Prejudizm and bigotry in us

[tloonya]

I am sure all of us have prejudice or bigots demons in us. However if even sorry about it and admitting it to oneself and the whole world - HOW are you supposed to deal with it?

[swamp]

By treating everyone with respect.

[tloonya]

Feb 25, 2014 15:55:45 GMT -5 swamp said:

By treating everyone with respect.

I see and it is doable but (it is inspired by Dear Abby latest letter) what if people around you getting sided for and against somebody?
Not like beat them up but not to include somebody in mutual gatherings? Would that be terribly bad to side with a group that actually more up your alley or pull yourself by the hair to side with a group that does the opposite just to be 'nice'?

[Green Eyed Lady]

Good question, Loony.  We all have prejudices whether we like to admit them or not.  I certainly have them, but I do my best to keep telling myself that it's wrong, and I keep doing my best to treat everyone with respect.  I don't "side" with anything I am strongly against - regardless of popular opinion.  For example, I'm not going to march in a Pro-Choice rally just to be nice.  But neither am I going to treat those who do with less respect than I treat others.  We don't have to agree with a person's opinions, lifestyles, etc, to treat them with dignity.  But sometimes, it's tough!

[mmhmm]

I find it most helpful to avoid getting clumped into groups.  I'm an individual, not a hive member.  If someone is being treated poorly by a certain group of people, I want nothing to do with that group of people.   If another group of people are getting involved and agitating the situation, I don't want anything to do with them, either.  I will remain neutral and offer my friendship to the person who's being treated poorly; however, I'll do it only without becoming involved in the drama.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Why do we have to pick sides? 

[Green Eyed Lady]

We pick sides constantly in life.  Even when we vote, we are picking sides.  If you are asked whether or not you think abortion/same sex marriage/legalization of pot/capital punishment, etc should be legal, and you respond, you are picking sides.  I guess if you never have an opinion about anything ever, you may not ever pick sides, but I don't know anybody like that.

[midjd]

You can have an opinion without choosing a side... not everything is black-and-white. There are more options that only being "for" or "against" something.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

I don't feel that having an opinion is the same as 'picking sides'.  First off, many opinions aren't nearly that cut-and-dried.  I may feel that the government doesn't spend our tax money well, but I also understand the logic and purpose behind many programs it does fund.  My opinion on the subject may not jive with any given 'side', so I don't need to pick one.  I pick a little bit of them all!

Secondly, having an opinion or feeling a certain way on a subject doesn't mean you must act on it either.  I may like or dislike the person in Looney's scenario, but I don't have to pick a side to throw in my lot with arbitrarily.  I can stay out of it entirely, or I can understand both sides' POV, or I can choose to create a third side. 

[tloonya]

From what I had understood there was a neighborhood that had had gatherings from time to time. Than 'new family' moves in and some are inviting them to a next gathering after which some (let's say half of the neighbors) are expressing their unwillingness to party with 'new family' anymore.
So neighborhood got divided.
What would you have done? Continuing to party with FOR 'new family' half or with AGAINST 'new family' half?
Remember that you only being 'nice' to everyone but inside of your head you are agree with AGAINST group.

Of course you are maintaining 'good morning' and 'how are you' with 'new family' and acting respectful and civil.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Oh pooh.  Argument - for the sake of argument - is something I refuse to participate in.  If you have a third, forth, fifth or hundreth side - that's fine.  It's still a side you are choosing.  Nobody said anything about there only being two sides.  I suppose if someone is completely wishy-washy and never decides how they feel about something, they may never choose sides.  I stand corrected. 

[Deleted]

I read that one!

I think the problem was that everyone included the new family until it was the letter writer's turn to host and they excluded them because they don't agree with their "lifestyle".  And the LW was accused of being prejudice. Which they are. 

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

I'd invite the new family over for dinner, then decide if I want personally to be friends with the new family or not. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Feb 26, 2014 10:38:45 GMT -5 tloonya said:

From what I had understood there was a neighborhood that had had gatherings from time to time. Than 'new family' moves in and some are inviting them to a next gathering after which some (let's say half of the neighbors) are expressing their unwillingness to party with 'new family' anymore.
So neighborhood got divided.
What would you have done? Continuing to party with FOR 'new family' half or with AGAINST 'new family' half?
Remember that you only being 'nice' to everyone but inside of your head you are agree with AGAINST group.

Of course you are maintaining 'good morning' and 'how are you' with 'new family' and acting respectful and civil.

I'd stop "partying" with any of them because they are acting like children and I "party" with adults.  That being said, I would still remain respectful and civil when our paths crossed. 

ETA:  I would make my own invitation to the new family and make my own decision on whether or not I wished to socialize with them - as someone else already said.

[Deleted]

PREJUDICE!

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Feb 26, 2014 10:42:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Oh pooh.  Argument - for the sake of argument - is something I refuse to participate in.  If you have a third, forth, fifth or hundreth side - that's fine.  It's still a side you are choosing.  Nobody said anything about there only being two sides.  I suppose if someone is completely wishy-washy and never decides how they feel about something, they may never choose sides.  I stand corrected. 

I disagree that it's wishy-washy or impossible.  I think there are many grey areas to life, and 'choosing sides' is often not mandatory.  You disagree with that, and that's cool! 

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't disagree, Rocky.  Choosing sides is often not mandatory.  I never said that it was.  I said we all do it at some point.  I did use the word "constantly" and that wasn't the word I meant to use.  I meant "consistently" but I haven't had a lot of coffee yet.  I don't choose sides each and every time, but I do it consistently.  That's the point I was trying to make.  I can see how my use of the wrong word implied otherwise.

[tloonya]

Feb 26, 2014 10:42:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Oh pooh.  Argument - for the sake of argument - is something I refuse to participate in.  If you have a third, forth, fifth or hundreth side - that's fine.  It's still a side you are choosing.  Nobody said anything about there only being two sides.  I suppose if someone is completely wishy-washy and never decides how they feel about something, they may never choose sides.  I stand corrected. 

Well...do not forget you used to be friends with your old neighbors and enjoyed your time together.
Should you be missing it just because they had decided to go with their wishes and it is happen to be your wish as well.
However they had been firm about it and certain. You...want to be fair and nice. Should you miss all the fun just because

[tloonya]

Feb 26, 2014 10:42:43 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

I read that one!

I think the problem was that everyone included the new family until it was the letter writer's turn to host and they excluded them because they don't agree with their "lifestyle".  And the LW was accused of being prejudice. Which they are. 

I can't find it. I actually had not read it. Just read about it. Link pls

[Deleted]

I have no problems being friends with people who don't see the world the same way as I do. These people cannot, apparently. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Feb 26, 2014 11:03:32 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Feb 26, 2014 10:42:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Oh pooh.  Argument - for the sake of argument - is something I refuse to participate in.  If you have a third, forth, fifth or hundreth side - that's fine.  It's still a side you are choosing.  Nobody said anything about there only being two sides.  I suppose if someone is completely wishy-washy and never decides how they feel about something, they may never choose sides.  I stand corrected. 

Well...do not forget you used to be friends with your old neighbors and enjoyed your time together.
Should you be missing it just because they had decided to go with their wishes and it is happen to be your wish as well.
However they had been firm about it and certain. You...want to be fair and nice. Should you miss all the fun just because

Obviously, I'd have to know the exact situation, but if we are speaking of my former group of friends excluding a couple because of something that doesn't concern me, I'd have to say that I would no longer enjoy our time together.  Now.  If that new couple were a pair of child molesters, that would certainly change my opinion, but I don't think that's the case here.

So in answer, I guess I wouldn't be missing out on the fun because it would no longer be enjoyable for me to hang out with people who are so mean to others for a reason that doesn't concern them.

That's the best answer I can give with the lack of details and coffee!

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Feb 26, 2014 11:03:32 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Feb 26, 2014 10:42:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Oh pooh.  Argument - for the sake of argument - is something I refuse to participate in.  If you have a third, forth, fifth or hundreth side - that's fine.  It's still a side you are choosing.  Nobody said anything about there only being two sides.  I suppose if someone is completely wishy-washy and never decides how they feel about something, they may never choose sides.  I stand corrected. 

Well...do not forget you used to be friends with your old neighbors and enjoyed your time together.
Should you be missing it just because they had decided to go with their wishes and it is happen to be your wish as well.
However they had been firm about it and certain. You...want to be fair and nice. Should you miss all the fun just because

I can hang out with the neighbors (all whom I wish) if I want by inviting them to my house for fun and recreation.  I dont' need to invite those I don't want to spend time with.  And I don't need to get involved in the neighborhood drama of other people's choosing. 

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2014 11:04:15 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Feb 26, 2014 10:42:43 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

I read that one!

I think the problem was that everyone included the new family until it was the letter writer's turn to host and they excluded them because they don't agree with their "lifestyle".  And the LW was accused of being prejudice. Which they are. 

I can't find it. I actually had not read it. Just read about it. Link pls

I read it in the paper. Let me see what I can find online...

Here ya go:

DEAR ABBY: My husband and I relocated to Florida a little over a year ago and were quickly welcomed into our new neighbors' social whirl. Two couples in the neighborhood are gay -- one male, one female. While they are nice enough, my husband and I did not include them when it was our turn to host because we do not approve of their lifestyle choices. Since then, we have been excluded from neighborhood gatherings, and someone even suggested that we are bigots!

Abby, we moved here from a conservative community where people were pretty much the same. If people were "different," they apparently kept it to themselves. While I understand the phrase "when in Rome," I don't feel we should have to compromise our values just to win the approval of our neighbors. But really, who is the true bigot here? Would you like to weigh in? -- UNHAPPY IN TAMPA

DEAR UNHAPPY: I sure would. The first thing I'd like to say is that regardless of what you were told in your previous community, a person's sexual orientation isn't a "lifestyle choice." Gay people don't choose to be gay; they are born that way. They can't change being gay any more than you can change being heterosexual.

I find it interesting that you are unwilling to reciprocate the hospitality of people who welcomed you and opened their homes to you, and yet you complain because you are receiving similar treatment.

From where I sit, you may have chosen the wrong place to live because it appears you would be happier in a less integrated neighborhood surrounded by people who think the way you do. But if you interact only with people like yourselves, you will have missed a chance for growth, which is what you have been offered here. Please don't blow it.

[mmhmm]

Feb 26, 2014 10:38:45 GMT -5 tloonya said:

From what I had understood there was a neighborhood that had had gatherings from time to time. Than 'new family' moves in and some are inviting them to a next gathering after which some (let's say half of the neighbors) are expressing their unwillingness to party with 'new family' anymore.
So neighborhood got divided.
What would you have done? Continuing to party with FOR 'new family' half or with AGAINST 'new family' half?
Remember that you only being 'nice' to everyone but inside of your head you are agree with AGAINST group.

Of course you are maintaining 'good morning' and 'how are you' with 'new family' and acting respectful and civil.

I'd do what I've always done.  If having a neighborhood party, everyone in the neighborhood is invited.  If they want to come, they'll come.  If they don't want to come, that's certainly their choice.  Won't affect the party, or my feelings toward anyone.

[tloonya]

Feb 26, 2014 11:07:07 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Feb 26, 2014 11:03:32 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Well...do not forget you used to be friends with your old neighbors and enjoyed your time together.
Should you be missing it just because they had decided to go with their wishes and it is happen to be your wish as well.
However they had been firm about it and certain. You...want to be fair and nice. Should you miss all the fun just because

Obviously, I'd have to know the exact situation, but if we are speaking of my former group of friends excluding a couple because of something that doesn't concern me, I'd have to say that I would no longer enjoy our time together.  Now.  If that new couple were a pair of child molesters, that would certainly change my opinion, but I don't think that's the case here.

So in answer, I guess I wouldn't be missing out on the fun because it would no longer be enjoyable for me to hang out with people who are so mean to others for a reason that doesn't concern them.

That's the best answer I can give with the lack of details and coffee!

A PAIR? One is bad enough. Don't double size it GYL!


See...'it would no longer be enjoyable for me to hang out with people who are so mean to others for a reason that doesn't concern them.
'
...the problem is that YOU are also a closeted prejudist (in my scenario). And deep inside you are with the people who are excluding people. So why should you go against yourself...and stop enjoying what you are enjoyed and start enjoying what turns out your guts

[mmhmm]

Thanks, @beerwench!  That certainly clarifies the issue.  I think Abby's answer is dead on!  

[Green Eyed Lady]

Yikes!  I'm in the closet?  I don't know if I can answer that!  Off the top of my head?  If I truly felt the other couple were not people I wanted to socialize with for whatever reason, I suppose I would continue with the group of friends that were like-minded.  I guess I can't say for sure because unless that new couple was something pretty horrendous, I'd decide if I wanted to socialize with them based on their personality and not their lifestyle.

Damn, Looney!  You are making me think and be all wishy-washy!

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2014 11:15:40 GMT -5 tloonya said:

...the problem is that YOU are also a closeted prejudist (in my scenario). And deep inside you are with the people who are excluding people. So why should you go against yourself...and stop enjoying what you are enjoyed and start enjoying what turns out your guts

Go ahead and exclude people if they turn your guts. Just don't be surprised if/when your neighbors stop coming around.  


You are allowed to do what you think is right and they are allowed to do the same. If they think they don't want to hang out with someone with your convictions then you have to deal with that.

[tloonya]

Feb 26, 2014 11:16:28 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Thanks, @beerwench!  That certainly clarifies the issue.  I think Abby's answer is dead on!  

yes! It is right answer. I am not an Dear Abby but I could give it as well.
I am looking for the honest one. Politically incorrect. Why can't we just open up?

[tloonya]

OK. I'll go first.
I would still enjoy my bigot friends company. because I am actually the one of them.
I would also go to the party where 'new family' is welcome and enjoy that as well.
Because I can hide my feelings and I can smile and ask 'how are you doing?' and compliment them on their shoes and stuff.
So...what was I asking? Actually it would work for me anyway right?