So F#$Ked up (trigger about something in the community)

[muttleynfelix]

I don't get it. This whole story is just insane.

www.news-leader.com/interactive/article/20140219/NEWS01/302190097/Timeline-of-Hailey-Owens-abduction?sf23008830=1

I am still sitting here 22 hours after I first heard the story and it makes less sense now than it did then. The suspect works in the school district (although not at the child's school).  Was he just trolling different neighborhoods (the abduction was across town from his house), did he snap, WTF. He goes back to his house and kills her?  He was caught less than 4 hours after the abduction. It was the lead news story from 6pm on.  Has he hurt other kids and no one knew it?   I mean you don't just work with kids for 15 years and go out and randomly abduct one.  I guess the good news about him not being dead yet is that maybe they'll get some answers. I don't know the kid or the family and I'm still just wondering WTF.  My boss's wife works at the school the girl went to (it is a K-8 school and my boss's wife with the Junior high kids).  She says it is a funeral there today. 

[kcladyjane]

Yeah I was shocked to hear about this today when I got to work...so sad and scary.  I am glad we are moving out of Springfield in a couple of months to a rural town. 

[NancysSummerSip]

Mutt, I've worked in the criminal justice system, still do. And for as long as I have, there are some things I've understood on an intellectual level, but never on an emotional one. This is one of them. Keep in mind that I do not have children when you read what I say.

Many of these perpetrators have things in their pasts that no testing on earth uncovers. Sociopaths and psychopaths can lie their way through the best of the tests designed to screen them out of schools, hospitals and other settings. They have no conscience, no understanding of right or wrong. Don't get the idea that I am defending this guy, or anyone who does this. The science is still out on whether child rapists/murderers are born to do this or develop the tendency due to their own early environment, or are they lashing out in anger at some totally unrelated slight, and the fact that they happen to use a child to do so is simply opportunistic.
In other words, is he mentally unbalanced, on some kind of drug trip, was he abused himself, did someone close to him die, does he think this child "insulted" him in some way by refusing his advances, or did some ex-wife/ex-girlfriend him and leave him alone in the world? Or, as many would suggest/hope/think, is this guy simply evil?

I grieve for your community, as I do for any other that goes through this. As any sane person would. And I am glad they got this guy. There is no way of knowing if he planned to continue to kill or not. At least he is off the streets. And I will not suggest, as some will that the healing can now begin. When a child dies, regardless of how it happens, I cannot fathom how there is healing. But as I said, I don't have children.
 

[shelby]

Sorry this happened so close to home for you. Very scary, at least he was caught. I didn't read the article I usually can't bring myself to read these types of things.

[Angel!]

My guess is that when things went badly & he realized there were witnesses that he immediately killed her thinking that would keep him from getting caught.  No one can prove it was him if she isn't alive to tell & they can't find a body. 

So sad. & scary.  I just have to remind myself that things like this & school shootings are extremely uncommon.  Although it doesn't help when you realize you know people that live in the neighborhood where something like this happened.  Or when a school shooting occurs at your old HS like was the case with a recent shooting.  It makes it feel like it is everywhere & you just want to protect your kids from the world.

[muttleynfelix]

Rukh - That is my thought. That he knew immediately he was caught and killed her as soon as he knew he was caught.

Nancy - I appreciate the insight.  

[Angel!]

What bothers me is they say that an autopsy is needed to confirm identity.  WTF did he do to her that they can't confirm identity by looking at her.  Or is that standard procedure to say such things?

[Miss Tequila]

It is so sad and scary to read about this anywhere but it seems worse when it hits close to home.

I will never understand how anyone can hurt an innocent child :-(

[JustLurkin]

Feb 19, 2014 17:51:25 GMT -5 Angel! said:

What bothers me is they say that an autopsy is needed to confirm identity.  WTF did he do to her that they can't confirm identity by looking at her.  Or is that standard procedure to say such things?

   I logged in intending to ask the same thing.

[Jaguar]

This is just so sad. It's these types of cases that I can never forget. I can't understand either how anyone could hurt an innocent child.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 19, 2014 17:51:25 GMT -5 Angel! said:

What bothers me is they say that an autopsy is needed to confirm identity.  WTF did he do to her that they can't confirm identity by looking at her.  Or is that standard procedure to say such things?

I suspect that it's standard procedure.  They probably don't need to do an autopsy, but will go with dental records and that does take some time.

A friend of mine used to do this......

[Tiny]

Totally off topic and TOTALLY RHETORICAL: but isn't "innocent child" redundant? Aren't all children "innocent"? Or are some little kids NOT innocent? Is it easier to understand how someone could hurt/kill a child who has lost their 'innocence'? Or, if it was a kid who "got what they deserved"?

Language and custom are funny that way I guess.

[milee]

Feb 19, 2014 18:16:58 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Totally off topic and TOTALLY RHETORICAL: but isn't "innocent child" redundant? Aren't all children "innocent"? Or are some little kids NOT innocent? Is it easier to understand how someone could hurt/kill a child who has lost their 'innocence'? Or, if it was a kid who "got what they deserved"? 

Tiny Speck, although I completely agree with you that children are innocent and no child deserves to be hurt, it's not exactly a given that others feel that way.  It's especially troubling when adults who should know better fail to recognize that no matter how they appear or what they've done, children are still children and deserve protection. Like the judge in Montana who sentenced a 47 year old male teacher who raped a 14 year old student to only one month in prison because the 14 year old acted more mature than her age... www.cnn.com/2013/11/30/justice/montana-rape-30-day-sentence/

It's only been very recently that police departments are starting to change their approach to child prostitution.  In the past, when the police arrested 15 year old prostitutes, they treated the girls like criminals instead of the victims of trafficking that they are.   

[milee]

I probably didn't explain it very eloquently since I don't write well about things when I'm pissed off, but the point I'm trying to make is that even in our supposedly enlightened society, we don't do a very good job protecting girls from predators. We even go so far as to consider it the girls' fault when they are victimized.  When it is socially acceptable in mainstream settings to blame teen girls for their own victimization, why are we so shocked that a few whack jobs take it the next step and feel that it's OK to prey on girls a few years younger than the teen whores we vilify? 

[swamp]

We aren't enlightened.  Every sex abuse victim is questioned about what they did and why it happened. 

ETA :  I think that response may have an element of self preservation in it. People don't want to think they could be a victim, and they would never do the "dumb" things that lead to the attack. 

[swamp]

Feb 19, 2014 17:43:15 GMT -5 Angel! said:

My guess is that when things went badly & he realized there were witnesses that he immediately killed her thinking that would keep him from getting caught.  No one can prove it was him if she isn't alive to tell & they can't find a body. 

So sad. & scary.  I just have to remind myself that things like this & school shootings are extremely uncommon.  Although it doesn't help when you realize you know people that live in the neighborhood where something like this happened.  Or when a school shooting occurs at your old HS like was the case with a recent shooting.  It makes it feel like it is everywhere & you just want to protect your kids from the world.

You're thinking rationally and trying to apply it to an irrational situation.  People that do shit like this aren't rational.  

[Shooby]

The sad thing is that even though this was witnessed in broad daylight and quick leads , they still could not save her life.

[Jaguar]

Feb 19, 2014 22:07:19 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The sad thing is that even though this was witnessed in broad daylight and quick leads , they still could not save her life.

it's so sad.

[muttleynfelix]

Feb 19, 2014 21:01:07 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 19, 2014 17:43:15 GMT -5 Angel! said:

My guess is that when things went badly & he realized there were witnesses that he immediately killed her thinking that would keep him from getting caught.  No one can prove it was him if she isn't alive to tell & they can't find a body. 

So sad. & scary.  I just have to remind myself that things like this & school shootings are extremely uncommon.  Although it doesn't help when you realize you know people that live in the neighborhood where something like this happened.  Or when a school shooting occurs at your old HS like was the case with a recent shooting.  It makes it feel like it is everywhere & you just want to protect your kids from the world.

You're thinking rationally and trying to apply it to an irrational situation.  People that do shit like this aren't rational.  

That is what keeps getting me. I want it to make sense. Like he hadn't spent 15 years working for the school district. Like maybe he knew the girl or lived in the neighborhood or something.  But there is nothing logical. Why go back to your house which is across town?  He could have been in Kansas/Oklahoma/Arkansas/Illinois/Kentucky or Tennessee in just those 3.5 hours. Why stay?  Hell, go hide in the national forest.  Anyway, I guess I need to just accept it as a tragedy and move on, but my brain wants something about it to make sense and nothing does.

[milee]

Feb 19, 2014 22:07:19 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The sad thing is that even though this was witnessed in broad daylight and quick leads , they still could not save her life.

We had a similar sad case in a nearby area, but it was an adult, not a child.

The woman was kidnapped by a neighbor, who took her to his home and raped her.  After a few hours, he tied her up in the backseat of his car and drove over to his cousins house, asking to borrow a shovel, flashlight and can of gas.  Although the cousin thinks this is an odd request and sees the rapist push down a young woman into his car, the cousin handed over the stuff and continued on with his day.  Meanwhile, while the rapist was talking to the cousin, the victim managed to find the rapist's cell phone and call 911.  Although the victim does talk to 911, the rapist discovered the phone and took it away.  During this time, the woman's husband arrived home, discovered she was missing (and her children left unattended) and called the police - the woman's father was either a sheriff or some sort of policeman. 

As the rapist drove away from his cousin's home, another driver noticed something odd about his passenger and also called 911.  The woman caller gave a clear description of the car and location, reporting what she believes is a child being kidnapped (the woman abducted was very tiny.)  There was a jurisdictional error and 911 never released the call to the police in the area.  A few hours later, the kidnapper shot the woman and buried her in a hole that he dug with the shovel borrowed from his cousin.  Horrible.  Especially horrible for the family knowing how many chances there were to save her.

[zibazinski]

[Wisconsin Beth]

Feb 19, 2014 17:51:25 GMT -5 Angel! said:

What bothers me is they say that an autopsy is needed to confirm identity.  WTF did he do to her that they can't confirm identity by looking at her.  Or is that standard procedure to say such things?

That was my thought too Angel. 

[tloonya]

Feb 19, 2014 22:24:55 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Feb 19, 2014 21:01:07 GMT -5 swamp said:

You're thinking rationally and trying to apply it to an irrational situation.  People that do shit like this aren't rational.  

That is what keeps getting me. I want it to make sense. Like he hadn't spent 15 years working for the school district. Like maybe he knew the girl or lived in the neighborhood or something.  But there is nothing logical. Why go back to your house which is across town?  He could have been in Kansas/Oklahoma/Arkansas/Illinois/Kentucky or Tennessee in just those 3.5 hours. Why stay?  Hell, go hide in the national forest.  Anyway, I guess I need to just accept it as a tragedy and move on, but my brain wants something about it to make sense and nothing does.

There was that thing about 19 y/old who claiming she killed over 100 people.
She wanted to be captured because she wanted it to end.
He probably made his peace with some demons of his and just waited...

I am keep wondering IF these things happening more often then before or it is media?

[haapai]

I wouldn't read too much into the refusal to identify the body without an autopsy.  I suspect that this has become the standard procedure for all traumatic child deaths. 

It's easier on the parents.  It also removes any objections to an autopsy that parents may have, which is extremely helpful when the parents hate each others' guts or child abuse is suspected.