GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Mar 2, 2014 11:51:10 GMT -5
Isn't that basically what I am doing? I try to deflect the questions rather than dredge up the past. I'm not speaking the absolute truth because what purpose would the truth serve? But, if I don't tell my full story, is that a lie?
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 11:52:44 GMT -5
Isn't that basically what I am doing? I try to deflect the questions rather than dredge up the past. I'm not speaking the absolute truth because what purpose would the truth serve? But, if I don't tell my full story, is that a lie? It isn't lying to say you felt like you needed a change. No other information is required.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Mar 2, 2014 11:58:41 GMT -5
And if pressed as to why the change was needed? Is it lying to be vague and. On-responsive?
I'm not trying to beat dead horses or split hairs. Just trying to point out that the truth isn't ALWAYS the best route in some specific circumstances where it serves no purpose and its omission harms no one.
Or, am I lying to myself? :-)
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 12:04:39 GMT -5
And if pressed as to why the change was needed? Is it lying to be vague and. On-responsive? I'm not trying to beat dead horses or split hairs. Just trying to point out that the truth isn't ALWAYS the best route in some specific circumstances where it serves no purpose and its omission harms no one. Or, am I lying to myself? :-) If people press for more answers, change the subject. You don't have to lie. They are being rude, and you don't have to acknowledge it.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 2, 2014 16:01:26 GMT -5
A huge part of me believes the truth is always the best route, but absolutely if one has a legal/ethical/fiduciary mandate to be truthful. But, after 54 years on this planet, I have learned that there are times when telling the truth simply isn't harmless, necessary, or appropriate. For example, if you live in a small, rigid, provincial town and, despite your own best efforts to contribute and join in and fit in, you still don't after several years and so move out, why tell acquaintances in your new town the truth behind your move? What purpose would that serve, especially if you've made peace with your decision and are making social inroads in your new hometown? Can't one just spin the situation and simply say "I fell in love with a house" and move on? Why dredge up old hurts and disappointments? Why risk being labelled as a grudge holder? Who exactly is hurt here by not telling the absolute truth? Similarly, if you fought your way through a very difficult, traumatic, and confusing situation and still don't know all the details of why it happened the way it did and how you got sucked into it and it can be read from several polar opposite viewpoints, can you not respond to questions about it with different answers -- depending upon your audience -- without being untruthful? Can your genuine confusion and deep wish to avoid falling one again unwittingly into such a horrific situation not yield contradictory responses? I don't mean to be vague or clear as mud here. My point is, sometimes when you try and move on from a genuinely bad and impossible situation you can only really do so by leaving out a lot of the awful truth in conversations. Otherwise, you look like you're stuck when really you're just leaving it all behind. The truth can sometimes trap you as much as it is said that it can set you free. Telling the truth is not, in my mind, equivalent to spilling one's guts, GRG. If someone moves into a new place they aren't obligated to anyone to say they left their previous home because they were unhappy there. Perhaps, there are other reasons why they chose this particular town, eh? Maybe, as you said, they fell in love with a house. That's not a lie. They did fall in love with a house. If asked why they chose this particular town, I'm sure there are more reasons than "we just didn't like the other town". If someone had a bad event come to pass in their lives, there's no need to share that with anyone. That's personal. I'm quite comfortable in situations like that one with just saying something like: "I'd really rather not discuss that. It's in the past." That would be truly leaving it all behind.
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 16:18:52 GMT -5
You can always change the subject by paying the other person a compliment. You can compliment the town on a wonderful quality it possesses. I like the convenience of this city. The much larger one nearby causes me to spend a lot more time driving around when I run errands.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Mar 2, 2014 20:38:35 GMT -5
I dated a guy who lied about everything and I mean everything. When he was caught in an obvious lie he would make some lame excuse that made no sense at all. But the strange part is he had no emotional response when caught most people get defensive upset or angry but he was totally detached from it. Even in his questionable actions when caught doing something it was as if in his mind it was someone else doing it. I found it very bizarre I have known liars but he took it to a weird level I am pretty positive he had some sort of detachment personality disorder (if there is such a thing).
My DH I would not call a liar he never lies about what he is doing or has done or anything of importance. But he does this thing when we have a conversation about politics or sociology he takes a side he really does not believe in. I would not call it lying but I feel he is not honest in his own thoughts and feelings. He does tell me he is doing it because it makes the conversation more interesting in his opinion....but I would like to have a meaningful conversation to get to know his ideas better not join debate club. It really bothers me and I feel deceived.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 22:12:10 GMT -5
And if pressed as to why the change was needed? Is it lying to be vague and. On-responsive? I'm not trying to beat dead horses or split hairs. Just trying to point out that the truth isn't ALWAYS the best route in some specific circumstances where it serves no purpose and its omission harms no one. Or, am I lying to myself? :-) My mother used an expression "ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies" to explain why she wasn't obligated to respond to inappropriate inquiries with the truth. If someone asks me questions about why I make certain choices that don't involve them in any way, I'm not obligated to tell them the truth. If a response like "needed a change" doesn't cut them off, try a smile and thanks for being so concerned about you. Or as we say here in the South, "Ah, bless your little heart, you are just such a sweetheart to care about me like that! Now darling, tell me how you came to be here - I'm just dying to hear all about your story". Most folks are truly dying to talk about themselves, just be prepared to duck out to the bar or the bathroom once you get them started. For those of you not fluent in Southern speak, bless your little heart is polite shorthand for "you are so full of it" and "stuff it" all rolled together.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 2, 2014 22:14:59 GMT -5
I dated a guy who lied about everything and I mean everything. When he was caught in an obvious lie he would make some lame excuse that made no sense at all. But the strange part is he had no emotional response when caught most people get defensive upset or angry but he was totally detached from it. Even in his questionable actions when caught doing something it was as if in his mind it was someone else doing it. I found it very bizarre I have known liars but he took it to a weird level I am pretty positive he had some sort of detachment personality disorder (if there is such a thing).
My DH I would not call a liar he never lies about what he is doing or has done or anything of importance. But he does this thing when we have a conversation about politics or sociology he takes a side he really does not believe in. I would not call it lying but I feel he is not honest in his own thoughts and feelings. He does tell me he is doing it because it makes the conversation more interesting in his opinion....but I would like to have a meaningful conversation to get to know his ideas better not join debate club. It really bothers me and I feel deceived. Have you told your DH how it makes you feel when he does this? If so, what's his response?
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 22:21:37 GMT -5
Shelby, if it is the way he is going to act, you might want to just not discuss it with him. Eventually, he'll express his own opinion. It may come 3 words at a time but he'll do it.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Mar 2, 2014 22:23:33 GMT -5
Shucks when I say bless your little heart I really mean kiss my ass sweet thing that I am!!!
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 2, 2014 22:31:36 GMT -5
Shucks when I say bless your little heart I really mean kiss my ass sweet thing that I am!!! Here, "Bless their heart", and "Bless your heart", mean you are dumber than dirt.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Mar 2, 2014 22:48:06 GMT -5
I dated a guy who lied about everything and I mean everything. When he was caught in an obvious lie he would make some lame excuse that made no sense at all. But the strange part is he had no emotional response when caught most people get defensive upset or angry but he was totally detached from it. Even in his questionable actions when caught doing something it was as if in his mind it was someone else doing it. I found it very bizarre I have known liars but he took it to a weird level I am pretty positive he had some sort of detachment personality disorder (if there is such a thing).
My DH I would not call a liar he never lies about what he is doing or has done or anything of importance. But he does this thing when we have a conversation about politics or sociology he takes a side he really does not believe in. I would not call it lying but I feel he is not honest in his own thoughts and feelings. He does tell me he is doing it because it makes the conversation more interesting in his opinion....but I would like to have a meaningful conversation to get to know his ideas better not join debate club. It really bothers me and I feel deceived. Have you told your DH how it makes you feel when he does this? If so, what's his response? Yes I told him it bugs me, he is pretty stubborn and still insists the conversation is boring unless he plays devils advocate. I pretty much know when he is doing it and I just respond "uh huh sure" and stop talking.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 2, 2014 22:53:10 GMT -5
Have you told your DH how it makes you feel when he does this? If so, what's his response? Yes I told him it bugs me, he is pretty stubborn and still insists the conversation is boring unless he plays devils advocate. I pretty much know when he is doing it and I just respond "uh huh sure" and stop talking. Hoo, boy! Gotta wonder where he got the idea it's all about him. He's fortunate you're as understanding as you are. I'd not be near so nice. If I'd wanted to talk to my SO about something I felt was important and he'd said something like that, he'd have been carrying his head in a basket! You need to make it very clear to him that your needs and interests are just as important as his. If he doesn't care to believe that, it can be shown to him quite clearly. When he wants to talk about something, you can tell him with a smile he's just too boring to listen to so you're going to do something else. Grrrrr to the max!
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Mar 3, 2014 0:01:20 GMT -5
Yes I told him it bugs me, he is pretty stubborn and still insists the conversation is boring unless he plays devils advocate. I pretty much know when he is doing it and I just respond "uh huh sure" and stop talking. Hoo, boy! Gotta wonder where he got the idea it's all about him. He's fortunate you're as understanding as you are. I'd not be near so nice. If I'd wanted to talk to my SO about something I felt was important and he'd said something like that, he'd have been carrying his head in a basket! You need to make it very clear to him that your needs and interests are just as important as his. If he doesn't care to believe that, it can be shown to him quite clearly. When he wants to talk about something, you can tell him with a smile he's just too boring to listen to so you're going to do something else. Grrrrr to the max! Yes he can be very frustrating and selfish when it comes to certain things. Because he knows it all and everyone else just doesn't get it. I pretty much just roll my eyes, he knows I think it is ridiculous and annoying. I am not so much understanding as much as I can see the humor in it all. Luckily he can laugh at himself and does understand he is being ridiculous, or else I probably would have killed him by now.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 3, 2014 2:02:42 GMT -5
Within context, perhaps.
I am really big on honesty, going both ways, but do not necessarily believe in "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" in all situations. I do not lie myself because I don't have to. Not only do I live my life in a way that makes lying unnecessary, but I do not believe that other people are entitled to know everything just because they ask and I can easily avoid or deflect a question if I choose. The general rule is that you may ask any question you wish. I may or may not answer (depending on whether I believe you have a right to know and who else may be hurt by an answer) but anything I do say will be the truth. In return, I ask you to be certain that you truly want to know the answer. I may also reserve the right to ask the same question in return.
With kids, I am also one who believes and will tell them that no matter what the consequences of an action will be, those consequences will always be much worse if they lie to me about it. It is okay to make a mistake, but don't compound the error by lying.
With relationships, I have told some before that, "You can do whatever you want. I don't own you and I don't want to, but if you lie to me, we're through." I have always believed that if you don't have honesty in a relationship, you really don't have anything at all.
But back to the quote, "telling the truth" and "not lying" are not equivalent terms. That distinction may indeed be beyond the scope of any situation prompting the OP but I think it really should be made in general.
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