

How do guns shoot people ?

You didn't ask for what shot people.  You asked for a common denominator.  I gave you one.

I checked the COC and the OP and nowhere did it say one question allowed. So I respectfully ask again. How do guns shoot people ?

[mmhmm]

Apr 4, 2014 16:06:49 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 4, 2014 15:59:15 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

You didn't ask for what shot people.  You asked for a common denominator.  I gave you one.

I checked the COC and the OP and nowhere did it say one question allowed. So I respectfully ask again. How do guns shoot people ?

LOL!  If you don't like the answer, perhaps next time you'd like to tell me what you want me to answer.  Then, I'll make a decision whether that answer is something I want to say, just as I'll decide what questions I wish to answer.

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2014 16:12:19 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Apr 4, 2014 16:06:49 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I checked the COC and the OP and nowhere did it say one question allowed. So I respectfully ask again. How do guns shoot people ?

LOL!  If you don't like the answer, perhaps next time you'd like to tell me what you want me to answer.  Then, I'll make a decision whether that answer is something I want to say, just as I'll decide what questions I wish to answer.

I liked your answer. Very astute. I was just wondering if another one was forth coming ? (You deciding on what you want to say or not is a given to me)

[mmhmm]

In cases like we're discussing, guns shoot people by being loaded and in the hands of some asshat/lunatic who shouldn't have a gun.  That's how they shoot people.

[EVT1]

And I thought bullets were the common denominator

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

[EVT1]

Apr 4, 2014 10:16:52 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Apr 3, 2014 20:39:07 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

  www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fort-hood-shooter-showed-no-sign-of-likely-violence-official-says/2014/04/03/d6d39986-bb30-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html  

     “We have very strong evidence that he had a medical history that indicates unstable psychiatric or psychological conditions,” Lt. Gen. Mark Milley, the commanding general of Fort Hood, said at a news conference. “We believe that is the fundamental, underlying causal factor.”
     The soldier bought the firearm on March 1 from Guns Galore, a store in nearby Killeen, Tex., officials said. The shop is the same one that sold a semiautomatic pistol to Maj. Nidal M. Hasan, the Army psychiatrist and al-Qaeda sympathizer who was carried out a mass shooting at Fort Hood in 2009, killing 13 people.

Wow- that's not good for business....


How about maybe instead of an automatic right to purchase deadly weapons, you have to show you are mentally competent?  Police officers have to go through an exhaustive background check and psychiatric evaluation before they are allowed to patrol the streets armed- why should any Joe shmuck be able to do the same- or let me clarify- there are mental and other conditions on getting a carry permit- but not for purchase.  Maybe the purchase of a weapon should come with similar conditions?  Not saying it would have stopped this- but a denial of purchase very well might have.  Why not do it?  Who would be against making sure gun owners are law abiding and competent- oh right  

I have no problems with that...but I would also like the same thing for driving, raising kids, and voting. But, like you said, it end up

Hell yes on the driving! The test should be a little more than driving around the block. As far as raising kids we do have laws that will take kids away from incompetent parents- and they don't have a lobby organization stopping them either. But voting? Come on- it is a subjective action and what would you do- a literacy test? Or how about something akin to the SAT- call it the VAP? You think our piss poor voter turnout is bad now- add that gem.

[mmhmm]

Apr 4, 2014 21:30:27 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

And I thought bullets were the common denominator

That's another common denominator.