Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jan 29, 2014 19:00:31 GMT -5
Yes, but in climates where they never get snow- those people DO NOT KNOW HOW to drive in it. I was in Houston during a snow storm years ago. OMG. A while back, I met someone who had just moved here from Minnesota. She was laughing over the fact that we shut schools down with a couple inches of snow and how much snow it took to close schools there. I told her she'd understand in the winter. I will never forget her calling me and yelling- " oh my god, there is ice under the snow- how the hell do you people drive in this with all these hills." It was quite funny. I was just surprised that they were all out driving around, going to school and work that day despite knowing that the snowstorm was coming. I mean, I get that they don't know how to drive in snow, so why were they having school at all? I have a friend who lives in Atlanta. She said the forecast called for an inch of snow south of I-20, and no snow whatsoever in the north. That isn't what happened.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jan 29, 2014 19:00:52 GMT -5
I'm heading to that lovely weather tomorrow. Florida, here I come. Golfing and house hunting. Doesn't get any better than that. Just don't drive through Atlanta.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 19:05:37 GMT -5
This is my world. A lot of my friends (50 colleagues in all) stayed at school last night to take care of 600 stranded high schoolers. Supposedly, they were also stranded since they never really asked for volunteers.
The weather report missed its mark in our area. Snow was supposed to hit South Alabama. Central Alabama was supposed to get a light dusting. I jokingly put a student in my first period class on "snowflake" alert. Nothing. Two hours later, they dismissed all student drivers. Bus kids were supposed to leave about an hour later, but we had no buses. We share buses with an elementary school. By the time we got buses, the roads were impassable.
You have to understand the school mindset. Every single day that students miss must be made up. We had these really odd calendar parameters this year since a Mobile legislator got passed a law that school cannot start for students more than two weeks before Labor Day and must end by Memorial Day. He was trying to extend the tourist season. So there are no snow days built into the school calendars.
This snow storm was supposed to miss it. By the time everyone figured out it wasn't, everyone was on the road trying to get their kids. My son's family had two kids at two different schools. The roads around one child's school were closed, and the school officials were calling her constantly to demand that she pick up her kids. Her husband was stranded at work. She has an infant and a one-year-old and a car that couldn't make it up the hills around her house. Her mom made two attempts to get the child, a few hours apart, and finally broke the law by driving around police barricades. But she did get him. My ex got the other one.
Everyone relied on a faulty weather prediction . . . businesses, schools, and parents. Parents were privy to the same information that the schools had. They saw the same predictions. They chose to concur that it was going to be a light dusting. It wasn't.
Areas like mine might use a snow plow once every five-to-ten years. That's a big expense for something used so rarely. Our best preventative is accurate weather reporting because the kids don't go to school, some parents don't go to work in order to care for their kids, etc. But as a wage earner, you can see why no one wants to be premature in that decision.
As far as driving in ice and snow, I was actually very impressed with Alabamians' ability. Cars kept several car lengths between them and the car in front of them. That was true on both sides of the road . . . picture a staggered effect. That allowed cars that were sliding to work their car out of the slide without worrying about sliding into someone else. But Alabama is definitely not flat. We are the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. So there were plenty of hills that were just simply unpassable.
It took me three hours to make the 15 minute ride home yesterday. Part of that was conscience. I waited until what was probably the last minute to leave school even though I had only one student left. I knew I could get home, but I didn't think it was fair to people with lots of students who couldn't leave.
Most of the trip was easy, but I tackled a hill that I shouldn't have. I was scared to back down it because I was sliding, and I didn't want to hit a wrecked car. I finally did, though, and then got caught on a major artery that was gridlocked.
Two-and-a-half inches of snow with ice is a lot in Alabama. But it only happens every ten years or so. Why would you put people down for being unfamiliar with something that just isn't part of their everyday universe?
If the weather report had been accurate, everyone would have stayed home like we always do.
It wasn't.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jan 29, 2014 19:16:01 GMT -5
I don't know about your area, but according to the NPR, the weather service did include the Atlanta area in its storm prediction: www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/29/268376237/weather-experts-its-wrong-to-call-atlanta-storm-unexpectedTo those who say that they were told the storm would stay south of Atlanta, and that there were no storm watches or warnings before Tuesday, Shepherd has a simple response: "Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong!" He cites a bulletin from the National Weather Service just before 5 a.m. on Monday — more than 24 hours before the storm turned Atlanta's streets and highways into virtual parking lots. The report includes counties that make up the Atlanta metro area: "CLAYTON-COBB-DEKALB-GWINNETT-HENRY-NORTH FULTON-ROCKDALE-SOUTH FULTON- INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...ATLANTA...CONYERS...DECATUR...EAST POINT...LAWRENCEVILLE...MARIETTA
"455 AM EST MON JAN 27 2014
"...WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH
WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON..."
~~snip~~
Perhaps the problem is the terminology, Shepherd says. The public, and its leaders, might not realize the degree of certainty that underpins words such as "watch" and "warning." A watch, he notes, means 2-4 inches of snow, or noteworthy freezing rain or sleet, might fall in a day or less. Shepherd asks if the public might respond better to a weather index or numbers that signify a storm's potential impact. And he said meteorologists should also avoid confusing their audience with an overabundance of possible weather models.
Also from weather.com: But a timeline of winter storm watches, warnings, and advisories paints a different picture, one that shows that the governor and other government officials had nearly a day to prepare for significant impacts from Winter Storm Leon.
"The entire metro Atlanta area was under a winter storm watch early Monday morning, giving plenty of time to prepare for a worst-case scenario," said weather.com meteorologist Chris Dolce. "By late Monday afternoon and evening, confidence increased that significant snow would impact Atlanta and winter storm warnings (south metro) and winter weather advisories (north metro) were issued."
Despite Monday's warnings and advisories, the governor said that as of Tuesday at 10 a.m. "it was still in most of the forecasts anticipated that the city of Atlanta would only have a mild dusting or a very small accumulation, if any. And that the majority of the effects of the storm would be south of here. Preparations were made for those predictions."
Yet, at 3:38 a.m. Tuesday, more than 6 hours before governor Deal's timeline, the National Weather Service issued a winter storm warning, indicating an even higher level of potential impact from Winter Storm Leon .
"Confidence increased more by early Tuesday morning that significant snow would affect Atlanta and winter storm warnings were posted for the entire metro area at 3:38 a.m," Dolce said.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 29, 2014 19:17:40 GMT -5
... You have to understand the school mindset. Every single day that students miss must be made up. We had these really odd calendar parameters this year since a Mobile legislator got passed a law that school cannot start for students more than two weeks before Labor Day and must end by Memorial Day. He was trying to extend the tourist season. So there are no snow days built into the school calendars. Ok so I messed up on the quotes. This I don't understand. DD has had 6 snow/cold days so far this school year. We are now into most of the first week of June for school due to the extra days off. It stinks but it is what it is. Yes it puts everyone's schedules in turmoil covering for childcare but you manage. Better than risking anyone's safety.
What will happen if you don't get enough school days in before Memorial Day? Leaving no cushion is nuts! A water main could break, school electricity could go out, etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 19:17:40 GMT -5
If you were talking to me, Rocky, I am not in Atlanta. I am in Alabama although my joke is always that if you want to know our weather, look at Atlanta's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 19:19:56 GMT -5
I get it. I live in the south and we just don't get snow that often, so when it happens it's a big deal even if it's only a couple of inches. Whenever snow is predicted, they say they're prepared and they're salting the streets. Well, at best, they salt the interstate and major streets. You still have to get TO the major streets and interstate and they still aren't exactly clear.
Plus, people here don't drive all that well when the streets are dry. Speeding is the name of the game, sunshine, rain, sleet or snow. Driving in snow or on ice seriously scares me because not only do I not know what I'm doing, but other people still drive like idiots. I don't let my tires get bald before I replace them (I did once and sliding in the rain taught me to never do it again), but I have performance tires, not snow tires.
It's pretty much a given that if we get anything more than a dusting of snow, schools and businesses will close and churches will cancel services and activities. The whole area shuts down. If we just get a prediction for snow, everybody and their Momma runs to the gas station to fill their cars and/or have gas for generators and the grocery stores end up with empty shelves. That's how we deal with snow, prepare to stay put from the time it starts, until it melts.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jan 29, 2014 19:22:54 GMT -5
If you were talking to me, Rocky, I am not in Atlanta. I am in Alabama although my joke is always that if you want to know our weather, look at Atlanta's. Yeah, that's why I mentioned that I don't know the specifics of your situation and was speaking of Atlanta's. The mayor of ATL is blaming the meteorologists and calling the storm 'unexpected', which is apparently quite a bit of poo-poo.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jan 29, 2014 19:29:25 GMT -5
That's how we deal with snow, prepare to stay put from the time it starts, until it melts.
That's actually not a bad way to handle snow. It'd be my preferred method if we could get away with it here!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 19:31:28 GMT -5
I tried to answer your post, TheCaptain, but it didn't work out.
Most years we don't need "inclement weather" days. When we do, there are Saturdays, a few days before Memorial Day (Graduation is on Thursday and Memorial Day is on Monday), and so on. Sometimes the Governor says the days don't have to be made up for students, but they almost always have to be made up by teachers since we are paid per day. But we can go to a conference, do X number of conferences, etc. to take care of that.
Our water mains and electricity usually don't go out without an underlying cause like a snow storm.
These days E-Learning Days are the rage so the kids may be asked to do something electronically (view a video clip and write something) to make the day up. That sounds simple enough until you recognize that the typical high school student will have to view/write seven of those clips.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jan 29, 2014 19:34:36 GMT -5
I tried to answer your post, TheCaptain, but it didn't work out. Most years we don't need "inclement weather" days. When we do, there are Saturdays, a few days before Memorial Day (Graduation is on Thursday and Memorial Day is on Monday), and so on. Sometimes the Governor says the days don't have to be made up for students, but they almost always have to be made up by teachers since we are paid per day. But we can go to a conference, do X number of conferences, etc. to take care of that. Our water mains and electricity usually don't go out without an underlying cause like a snow storm. These days E-Learning Days are the rage so the kids may be asked to do something electronically (view a video clip and write something) to make the day up. That sounds simple enough until you recognize that the typical high school student will have to view/write seven of those clips. Sounds like you guys could have used one of those alternate options this week!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 19:38:59 GMT -5
I tried to answer your post, TheCaptain, but it didn't work out. Most years we don't need "inclement weather" days. When we do, there are Saturdays, a few days before Memorial Day (Graduation is on Thursday and Memorial Day is on Monday), and so on. Sometimes the Governor says the days don't have to be made up for students, but they almost always have to be made up by teachers since we are paid per day. But we can go to a conference, do X number of conferences, etc. to take care of that. Our water mains and electricity usually don't go out without an underlying cause like a snow storm. These days E-Learning Days are the rage so the kids may be asked to do something electronically (view a video clip and write something) to make the day up. That sounds simple enough until you recognize that the typical high school student will have to view/write seven of those clips. Sounds like you guys could have used one of those alternate options this week! Snow Days are always made up after the fact. The preferred option is face-to-face teaching.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jan 29, 2014 19:43:02 GMT -5
I was actually just talking to someone about this regarding Georgia and the fact that they don't even have snow plows to help. In Southern California people can barely drive when it rains and if it actually snowed here the roads would probably look like something out of a zombie apocalypse flick. Even with the over abundance of trucks and SUV's here a lot of people don't have cars that could handle snow without chains and most don't have chains.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jan 29, 2014 19:43:13 GMT -5
LOL, well the kids who had to stay overnight got a lot of extra face-to-face teaching time! Think they'll get off earlier in the summer?
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jan 29, 2014 19:44:34 GMT -5
I was actually just talking to someone about this regarding Georgia and the fact that they don't even have snow plows to help. In Southern California people can barely drive when it rains and if it actually snowed here the roads would probably look like something out of a zombie apocalypse flick. Even with the over abundance of trucks and SUV's here a lot of people don't have cars that could handle snow without chains and most don't have chains. SoCal shuts down when it *rains*, let alone snow!
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grits
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Post by grits on Jan 29, 2014 19:44:55 GMT -5
Yes, but in climates where they never get snow- those people DO NOT KNOW HOW to drive in it. I was in Houston during a snow storm years ago. OMG. A while back, I met someone who had just moved here from Minnesota. She was laughing over the fact that we shut schools down with a couple inches of snow and how much snow it took to close schools there. I told her she'd understand in the winter. I will never forget her calling me and yelling- " oh my god, there is ice under the snow- how the hell do you people drive in this with all these hills." It was quite funny. The biggest problem we had was ice. The ice was over half an inch thick on the sides of buildings. It was worse on the ground. Some of those cities have very high bridges. You should see the bridges in Houston. I don't like some of them in dry weather. I certainly don't like them in ice. The Houston ship channel bridge is built almost like this /\. The three main bridges here were closed by the state due to ice. Also, the winds were really strong. Two of them are very high, and it would be a major hazard to have people without chains and snow tires on them. A lot of people here can't drive on ice. It would be like some of you getting the 10 inches of rain in 3 hours that we got last year. It doesn't drain off fast enough, and streets flood like mad. There is another reason for closings due to snow. The absenteeism will be high. The state reimburses school systems according to the number of students who have been there X hours by Y time of the day. If you have low student attendance, it won't pay you to heat the building, and pay the staff.
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flopsy
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Post by flopsy on Jan 29, 2014 19:58:27 GMT -5
When sleet/freezing rain hit the DFW area not too long ago a majority of people did not go outside until it cleared up. There were some accidents and slow traffic but nothing like this. You would think they had no idea it was coming...
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ktunes
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Post by ktunes on Jan 30, 2014 3:07:23 GMT -5
atl has snow plows...they have salt/sand stations set up around the cities interstate system...they knew a storm was coming...they made a bad call...
the original forecast called for the heavy stuff south of the metro area...they said atl could get up to an inch of snow...it was not supposed to hit the area until later in the afternoon...so the powers to be decided not to shut down the city...
at 3:30 am tuesday morning they issued a winter storm warning for the atl area...they said it would arrive earlier than originally predicted...so the powers to be made a bad call in not calling off school...that would have alleviated some of the problem as some parents would have had to take the day off to take care of their kids being out of school...
also realize traffic in atl sucks even when it's sunny and 75 degrees outside...that's why i go into work so early and leave earlier in the day so i can work around normal rush hour times...
so then the snow starts falling and the roads get wet...because the temps dropped the roads quickly turned to ice...i don't care how much experience you have driving in winter weather (i am from just south of buffalo, ny) driving on ice is much different than driving thru snow...
compound that with every business in the city saying uh-oh, let's close and send everybody home...all at once...so when you all commuters, schools etc. onto an interstate system that can experience gridlock on a normal commute, what do you think will happen?... then throw in the fact that they are driving on sheets of ice, not snow...
i am so thankful i had a doctors appt. at 1 pm about a mile from the house...even that early traffic was getting heavy...as i headed north on i-85 i noticed southbound was bumper to bumper and the salt/sand trucks were stuck in it...hard to prep the roads when the trucks are stuck in the gridlock with all the other cars...
so it really boils down to the officials not wanting to shut down the city and all the lost dollars that translates to...greed pure and simple...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 30, 2014 6:51:44 GMT -5
It's bad here but not that bad. The ONLY good thing about here is that we have equipment to deal with it. But it's so cold the salt does no good so roads are still slick.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 30, 2014 9:27:37 GMT -5
You have to understand the school mindset. Every single day that students miss must be made up. We had these really odd calendar parameters this year since a Mobile legislator got passed a law that school cannot start for students more than two weeks before Labor Day and must end by Memorial Day. He was trying to extend the tourist season. So there are no snow days built into the school calendars. In WI, public school HAS to start after labor day, because the tourism lobby apparently needs the HS kids to work in the Dells, and that's more important than an education. There was talk of getting rid of the minimum number of days that you have to be in school when they passed Act 10. It was to give schools more flexibility in order to try and save money. I guess, it didn't go through, though. Which is too bad, because I actually thought that made some sense. We've had 3 "snow" days this year for when it was -50 with the windchill. Some districts have had 4. If schools have off any more time, they will either have to add days to the end of the school year (which is almost mid June as it is) or play with the number of minutes in a day. Because, you know, adding 4.5 minutes onto every school day really fills in for the education that they missed on the snow days. Now at our school (private), every time they say the school is open during questionable weather, the principal ALWAYS ends with "Parents are ultimately the ones that make decisions about school attendance. If you feel it's in your child's best interest to stay at home, then keep your kids at home." While I do understand having kids at home really can put a wrinkle in things for dual income homes, it's still the parents that have the final say, not the schools. And blame should not be put squarely at the feet of the school admins.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jan 30, 2014 9:39:42 GMT -5
We start school after Labor Day here, & the district still adds "snow days", although this winter has definitely been the worst since I had kids that were old enough to attend school.
We are fortunate to live in a district where the superintendent encourages parents to keep their children home if you think it's too cold or snowy to send the kids to school. We've already had 5 days cancelled due to cold (previously, I can't recall more than one or two days the schools were closed in one school year), so the school calendar is being adjusted to add 2 days of school in February, when previously the kids were supposed to have those days off.
Atlanta did do an epic fail, but the weatherman is wrong so frequently here that I don't totally fault the authorities there. They should've staggered the traffic going home, however, rather than closing schools & offices all at the same time.
** Speaking of weatherman failure, we've already got 4 inches of new snow on the ground here this morning. We were supposed to get 4-6 inches the entire day!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 30, 2014 10:27:46 GMT -5
The biggest problem is really not the lack of driving experience in these conditions, it's that the roads in this part of the country are not prepped for this kind of storm. There's no salt, no sand, no nothing. It's just a big pure sheet of ice. Even before roads in other areas have the salt trucks out, the roads have been prepped in early winter to handle this kind of thing.
It's a bit like comparing ice skating on a smooth ice rink, to ice skating on the concrete floor prior to them icing it. It doesnt' matter how good of an ice skater you are if the surface you're on isn't ready for you. Throw in some people who haven't ice skated in years, and it's bad. But it wouldn't be all that much better even if they were ice skating professionals.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jan 30, 2014 10:30:03 GMT -5
Atlanta messed up and did not follow updated snow predictions.
Down here is South Geoergia, we prepared, closed schools, get everything ready. The snow was almost all north of here, only got a slight dusting and some minor icing. Schools were closed yesterday and today. It is a bit overreacting, but when I hear about what happened in Atlanta, I won't complain.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jan 30, 2014 13:13:33 GMT -5
Sorry if it seems insensative to comment on the state of things in the south. I can understand the lack of snow poughs and salt ont he roads. But you can't honestly tell me with a straight face that it should never have gotten this bad. It appears the standard operating proceedure for snowstorms in the south is to shut everything down and wait it out. Obviously that did not happen. Someone screwed up somewhere, and don't tell me otherwise.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jan 30, 2014 13:56:28 GMT -5
Sorry if it seems insensative to comment on the state of things in the south. I can understand the lack of snow poughs and salt ont he roads. But you can't honestly tell me with a straight face that it should never have gotten this bad. It appears the standard operating proceedure for snowstorms in the south is to shut everything down and wait it out. Obviously that did not happen. Someone screwed up somewhere, and don't tell me otherwise. Yeah, someone screwed up. But that doesn't mean you should roll your eyes or shake your head over 2.5" of snow shutting down a city and stranding thousands. Go live in a southern city or a pseudo southern city (one that gets snow like once a winter). Take a look at how prepared they are compared to where you are. My best friend lives in Birmingham. She was going to OKC and KC to spend Christmas with family and she and her husband couldn't even buy a jacket for their 5 month old little girl in Birmingham. If you can't buy a jacket, do you really think they can handle snow?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 14:17:40 GMT -5
The southerners should have just stayed in and listened to country music or something. What a mess
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ktunes
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Post by ktunes on Jan 30, 2014 15:05:58 GMT -5
we did...those of us that made it home anyway...and had a few to boot...
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jan 30, 2014 15:52:29 GMT -5
SoCal shuts down when it *rains*, let alone snow! We were down at Disneyland for spring break two years ago. SoCal was having quite a rain storm. Biggest storm in a century or something like that. For us (oregonians) it was "rain on sunday". Best time ever at Disneyland. There was hardly anyone there, and those that were from Oregon (could tell by the beaver and duck gear). We finished a ride on Pirates and the guy asked us if we wanted to go again because there was no one in line. It was AWESOME.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Jan 30, 2014 16:10:56 GMT -5
SoCal shuts down when it *rains*, let alone snow! We were down at Disneyland for spring break two years ago. SoCal was having quite a rain storm. Biggest storm in a century or something like that. For us (oregonians) it was "rain on sunday". Best time ever at Disneyland. There was hardly anyone there, and those that were from Oregon (could tell by the beaver and duck gear). We finished a ride on Pirates and the guy asked us if we wanted to go again because there was no one in line. It was AWESOME. We did that too! The rain scares 'em all away.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 30, 2014 16:27:59 GMT -5
Sorry if it seems insensative to comment on the state of things in the south. I can understand the lack of snow poughs and salt ont he roads. But you can't honestly tell me with a straight face that it should never have gotten this bad. It appears the standard operating proceedure for snowstorms in the south is to shut everything down and wait it out. Obviously that did not happen. Someone screwed up somewhere, and don't tell me otherwise. Don't lump the rest of the south in with the morons in ATL and Birmingham I'm in South Alabama, we have 4 hurricane days built into the school calendar and they were all before Christmas. Kids were/are out of school 3 days here. On Monday, it was in the 60s. Schools made the decision to close by midday and the local governments took a while but before end of day. IDK what was wrong with the 2 cities that had issues. The last ice event in our area, and it was mostly ice with MAYBE a flurry or 5 here, was 32 years ago according to a local news channel. WHY would we have equipment to deal with something that happens every few decades?
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