To Masters or not to Masters? UPDATE post 19

[Deleted]

As you all know we live in France. DD is in a five-year Masters program in Hotel Management. She is in the last semester of her 3rd year, so Gd willing she will get her Bachelors degree in June. (A Bachelors degree is 3 years here).

I assumed she would have to apply to her Masters program, but I was wrong. If her grades are OK (and they are) the school assumes she will continue there and get her Masters. BUT, DD has to justify her choice to the school (by the end of the month), with a registered letter. She has 3 options: 1. tell the school she wants to stop after 3 years and go out on her own, 2. tell the school she wants to stop after 3 years and get their help for a 6-month management internship, or 3. to continue for two more years to get her Masters. She originally wanted to do option 1, I convinced her to do option 2, she agrees it's better. 

DD has ALWAYS struggled academically, since pre-school. She was still non-verbal at 4, she has had a BOATLOAD of assorted therapies. She transferred to a vocational (hotel management) HS because she couldn't hack mainstream HS. She is literally the ONLY child from her vocational HS graduating class to go college.

Here is my question. I am THRILLED with all DD has accomplished! To me it's a miracle that her Bachelors degree is in sight, she's on track to get it. She will be SO much better off professionally with it. She LOVES working, and she's great at what she does. She presents well, she is bilingual, she has had a bunch of fantastic internships. I'm NOT worried about her future.

But, DH is still trying to railroad her into staying and doing the Masters. He keeps bringing it up, telling her she'll have better jobs / earn more money if she gets her Masters. (He's not wrong, it's true.) DD keeps blowing him off, and so do I. At this point we have both told him, enough, just STFU! Not everybody is university material. DD wasn't at first glance, but it was important to all of us, she knew that, and she made tremendous efforts. Now she's nearly there, and hopefully she will get through.

DH feels we got her through her Bachelors, we can get her through her Masters too. One crucial difference though: DD WANTED to do a Bachelors, BUT SHE ABSOLUTELY DOESN'T WANT TO DO A MASTERS. I think she *may* change her mind at some point in the future, once she's been working for a while, but that it's not going to happen now or anytime soon. DH is TOTALLY CONVINCED that when DD sits down to write that letter, she will magically change her mind.

Any thoughts?

ETA: Money is NOT the issue here.

ETA2: I edited to add the third option, stopping in June + doing a 6-month management internship.

[swamp]

I think your DH is being an idiot.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I understand where your DH is coming from in that it is MUCH harder to go back than it is to continue on.  That being said, she needs to want to do the work.  If she doesn't, then it is very likely she may fail out and the failure might make it more difficult (administratively) to go back if/when she actually WANTS to go get it.

[souldoubt]

I think if she doesn't want to do it I wouldn't push her to.  The fact that she will be getting her bachelor's considering what she's overcome as far as struggling is damn impressive and something to be proud of.  To me a sure fire way to have an adult fail or burn out is to put them on a course they don't want to be on.  Not everyone is meant to get their masters just like not everyone is meant to go to college.  I had a discussion with a family member recently who in only in a manner he's capable of was taking digs at me for not being interested in getting my masters.  I know the benefit would outweigh the cost in the end but I've already got 2 professional licenses, have over 10 years experience working in my field and most importantly am very content with where I'm at.  To him and other people reason be damned they just consider a masters a must and that's what happened with bachelors degrees some time back.  That's why I ran into people who were at college going through the motions because their family wanted them there but they had no interest in it.  

Edit - If someone really wants their masters later they will find a way to make it happen.  If you start a family or financially can't pull it those are roadblocks but I've worked with a lot of people who got their bachelors, worked for 2-3 years then got their masters.  Some of them didn't think they would get their masters but decided to pursue it after a few years of getting real world experience.  

[Deleted]

I'm glad you agree. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy LOL. 

Swamp, frankly, I agree.

Soul, thank you, that's exactly how I feel.

Mich, it's true, it's much harder to go back. But, what can you do? She will be nearly 22 if / when she gets her Bachelors. At this point, she is entitled to make her own decisions. Although she is not academic, she is not stupid. She has talked to people in the industry, she talks to her fellow classmates, the school gives "talks" on their different Masters programs. Whatever decision she makes, it will be an informed one. 

DH loves her to bits, he wants the best for her. But in this situation, I definitely think he is wrong. He'd be getting dangerously close to alienating her, if he didn't help her so much with her homework LOL. 

[busymom]

If her heart isn't in it, I don't believe she'll put in a good effort. Better to get a Bachelor's, & stop for now. If, in time, she sees the value in further schooling, then she'll put the appropriate effort into getting a Master's.

BTW, I think you're an awesome Mom for helping her! 

[Deleted]

Busy, that's how I feel ... DH and I have both worked hard with her all these years, but so has she, because she REALLY WANTED this. 
Thank you, and same to you! 

I'm going to bed now, I'll be back tomorrow after work. 

[mmhmm]

Your DH is forgetting the old adage about leading a horse to water.  If DD doesn't want to continue for her Masters, trying to force her to do so is only going to result in failure.  Failure is certainly not something she needs after having worked so hard and done so much more than might have been expected.  She needs to be congratulated for her wonderful accomplishment, then treated like the young adult she is and allowed to make her own decisions and her own way.  It's my guess your DH knows this in his heart.

[Deleted]

mmhmm, you're right, he probably does. But you put it beautifully, and I will quote you if I need to to DH.  

I don't get why he doesn't "get it", it seems so obvious to me. But that is a very convincing argument, so thank you.

[mmhmm]

You're welcome, debthaven.  I really do believe your husband knows this in his heart.  He just wants the very best for his girl, that's all.  In this case, though, what would be best for him isn't best for her, necessarily.  She's a different person, and her own person.  She'll build her pride, and her identity from her decisions and her accomplishments.  All he needs to do is love her and give her credit for all she's achieved.  She'll do the rest.

[The Captain]

So here's a question - what is it that drove your DD to REALLY want the bachelors?  Are those factors absent from the Master's program?  If so, then life is too short to do something you would hate.

One other thing to consider, though, is will the Master's give her more options since - by your own admission, she may be limited to her options due to what she can accomplish in the learning arena (and remember, you should never stop learning).

[Bonny]

Debt,

One other thing I might add is your DH is English. As you know, like the French , schooling in England is very structured. We here in the US are a lot more focused on work experience especially with a career like the one your DD is pursuing. We know of many, many people who pursue graduate studies post University. He probably doesn't and may think this is her last chance.

He loves her but he needs to let her go and make her own way in the world. Otherwise, like you say, he's going to alienate her.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I wouldn't push her into a master's.   Drop-out/burn-out rates in graduate programs are pretty high and most of these people WANT to be in the program.  The grade requirements are much tougher, if your DD struggled getting her bachelor's she'll have an even harder time with a graduate program.

I also agree with Mich it can be harder to go back later.  I dwaddle over the idea of getting my master's.  It would have been a lot easier to go straight thru than do it now part time with a family at home.

That being said having practical work experience is to my advantage.  I messed up my grades transferring, I ended school with a 2.8.   Being in a lab for seven years shows I know what I am doing, my course work matters less and less.  If I can get published, which should happen soon, my school grades will be barely a blip on the radar screen.

Also my employer pays my tutition.  That's not a perk to sneeze at.

Working in my field has also shown me I have no desire to be a professor.  I can change courses A LOT easier at the technician level than I could if I have my PhD.  As my boss puts it a graduate degree can sometimes close a lot more doors than it opens.

I understand where your DH is coming from but it should be your DD's decision.  Getting her feet wet before entering into a specialized graduate program is not a bad thing.  She may find she wants to pursue a different avenue later on that wouldn't be available if she "gets it done and over with" now.

[Deleted]

Thank you very much for all your responses. 

So here's a question - what is it that drove your DD to REALLY want the bachelors?

Captain, I've been thinking about your question all day, and the honest answer is, I really don't know. I'm guessing it's because we set that expectation for her, and convinced her that it was important (she didn't need much convincing). Her two older brothers both have Masters degrees, so not going to college probably wasn't much of an option. Writing that out seems harsh, but she went along with the plan willingly.  

I've mentioned a few comments from here to DH. He says, "Nonsense! DD knows I only want what's best for her!" But knowing DH, that comment aside, I think he will FINALLY start to "back off" now. 

I don't remember who asked this, but her school DOES offer a Masters program that is totally aligned with what DD wants to do. I pointed that out to her when she came back from CA. She said no way, I said I think you'd benefit from it, but fine. End of story. The issue is not that the school doesn't offer what DD wants to do, the issue is that DD is totally fed up with (struggling with) school. 

At this point, to me, it's totally her call. To me (but not to DH) yes, it really is that simple! DD knows what the pros and cons are, but she just doesn't want to be in school anymore, to struggle, to spend her evenings and weekends studying. She was MUCH happier during her internship in CA, even if the work was rather menial. Which is why she agreed it would be better to finish in June AND opt do a Management internship through her school's placement office. So (to me), that was our "compromise". 

The other thing is, MANY (all?) of the larger hotel groups have their own in-house training programs. It is still a field where degrees are not the only thing that count.

Again, thanks for all your help and advice!

[The Captain]

Good luck to your DD, it sounds like she has some strong backers in her court.

[NoNamePerson]

Is DH afraid that if she doesn't stay in school and get Masters that she will get a job and move away from home? 

This is asked under the assumption that she is still living at home now. Sorry don't know the back story so just asking blind.

[Deleted]

Thanks Captain.

Is DH afraid that if she doesn't stay in school and get Masters that she will get a job and move away from home?

She still lives at home. She wants to go abroad when she's done (not difficult in that industry). We know that and we're fine with it. 

[Deleted]

i vote yes

April in Augusta is incredible

walking up the 18th listening to the roar

oh...what?

not that Masters?

ooooh....sorry

spring fever is causing me all sorts of issues

[Deleted]

Update: DD has her midterms this week, and they aren't going well. She has been freaking out, turned in some blank exams (or so she says). She was in such a pitiful state today I ended up calling the school to speak to the Director of Studies (Dean?). 

Long story short, since I was already on the phone with the woman from school, I told her that although we have yet to do the "official paperwork", DD is not planning to stay on to do her Masters because it would be too difficult for her. The woman said she understood, but that as far as they are concerned, DD is on track for her Bachelors. Which was great news, although she still has a few months (and more exams) to go. I felt IMMENSE guilt given her state today, but that's another issue.

I also told DH that DD and I refuse to hear even.one.more.word about the Masters, and he finally agreed. So, that's progress. Hopefully the fact that that decision is made, and the school is informed (albeit informally) will take some of the pressure off DD.

ETA DD has a day off midterms tomorrow, and I don't work Wednesdays, so I'm taking her and DS3 out to lunch.

[busymom]

Best wishes to you & DD during midterms! I'm glad your DH appears to be cooperating.

Don't feel guilty about DD. As parents, all we can do is our best.