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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 11:39:15 GMT -5
You're not taking into account how the others feel about your bigotry. YOU might be OK going to their houses, but THEY might not be OK having you come over.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 26, 2014 11:46:55 GMT -5
Bigotry turns my stomach. I'd have a hard time hanging out or being civil with people I knew to be so prejudiced. We're kind of going through a similar situation in my family now... My sister-in-law is gay and has been dating a wonderful girl for about 5 years now. A month or so ago, my MIL received a letter at her home (addressed to SIL) blasting SIL for posting about God and church on her Facebook page, and saying that SIL shouldn't bother going to church since she's hell-bound anyway. We still don't know who sent the letter, but DH, MIL and I all had a quick gut instinct that it was one of DH's aunts. If we ever find out that she was the one who sent it, the family Christmas gathering is going to get a lot smaller.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 26, 2014 12:02:23 GMT -5
You're not taking into account how the others feel about your bigotry. YOU might be OK going to their houses, but THEY might not be OK having you come over. Reading comprehension pls. I said my bigots friends were bigots and I was so we are going to be ok. IF other group doesn't want me it is not my problem. I have friends! However if they want me I would come and enjoy and behave. I said that like 3 times btw...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 12:04:48 GMT -5
Third time's the charm!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 26, 2014 12:06:51 GMT -5
Ok. We got some clarification in addition to Looney's scenerio. Let me see if I understand this:
1. I'm part of a group of people that have always socialized together. The group includes a gay couple. 2. Newbies move in and are quickly included in the social events. They happily accept. 3. Newbie's turn to host and she excludes gay couple because of her beliefs. 4. I have always had an issue with the gay couple because of my values but have never said anything. 5. I now have to decide if I want to continue socializing as I always have or stand up for my beliefs and refuse to participate in the ostrasization of the new couple.
There are several issues here. First of all, I don't consider it "bigotry" for having a different set of values than someone else. Secondly, I'd have to consider if it was morally acceptable for me to ostrasize ANYBODY for their set of beliefs/lifestyle - whether it is the gay couple or the new couple.
I can't answer, because the above sceneio would never apply to me. I play ball with gay women. They are awesome and way fun! I can't imagine a situation where I would not want to be around them or that my values would allow me to be awful to them. Whether or not I approve of their lifestyle isn't the issue. It doesn't really matter what I think. What matters is how I act. If someone told me they didn't want to play ball on my team any longer because they don't agree with the lifestyle of our catcher and left-fielder, I guess I just have to say, "That's your decision. Please make it only after you've sat down and had a beer or two with them and discover who they are as people rather than judging them on who they have sex with. If, after that, you feel the same way? See ya."
There is only one Judge...and I ain't Him.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 26, 2014 12:18:29 GMT -5
All it really takes is making a concerted effort to treat others with dignity and respect, regardless of their life choices or worldview.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 26, 2014 12:28:41 GMT -5
Ok. We got some clarification in addition to Looney's scenerio. Let me see if I understand this: 1. I'm part of a group of people that have always socialized together. The group includes a gay couple. 2. Newbies move in and are quickly included in the social events. They happily accept. 3. Newbie's turn to host and she excludes gay couple because of her beliefs. 4. I have always had an issue with the gay couple because of my values but have never said anything. 5. I now have to decide if I want to continue socializing as I always have or stand up for my beliefs and refuse to participate in the ostrasization of the new couple. There are several issues here. First of all, I don't consider it "bigotry" for having a different set of values than someone else. Secondly, I'd have to consider if it was morally acceptable for me to ostrasize ANYBODY for their set of beliefs/lifestyle - whether it is the gay couple or the new couple. I can't answer, because the above sceneio would never apply to me. I play ball with gay women. They are awesome and way fun! I can't imagine a situation where I would not want to be around them or that my values would allow me to be awful to them. Whether or not I approve of their lifestyle isn't the issue. It doesn't really matter what I think. What matters is how I act. If someone told me they didn't want to play ball on my team any longer because they don't agree with the lifestyle of our catcher and left-fielder, I guess I just have to say, "That's your decision. Please make it only after you've sat down and had a beer or two with them and discover who they are as people rather than judging them on who they have sex with. If, after that, you feel the same way? See ya." There is only one Judge...and I ain't Him. nonononono Look, GYL... Scenario: I am a bigot. And I am ashamed of it. I want it to be gone but I can't change me. I am respectful to all people (don't laugh, just pretend). I am however do not hate or judge people who are bigots (well, how can I judge my people, right?)... So no one knows I am bad person. I am not telling anyone. However when I am among 'my people' I do not mind them and when I am among others I do not mind them as well. So I am basically a chameleon? Right? So what am I supposed to do with my true feelings?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 26, 2014 12:31:07 GMT -5
You can have an opinion without choosing a side... not everything is black-and-white. There are more options that only being "for" or "against" something. I'm not sure having an opinion on an issue qualifies as "picking a side." I would think you only "pick a side" if you're engaging in formal debate on a topic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 12:33:14 GMT -5
Feel them? Since you are not outwardly rude to anyone there's not much to do. I would hope that the more you hang out with the "undesirables" the more you'd come around to accepting them, but if not at least you're not being rude about it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 26, 2014 12:38:48 GMT -5
I don't have an answer for you. I can tell you what I do. I keep them to myself (usually) if voicing them is going to hurt somebody. At least in RL. I'm not always so kind here.
Example: An acquaintance of mine recently had an abortion. I understand her reasons. However, I'm as opposed to abortion as anyone can be. She decided, at a girls-get-together-lunch to announce what she had done. Why? No clue. She was having second, third and fourth thoughts about her choice. Honestly? My head was saying, "Of course you are feeling awful. You just killed a baby." My mouth didn't say it because it would have been pointless. It was a case of having strong feelings, but keeping them to myself in order to avoid hurting someone who was already hurting enough.
We don't always have to say what we are thinking or feeling. There's nothing wrong with just keeping one's mouth shut sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 12:40:31 GMT -5
Heck ya!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 26, 2014 12:41:22 GMT -5
....and as soon as I figure out how to do that....
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 26, 2014 12:45:46 GMT -5
We don't always have to say what we are thinking or feeling. There's nothing wrong with just keeping one's mouth shut sometimes.
You're entitled to your feelings and beliefs. That doesn't mean you need ot act on them or agree with how someone else behaves. I wouldn't agree with excluding the gay couple at all, but at the same time it's the host's right to invite whom they please. It would depend on how it's handled. If I'm going to be roped into anti-gay bashing and be expected to agree with the host and her cronies I would decline invitations to party with them. If they keep their mouths shut and I otherwise like them I'd attend. Same for parties where the gay couple is at. I'd attend those too as long they don't turn into a bash fest over people who aren't invited. I'm NOT going to get involved in a Hatfield/McCoy type feud. I'm free to be friends with and socialize with whomever I please. You don't like it then you're free to not associate with me.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 26, 2014 12:48:47 GMT -5
Drama raises an excellent point. It would definitely depend on the conversation at the events. Nothing pisses me off more than a group getting together and bashing people. I wouldn't participate in an event that included that childish nonsense.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 26, 2014 12:48:48 GMT -5
....and as soon as I figure out how to do that.... I knowwww.... Actually I can keep my mouth shot on many serious issues but I can't when it comes to crap that is easier. So I would never hurt anyone's orientation or race. However I can get on everyday stuff and go on and on and on...you know
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 26, 2014 12:50:48 GMT -5
Drama raises an excellent point. It would definitely depend on the conversation at the events. Nothing pisses me off more than a group getting together and bashing people. I wouldn't participate in an event that included that childish nonsense. be honest. You like gossiping...but you know it is bad so you are trying to be as good as you are pretty so you wouldn't get involved. right?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 26, 2014 12:52:02 GMT -5
Me, too, Loony. You aren't alone. As I've stated before, if I've had a particularly bad day, that governor between my brain and mouth disappears. It's a pitiful excuse but true, nonetheless. I know how I should behave. Believe me, my mother has told me often enough! I just don't always succeed.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 26, 2014 12:54:27 GMT -5
Drama raises an excellent point. It would definitely depend on the conversation at the events. Nothing pisses me off more than a group getting together and bashing people. I wouldn't participate in an event that included that childish nonsense. be honest. You like gossiping...but you know it is bad so you are trying to be as good as you are pretty so you wouldn't get involved. right? I'm being absolutely honest. I HATE it. I'm not all that good, nor am I all that pretty. I hate it. I'm not perfect and I've participated in it before - and I hate myself when I do it. It's ugly. It's something that I focus really hard on not doing. It's childish and mean, and one demeans themself by participating. It says WAY more about the participant than the target. ETA: In fact? I've done it just recently. I look back and wonder why. I guess I was feeling so crappy that I wanted someone else to look worse. I don't know. Pretty shitty, huh?
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 26, 2014 13:05:50 GMT -5
be honest. You like gossiping...but you know it is bad so you are trying to be as good as you are pretty so you wouldn't get involved. right? I'm being absolutely honest. I HATE it. I'm not all that good, nor am I all that pretty. I hate it. I'm not perfect and I've participated in it before - and I hate myself when I do it. It's ugly. It's something that I focus really hard on not doing. It's childish and mean, and one demeans themself by participating. It says WAY more about the participant than the target. ETA: In fact? I've done it just recently. I look back and wonder why. I guess I was feeling so crappy that I wanted someone else to look worse. I don't know. Pretty shitty, huh? Its a human nature! There is nothing ugly or un-human about it. People like to talk about other people. Imagine all these unemployed journalists if people didn't like gossip? I was kind of hating myself for it at youth age. Then later in life I was like...do I really think less about this person we just gossiped about? Not at all! If I see this person right after we just talked about them - I have no bad feelings about them. So I am thinking it is no harm talk. Unless of course it is vicious something - than I would be against it...
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 26, 2014 13:06:59 GMT -5
LOL! I guess that's true.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 26, 2014 13:12:12 GMT -5
Spot-on answer. The bigots can go party like it's 1929. And go party all alone, for that matter.
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