In case of a divorce - SWAMP, MID

[Deleted]

OH NO! 
Whether he has a lawyer or not, you have his time in jail on your side. I hope it all works our for you.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Mar 5, 2014 9:18:01 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

OH NO! 
Whether he has a lawyer or not, you have his time in jail on your side. I hope it all works our for you.

MPL. 

[Deleted]

It's really hard to do supervised visitation here.  We don't have any kind of a place that does that except for family services which is $30/hour.  So, I have to take our son there and sit with them.  It's horrible.  He's convinced this is all going to blow over and we're going to be this big happy family again.  He tries to get me to smuggle things into the halfway house (cell phone, weights he's not supposed to have), and keeps telling me to just leave our son there and go run errands or something.  

[Deleted]

Just because he wants things doesn't mean he's going to get them. You stay strong!

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2014 8:46:39 GMT -5 midjd said:

IME when there is fee-churning it's because the client won't listen to the attorney's advice and/or expects an unrealistic result.

I had to laugh when I found that my Ex's attorney fees were higher than mine (maybe $12K compared to $8K). He needed a lot more babysitting. I had a therapist so I didn't need to use my lawyer as a therapist. I frequently faxed things to her (this was before e-mail was all that common), giving me time to put things on paper concisely and giving her time to digest it before returning my call. I'm sure she charged for time reading faxes, but I expected that. It still saved time.

[swamp]

Sometimes "fee churning" is actually the asshole tax. If you're a PITA to deal with, you're getting charged accordingly.

Its also referred to as the ID10T tax.

[milee]

Mar 5, 2014 9:40:47 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's really hard to do supervised visitation here.  We don't have any kind of a place that does that except for family services which is $30/hour.  So, I have to take our son there and sit with them.  It's horrible.  He's convinced this is all going to blow over and we're going to be this big happy family again.  He tries to get me to smuggle things into the halfway house (cell phone, weights he's not supposed to have), and keeps telling me to just leave our son there and go run errands or something.  

Yikes.  Having you be the supervisor for the visitation definitely makes it more difficult for you and probably your son as well.  Can you think of a creative way to get an appropriate visit supervisor without having to pay them? If you're part of a church, can you see if they'll help arrange volunteers for that? Or if you're not part of a church, maybe you could arrange a trading arrangement with a church or other women's help organization - they provide a volunteer to supervise the visits and in exchange you give them the same amount of volunteer hours for their organization?  Something, anything, so you don't have to sit through that.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Or maybe have the visit happen in a public place - library, mall, coffee shop?  Where you can watch them from a bit of a distance?  I don't know much about how halfway houses work. 

[NoNamePerson]

Mar 5, 2014 10:17:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sometimes "fee churning" is actually the asshole tax. If you're a PITA to deal with, you're getting charged accordingly.

Its also referred to as the ID10T tax.

We had that "tax" when I worked for CPA   

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2014 10:46:17 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Or maybe have the visit happen in a public place - library, mall, coffee shop?  Where you can watch them from a bit of a distance?  I don't know much about how halfway houses work. 

Currently even HE is supervised most of the time.  It was 100%, but he just "leveled up" and can now leave the house for up to 30 minutes at a time on his own (basically a walk around the block).  They take him everywhere, church, doctors appointments, the gym.  I don't know if someone actually sits with him and watches him, or waits in the car, but they have to take him. 

Of course, this is temporary, there are 5 levels and he's only been out of jail for a few weeks, plus the max stay at the HH is 3 months.  Once that is done he's going to want his son.  I kind of wish he was one of those Dad's that was fine with not being involved.  Instead he's one that is hyper obsessed with his son and not always a great influence.  He really needs to focus on getting better.  They're doing all kinds of changes to his meds and found out he has a thyroid problem that may be contributing as well. 

[milee]

Mar 5, 2014 10:46:17 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Or maybe have the visit happen in a public place - library, mall, coffee shop?  Where you can watch them from a bit of a distance?  I don't know much about how halfway houses work. 

Depends on the situation, but I'm a worrier and that wouldn't work for me.  If he needs supervision, it's because he either might say something or behave inappropriately or that he might take the child.  Unless the supervisor is sitting right there, he could do any of those things and you couldn't stop them from a distance.

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2014 11:03:04 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 5, 2014 10:46:17 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Or maybe have the visit happen in a public place - library, mall, coffee shop?  Where you can watch them from a bit of a distance?  I don't know much about how halfway houses work. 

Depends on the situation, but I'm a worrier and that wouldn't work for me.  If he needs supervision, it's because he either might say something or behave inappropriately or that he might take the child.  Unless the supervisor is sitting right there, he could do any of those things and you couldn't stop them from a distance.

He's 6'3" 220 pounds.  I know from experience that I couldn't stop him from up close. 

[skubikky]

Mar 5, 2014 9:40:47 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's really hard to do supervised visitation here.  We don't have any kind of a place that does that except for family services which is $30/hour.  So, I have to take our son there and sit with them.  It's horrible.  He's convinced this is all going to blow over and we're going to be this big happy family again.  He tries to get me to smuggle things into the halfway house (cell phone, weights he's not supposed to have), and keeps telling me to just leave our son there and go run errands or something.  

    OMG....delusional or what? 

[milee]

Mar 5, 2014 11:07:32 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 5, 2014 11:03:04 GMT -5 milee said:

Depends on the situation, but I'm a worrier and that wouldn't work for me.  If he needs supervision, it's because he either might say something or behave inappropriately or that he might take the child.  Unless the supervisor is sitting right there, he could do any of those things and you couldn't stop them from a distance.

He's 6'3" 220 pounds.  I know from experience that I couldn't stop him from up close. 

No, but you could slow him down and make enough of a fuss doing it that other people would help. You can't do that from a distance.  Not trying to scare you, just giving ideas based on what I've seen. 

[milee]

Mar 5, 2014 11:02:05 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 5, 2014 10:46:17 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Once that is done he's going to want his son.  I kind of wish he was one of those Dad's that was fine with not being involved.  Instead he's one that is hyper obsessed with his son and not always a great influence. 

This is another reason you really might benefit from having another person be the visit supervisor.  The other person needs to be aware of all the background issues and needs to keep notes from every visit.  That way, when Dad starts saying inappropriate things or acting delusional, you have a witness and records.  It will not carry as much weight if you're the one testifying to this bad behavior, but in a pinch you can start recording the visits and at least making notes on every visit.  If you go that route, be sure your notes are credible and that you note both good and bad things so it doesn't look totally lopsided or manufactured.

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2014 11:12:30 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 5, 2014 11:02:05 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Once that is done he's going to want his son.  I kind of wish he was one of those Dad's that was fine with not being involved.  Instead he's one that is hyper obsessed with his son and not always a great influence. 

This is another reason you really might benefit from having another person be the visit supervisor.  The other person needs to be aware of all the background issues and needs to keep notes from every visit.  That way, when Dad starts saying inappropriate things or acting delusional, you have a witness and records.  It will not carry as much weight if you're the one testifying to this bad behavior, but in a pinch you can start recording the visits and at least making notes on every visit.  If you go that route, be sure your notes are credible and that you note both good and bad things so it doesn't look totally lopsided or manufactured.

The thing is, he seems fine now.  I mean, not FINE, fine, but he's not rambling on about God and hell fire and jumping from one topic to the next.  He doesn't put me down to our son or say/do inappropriate things with him.  The dropping our son off isn't a horrible suggestion as he is in a locked facility staffed with mental health workers.  I just don't know that it's permissible and I don't really want him thinking I'm ok with him having him alone when later he has his own place.

He's been forced clean and med compliant for 5 months now.  But, I still see in him what is going to get him into trouble later.  Mainly a complete disregard for rules and feeling like they don't really apply to him or that he can circumvent them somehow.  When they told him he couldn't have his own weight set in his room he acted like a pissed off 10 year old. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Have you told them that he's asked you to smuggle stuff in for him? 

[CarolinaKat]

Mar 5, 2014 11:23:06 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 5, 2014 11:12:30 GMT -5 milee said:

This is another reason you really might benefit from having another person be the visit supervisor.  The other person needs to be aware of all the background issues and needs to keep notes from every visit.  That way, when Dad starts saying inappropriate things or acting delusional, you have a witness and records.  It will not carry as much weight if you're the one testifying to this bad behavior, but in a pinch you can start recording the visits and at least making notes on every visit.  If you go that route, be sure your notes are credible and that you note both good and bad things so it doesn't look totally lopsided or manufactured.

The thing is, he seems fine now.  I mean, not FINE, fine, but he's not rambling on about God and hell fire and jumping from one topic to the next.  He doesn't put me down to our son or say/do inappropriate things with him.  The dropping our son off isn't a horrible suggestion as he is in a locked facility staffed with mental health workers.  I just don't know that it's permissible and I don't really want him thinking I'm ok with him having him alone when later he has his own place.

He's been forced clean and med compliant for 5 months now.  But, I still see in him what is going to get him into trouble later.  Mainly a complete disregard for rules and feeling like they don't really apply to him or that he can circumvent them somehow.  When they told him he couldn't have his own weight set in his room he acted like a pissed off 10 year old. 

I'm so sorry you're going through this MPL. I agree that you shouldn't leave son with him because that sets a precident that you don't want to have to change with a crazy person on the recieving end. How is your son taking everything?

[NoNamePerson]

I can't imagine what you are going thru but a big   . I am sure this is buried somewhere in other post but how old is your son?

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2014 11:25:53 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Have you told them that he's asked you to smuggle stuff in for him? 

No, but the one time he called and asked about the phone again, I told him I didn't want him to get in trouble, and he asked the staff person there what would happen to him if he got caught with a phone, so obviously they know he's thinking about it.  They told him he would get it taken away and level down, but he told me not to worry because he wouldn't get caught.

My reasoning for saying no is basically I don't want him texting me at all hours of the day and night again, I don't care about him getting in trouble for having one.  Plus, he had destroyed his phone during his arrest and stupid me went out and replaced it with an iphone that my son has been using, and we kind of like it.  But, I did load and hide a couple trackers in it, so probably would be a good one for him to have.

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2014 11:32:55 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I can't imagine what you are going thru but a big   . I am sure this is buried somewhere in other post but how old is your son?

3

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2014 11:27:41 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

Mar 5, 2014 11:23:06 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

The thing is, he seems fine now.  I mean, not FINE, fine, but he's not rambling on about God and hell fire and jumping from one topic to the next.  He doesn't put me down to our son or say/do inappropriate things with him.  The dropping our son off isn't a horrible suggestion as he is in a locked facility staffed with mental health workers.  I just don't know that it's permissible and I don't really want him thinking I'm ok with him having him alone when later he has his own place.

He's been forced clean and med compliant for 5 months now.  But, I still see in him what is going to get him into trouble later.  Mainly a complete disregard for rules and feeling like they don't really apply to him or that he can circumvent them somehow.  When they told him he couldn't have his own weight set in his room he acted like a pissed off 10 year old. 

I'm so sorry you're going through this MPL. I agree that you shouldn't leave son with him because that sets a precident that you don't want to have to change with a crazy person on the recieving end. How is your son taking everything?

The thing he has the hardest time with is older son gets to spend so much time with his Dad.  They're always going to scouting activities or swimming or just hanging out, so he asks me a lot why he can't spend the night at his Dad's or stop for a visit.  I try to make myself go about twice a week for an hour or two.  Sunday afternoon we all three played board games and he fed us lunch.  But, here it is Wednesday already and I'm thinking I SHOULD stop after work, but I don't want to. 

[zibazinski]

Mar 5, 2014 10:17:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sometimes "fee churning" is actually the asshole tax. If you're a PITA to deal with, you're getting charged accordingly.

Its also referred to as the ID10T tax.

Ooh, never thought of that. Well, she paid big for being an asshole but unfortunately, DFs lawyer had to deal with hers so he paid, too.

[Nazgul Girl]

Mar 4, 2014 16:07:40 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Mar 4, 2014 14:54:35 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"He wasnt happy but that what comes when you let someone boo-hoo their way out of a prenup.":::...

Doesn't YM often caution that for long marriages, prenups aren't worth the paper they are printed on?  The problem sounds more like an incompetent/biased judge.

Yup, she cheated and she wanted the divorce until her married boyfriend dumped her. She not only got half but she gets a pissload of alimony until dec of 2016. Plus 2 mil when DF dies. 

   Your post just made my jaw fucking DROP !   I am not making the drop part up !   Holy shit.

[Nazgul Girl]

Mar 4, 2014 17:40:26 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sin is only telling DF's view of the situation from her interpretation. It may not be jumpsuit based on what presentrd to.the judge.

Everyone thinks they got screwed in a divorce.

   I did not get screwed in my divorce.   I did very well, based on our income vs. debt at the time.    My ex really, really wanted that divorce for some happy time with some babe at his work, and he offered me a pretty good deal.   I came out of it quite well, actually, although not as well as Zib's DF's ex.   Holy cow on that one !! 

[Nazgul Girl]

Mar 5, 2014 9:40:47 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's really hard to do supervised visitation here.  We don't have any kind of a place that does that except for family services which is $30/hour.  So, I have to take our son there and sit with them.  It's horrible.  He's convinced this is all going to blow over and we're going to be this big happy family again.  He tries to get me to smuggle things into the halfway house (cell phone, weights he's not supposed to have), and keeps telling me to just leave our son there and go run errands or something.  

  Well, to contest ( at least win ) the right to have unsupervised visits, you have to show that you're qualified to enjoy that privilege, and so far, your ex isn't exactly a winner in that category.   I hope that he cuts out harassing you.  

[zibazinski]

I know. She's lucky DF is such a nice guy. 

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"And as far as cheating, we don't know what happens behind closed doors. I have a friend who cheated on her husband. He wouldn't have sex with her, they did it 7 times in 5 years at her insistence. I'd cheat in that situation too.":::...

Agreed.

...:::"Other than the alimony because of the way she couldn't legally grab his inheritance...":::...

Thats the part that I think is appeal worthy.  If the inheritance is legally off the table, its off the table.  A judge saying "I know I can't give you that, so I'll just rob from another pot to give it to you" is disgusting and outright biased.  I'd be suing that judge and going after his personal assets for repayment.

[8 Bit WWBG]

OMG MPL, I'm so sorry the situation is not getting any better.  You have a lot going on and I hope you are able to come through it!

...:::"No, but you could slow him down and make enough of a fuss doing it that other people would help. You can't do that from a distance. Not trying to scare you, just giving ideas based on what I've seen.":::...

It definitely would take a special person to volunteer for this sort of position.  Being a supervisor to someone who could cause some serious bodily harm is no joking matter.

If you sneak stuff in for him, then doesn't that make you complicit?  You know the rules too.  It would be a shame to hurt your standing or your case.

[midjd]

Mar 7, 2014 8:23:36 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"And as far as cheating, we don't know what happens behind closed doors. I have a friend who cheated on her husband. He wouldn't have sex with her, they did it 7 times in 5 years at her insistence. I'd cheat in that situation too.":::...

Agreed.

...:::"Other than the alimony because of the way she couldn't legally grab his inheritance...":::...

Thats the part that I think is appeal worthy.  If the inheritance is legally off the table, its off the table.  A judge saying "I know I can't give you that, so I'll just rob from another pot to give it to you" is disgusting and outright biased.  I'd be suing that judge and going after his personal assets for repayment.

Judges are immune from personal liability for their legal decisions. If a judge does something like wrongfully incarcerate someone, that person may have recourse against the city/county, and the judge will be disciplined. But think about it - if judges ran the risk of being personally sued by every single person who thought s/he made the wrong decision, you'd never find anyone to take the job.

Judges make mistakes. This is why appeals exist.

Seriously, why all the judicial hate?