Estate Sales - Maybe Not Always What they Appear?

[milee]

A few houses down from mine is a huge mansion that has a little bit of local fame.  During the real estate boom years, the owners were prominent investment managers and active in the social scene, often throwing lavish charity events there; pictures of the place were often in the paper and used in advertisements of the area so it has high local recognition. In the recession, scandal erupted when it was discovered that the owners weren't investment managers at all, but instead were like Bernie Madoff - Ponzi scammers.  It was like a soap opera when they first denied it with a complicated and interesting story, fled the country, were caught trying to cash a million dollar check in a remote Asian country, spent a year in prison there fighting extradition, were extradited, tried and just recently convicted.  Meantime, their house sat empty.  A neighbor mows the yard and does some basic trimming.  It's finally scheduled for auction this month. 

All of us neighbors were surprised recently when there was a large "Estate Sale" at the house.  Given the soap opera background, the sale attracted a lot of curiosity with hundreds of people turning up over a two day period.  Total zoo.  What was most interesting about the sale, though, was the fact that for the last few years, the house has been empty since representatives of the owners cleared out their belongings long ago.  So what was being sold at the "Estate Sale"?  The sellers brought in multiple truckloads of stuff from somewhere else, staging it in the house - from area rugs on the floors to clothing hanging in the closets - as if those were the belongings of the Ponzi scheming owners.

I can't tell if I think this is slimy or genius.  On one hand, the sellers are using the notoriety of the owners and house to attract customers and also to get that "halo" effect.  Potential buyers are often willing to pay a little more for an item with an interesting back story or that they think was owned by wealthy people, which might imply it's possibly valuable.  The sale wasn't falsely advertised in that the sellers didn't state that the property belonged to Mr. and Mrs. _______ or was from that home, they just put out ads with the address and pictures of the mansion, knowing people would recognize it and the gossip would spread.  Very interesting idea to rent a famous place and hold an "Estate Sale" there, getting rid of who knows what stuff at premium prices.

On the other hand, it seems dishonest to imply that the items are part of the sale of the ____ estate, which clearly was the impression that the sellers were trying to create even though they carefully didn't use those words.  It would be nuts to go through all that work of trucking in stuff if they didn't see a benefit to people thinking it was from that house/owner. 

Am I the only one who didn't know that this happens and am surprised?  Or is this common practice and buyer beware?

   

[Green Eyed Lady]

Perhaps whomever "cleared" out the house was ordered to bring the stuff back so debts/judgments could be settled.  It may be their stuff.

[milee]

Mar 7, 2014 11:48:16 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Perhaps whomever "cleared" out the house was ordered to bring the stuff back so debts/judgments could be settled.  It may be their stuff.

Could be.  That was the one neighbor I didn't know and haven't really kept up with it all. The only way I know most of this stuff is the neighbor that cuts the yard of the house described is retired and likes to gossip. I knew (just like all the other people who read the paper did) about the overall story, remember a few years ago when the big trucks came and cleared the house out and of course noticed the massive Estate Sale since there was so much traffic we couldn't drive out of our driveway for two days, but other than that, this is pretty much what the talkative neighbor told me when he saw me at the mailbox.

He's usually very accurate with his info though.  He's the rare gossip that's both eager to dish but also knows his stuff.  So who knows?  But it does seem weird that they'd remove the stuff from the house, store it somewhere then pay to have it all trucked back and replaced in the house. 

[CarolinaKat]

Perhaps the owners had it cleaned out and the items put into storage, thinking they could eventually sell the stuff when the charges quited down, but then it was seized with the other remaining assets and it made more sense for the company organizing the sale to put everything in the house so it could be shown at once.

[NancysSummerSip]

I'm on the fence about this. I'm thinking the seller wants the house staged just enough, to give it a warm, gently lived-in look, but not so staged that a potential buyer cannot see themselves living in it. And having some stuff in it prevents that empty, echo-ey effect you sometimes get in these really big mansions. We've had a few in the neighborhood like that; people who overbuilt, only to lose them in foreclosure a few months later. We've also been through a few McMansion new builds that just sat on the market. Walking through them is quite an education in what not to do when building a house of any size, I must say.

[CarolinaKat]

NancysSummerSip I think they're selling the items in the house not the house itself.

[Waffle]

I suspect it's slimy. I've been an auction goer for decades and I've heard of this practice before. It's a very "buyer beware" atmosphere - probably some really good pieces and lots of fakes. All of which will probably sell for much more than it's worth because naïve bidders think they are getting something they aren't.

[whoisjohngalt]

You know, Milee, I might be reconsidering my invitation.

You seem to attract some interesting characters to where you live.

[HoneyBBQ]

I know this happens all the time at 'estate sales' because the vendor doesn't have enough items to sell for just one person or family's death - usually much of the good stuff is 'claimed' and they have to make do with the rest. They taken in several families items at once and supplement with 'antiques' and other things from dollar stores, etc. To generate a full house of items. I don't think it's slimy - it is what it is.

[milee]

Lena, it's not me attracting the weirdos - it's Florida.  Nice place but attracts whackadoos, old people, foreign people and the people who prey on them all.

[milee]

Mar 7, 2014 13:17:21 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

I know this happens all the time at 'estate sales' because the vendor doesn't have enough items to sell for just one person or family's death - usually much of the good stuff is 'claimed' and they have to make do with the rest. They taken in several families items at once and supplement with 'antiques' and other things from dollar stores, etc. To generate a full house of items. I don't think it's slimy - it is what it is.

That does make some sense. If there had been stuff in the house that was part of the sale and they were just adding to the stuff already there, that would be reasonable.

[Bonny]

Mar 7, 2014 13:18:58 GMT -5 milee said:

Lena, it's not me attracting the weirdos - it's Florida.  Nice place but attracts whackadoos, old people, foreign people and the people who prey on them all.

I assume you're a fan of Carl Hiaasen's books?

[alabamagal]

Here is the estate sale definition from Wikipedia

An estate sale or estate liquidation is a sale or auction to dispose of a substantial portion of the materials owned by a person who is recently deceased or who must dispose of his or her personal property to facilitate a move.[1]

Maybe they just had all the stuff in storage and had to get rid of it.

Or maybe they were just slimy.

[whoisjohngalt]

Mar 7, 2014 13:18:58 GMT -5 milee said:

Lena, it's not me attracting the weirdos - it's Florida.  Nice place but attracts whackadoos, old people, foreign people and the people who prey on them all.

You just made a great argument for moving out.

I am reinstating my invitation

[Tiny]

Am I the only one who didn't know that this happens and am surprised? Or is this common practice and buyer beware?

I wouldn't be surprised. And in my mind ANY kind of estate/yard/garage sale is buyer beware. I haven't been to a 'everthing is trucked in' kind of 'Estate Sale' but I'm pretty sure some of the estate sales I've been to locally have some additional stuff above and beyond what the owner of the house owned. In other words - some stuff brought in by the company/person handling the estate sale.

I've also seen 'antique stores' have something they call an 'estate sale' where they advertise the 'sale' but it's mostly just to get people in the door of the store - the prices in the store are the same as they were last week and there's no additional discount given at check out.

I'm ok with the practice. But, I guess it can be like finding out that 'meat' at your favorite fast food restaurant isn't 100% animal bits and may contain some gluten or other fillers - maybe even up to 30% filler.    OR that the really great deal you think you got at Kohl's -- 75% off the retail price!!  isn't as good as this weeks 50% off their regular selling price on the same item.  

ADDED:  In other words - you really need to know WHAT you are buying and the possible value of it - you can't make assumptions and you can't always trust a 'sellers' word.  
  

[bookkeeper]

This reminds me of my uncle who owned a furniture store in a small Minnesota town for 20 years. After his kids were grown, he decided he wanted to do something else and had a "going out of business" sale at his store. He quickly realized how much money he was making from the increased traffic and kept going out of business (with even more merchandise) for the next three years.

This gig worked so well that he bought up mom and pop furniture stores all across southern Minnesota and had "going out of business" sales for 2 years or so at each location.

He got really good at both retail sales and commercial property.

Everybody loves a sale!

[bean29]

I don't think any of the "Estate Sale" items were from the Ponzi Scammer.

When Sue Sacheveda embezzeled 34 million from Koss Corp, and the US Marshall's Service Auctioned off her "Loot" to try to recover some of the funds.  They held most of the auction on-line.  The article says Koss Corp has recovered about 9.88 million.  Yikes.

www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2013/08/koss-has-recovered-nearly-10m-in.html

www.usmarshals.gov/news/chron/2011/110411a.htm

www.indiapost.com/jewelry-seized-from-shopaholic-koss-executive-to-be-auctioned/

We figure most of the $$ are stashed in India.

[Waffle]

Mar 7, 2014 13:17:21 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

I know this happens all the time at 'estate sales' because the vendor doesn't have enough items to sell for just one person or family's death - usually much of the good stuff is 'claimed' and they have to make do with the rest. They taken in several families items at once and supplement with 'antiques' and other things from dollar stores, etc. To generate a full house of items. I don't think it's slimy - it is what it is.

I think a lot depends upon how it is advertised. If it's advertised as the Estate Sale of the late great Mr. High and Mighty, buyers expect something totally different than if it's advertised as the items from the estate of Mr. High and Mighty and various consignors.  Reputable auctioneers will add something like "various consignors" in their ads.

[Deleted]

I will say that when businesses have "Going Out of Business" sales, the liquidators bring in excess inventory from other "Going Out of Business" sales.  I worked at Macy's when they closed our store.  (It has since reopened because they rebranded the Rich's in the mall.) 

I thought it was deceitful, and I think what you describe is deceitful as well.  There was dollar store crap that Macy's would never have carried.

[Nazgul Girl]

Mar 7, 2014 12:01:39 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 7, 2014 11:48:16 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Perhaps whomever "cleared" out the house was ordered to bring the stuff back so debts/judgments could be settled.  It may be their stuff.

Could be.  That was the one neighbor I didn't know and haven't really kept up with it all. The only way I know most of this stuff is the neighbor that cuts the yard of the house described is retired and likes to gossip. I knew (just like all the other people who read the paper did) about the overall story, remember a few years ago when the big trucks came and cleared the house out and of course noticed the massive Estate Sale since there was so much traffic we couldn't drive out of our driveway for two days, but other than that, this is pretty much what the talkative neighbor told me when he saw me at the mailbox.

He's usually very accurate with his info though.  He's the rare gossip that's both eager to dish but also knows his stuff.  So who knows?  But it does seem weird that they'd remove the stuff from the house, store it somewhere then pay to have it all trucked back and replaced in the house. 

If the couple were ponzi schemers, they had fled the country, and their house was sitting empty all of these years, it would make sense to me to have the house cleared of valuables.   I'm sure the court had some kind of audit done of their personal effects, and wanted them locked up in a safe place.   If I was a burglar, I'd be happy to go into the empty house of a scammer and make off with his/her stuff.   In fact, I'd get a fake moving company put together with my buddies, and show up and "move" the goodies to a distant state and sell it all off.   Easy enough to do, I'd think.   So, to me, it makes a lot of sense that their belongings were removed from the premises.

[Nazgul Girl]

    The stories about the Koss executive who bought $ 34,000,000 of purses, jewelry and who knows what is fascinating.   How can a company not know that $ 34,000,000 is missing from its accounts ?   This didn't all happen overnight.