Suggestions, please. Friend who is always late!

[seriousthistime]

Two of my friends and I have a standing get-together once a week, same place, same weeknight, same time each week. The default expectation is that we will be there, and if you can't be there or will be late, then it's understood you'll notify the other two by email or text.  

One friend is usually late, to this and everything else (even when she says she'll be there at the time that's set).  At best, she'll notify us at the last minute that she'll be late.  Sometimes she doesn't notify us at all and will just walk in half an hour late, or more. This is a big issue when the third friend has notified us that she has a conflict and will be late or won't attend that night, leaving me sitting in the wine bar waiting for Always-Late to show up. 

If it were just me and Always-Late, I wouldn't bother to do the standing get-together anymore. But if I ditch, then my other friend is left with this mess, and I know she's gotten an earful from time to time, listening to Always-Late complain about me and ask her why she sides with me instead of with Always-Late.  

For reasons that would take too long to explain, in the past year I've scaled way back socializing with Always-Late.  I am trying to limit our get-togethers to only that one time per week, for a reasonable amount of time -- not all evening.  This is not to her liking, and she doesn't like that my other friend sides with me. 

After this week's get-together, I'm very frustrated.  I know that chronically late people can be that way out of a desire to control others as opposed to just being disorganized or scatter-brained (the latter two describing her to a T) or flat-out intending to be disrespectful.  But I'm seeing more and more indications of overt control.  One time not so long ago, we called and called to find out where she was, and when she finally answered the phone she said she was on her way when she plainly was not.  She walked in when I was paying my bill, and I didn't stay.  The other friend did stay long enough for Always-Late to get her dose of socializing in. This week she arrived late (surprise) and to prevent us from depriving her of her socializing time, she ordered another glass of wine when we'd said we were done and were giving her all indications of wanting to get moving.  And then she sipped it slowly to keep us there longer than we wanted to.  Every time I looked over, it seemed she had just as much wine in her glass as she originally did.  I would have left her there with the wine, but my other friend is not as [fill in the blank] as I am.

Always-Late has suggested she could be on time if we would start a little later.  But it's near work for two of us, and going home first or staying at work as late as Always-Late would want us to to make it convenient isn't realistic.  Plus, if we start later, it's guaranteed to be an all-evening thing.  And Always-Late leaves work (whether or not her work is done) at least an hour before we do.

What works with people like this? The complicating factor is my other friend.  I don't want to leave her with this mess, but I don't like being manipulated by Always-Late.  I think the size of the group makes it difficult.  It's 2 vs. 1.  If it were 1 vs. 1 or a group of six or eight people who show up and leave when they want to, if they do show up at all, it'd be better.  

Just curious, how have other people dealt with this?






 

[swamp]

I'd stop meeting up with her. 

[seriousthistime]

But what about the third friend?  Tell her to grown a backbone or suffer on her own?

[Blonde Granny]

I'm a bitch......I think I would wait 15 minutes, and if she didn't show I would leave.  If necessary, do it 3 times total, and if she doesn't get the message by then, I'd call it quits.

[swamp]

Jan 15, 2014 21:23:32 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

But what about the third friend?  Tell her to grown a backbone or suffer on her own?

Meet up with her somewhere and sometime else. 

[8 Bit WWBG]

The only way to cure the tardy is to make the costs of them being tardy less desirable than the effort to change.  She is free to be late, but you and the other one are free not to be there when she decides to show up.

[seriousthistime]

I've tried it, Blonde Granny.  But she always manages to walk in just as I'm trying to get the check.  

Maybe the trick is not to get seated at the table but wait near the hostess until she's there, so I can make an easy exit.  I guess I figure if I get seated and order the bottle of wine, we've at least pared down the length of the night out.

[midjd]

Does late friend have other redeeming qualities?

[Jaguar]

Your being manipulated by the chronically late one, time to draw the line.

[Sunnyday]

Jan 15, 2014 21:24:56 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 15, 2014 21:23:32 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

But what about the third friend?  Tell her to grown a backbone or suffer on her own?

Meet up with her somewhere and sometime else. 

yes, I would squeeze out Ms. Always Late, and meet up third friend separately.

If third friend wants to continue meeting with Ms. Latey pants, that is her choice and her headache. Obviously, I don't the history of the friendships, but it seems like your third friend is also using you in a way to deal with Ms. Tardy.

[seriousthistime]

Mid, the redeeming quality is history.  We knew each other (not friends, really) when our kids were little.  I went through a divorce.  I got through it.  She went through something similar, and I was there.  So we sort of became friends that way.  The third woman in the group was my friend  first, but those two have professional connections. We have many mutual friends, which means if I burn bridges I have to be tactful.  

[swamp]

Jan 15, 2014 21:33:18 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Mid, the redeeming quality is history.  We knew each other (not friends, really) when our kids were little.  I went through a divorce.  I got through it.  She went through something similar, and I was there.  So we sort of became friends that way.  The third woman in the group was my friend was my first friend, but those two have professional connections. We have many mutual friends, which means if I burn bridges I have to be tactful.  

She's probably as sick of these meet ups as you are.  Just say, "hey, this isn't working with my schedule now. How about we take a break?"  

[seriousthistime]

Jan 15, 2014 21:31:06 GMT -5 Sunnyday said:

Jan 15, 2014 21:24:56 GMT -5 swamp said:

Meet up with her somewhere and sometime else. 

yes, I would squeeze out Ms. Always Late, and meet up third friend separately.

If third friend wants to continue meeting with Ms. Latey pants, that is her choice and her headache. Obviously, I don't the history of the friendships, but it seems like your third friend is also using you in a way to deal with Ms. Tardy.

Rainyday, that's pretty insightful.  I know they have professional differences but if I were to back out, it could be she would feel relieved. And then we could order the wine WE like, instead of pleasing a group of 3.

[NoNamePerson]

I agree with you about the control factor. She is telling you that she is so important that you will wait for her to arrive.

I am the bitch also and 15 minutes is my limit and that is hard for me to do since I am an on time person. Of course with cell phones today she can call 5 minutes before set time and say she is running late so you are going to have to decide what to do about that.

If she is late and you are ready to leave then just say sorry but I have to go. Geeze, I sound very intolerant don't I? I just don't want anyone dictating my time for me. You other friend will have to decide on her own how to handle this.  


ETA: The post about professional connections and all that was being posted while I typed. Handle it tactfully but my posts still stands.

[seriousthistime]

Another option would be to enlist the people she gets together with on another night of the week (because she has multiple groups she gets together with), and we do it all in one fell swoop.  Then people can come and go as they choose.

The third friend is at least as sick of these meet-ups as I am.  She is subject to drop-by visits at random times.  I feel no obligation to answer the door for anyone except Girl Scouts selling cookies.

[justme]

Didn't read through all the messages.

I'm sure you and not-late friend have talked about this, no? At least I'd be talking about it while you're waiting! If so, I would kind of make a pact between you too to be "late" yourself. That's how I've dealt with friends that just suck at time management. Granted, I haven't had the ones that just don't show up - they're just always late. I've been with them, and I've I'm not calling out how much time we have left they get behind - even when we're not meeting someone.

For the few that do this, they mean enough to me to work it out. One friend growing up was always at least an hour behind. So we'd come up with a time, and I'd mosey on over to her house about 20-30 mins after we said (she didn't drive so this made it easy) and then hang out for a bit while she finished getting ready. And we both knew to schedule in enough lead time if it was something like a play to be hit. Another friend isn't usually that bad, but after a while I've gotten used to it. Like she told me last time "oh we're leaving at noon" but I live two hours away...yeah we didn't leave to her place til 2, but I didn't show til almost 1 because I knew she was behind (I text when I got up and waited for a reply before I left).


Now, I'm not entirely sure I'd do this if they just no showed on me. That's just shitty. Some suck at time management. I suck at it sometime too, though usually I'm under 15 mins late and am damn good about texting. My problem is underestimating driving time.

[JustLurkin]

Jan 15, 2014 21:28:49 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I've tried it, Blonde Granny.  But she always manages to walk in just as I'm trying to get the check.  

Maybe the trick is not to get seated at the table but wait near the hostess until she's there, so I can make an easy exit.  I guess I figure if I get seated and order the bottle of wine, we've at least pared down the length of the night out.

Just get a glass, not a bottle. When the glass is gone, so are you.

You've been ordering a bottle? What happens when you try to leave, do you get to take the bottle? (I think it's ok in some states and not ok in others.)

[seriousthistime]

Half price bottles on the night we go!

What happens on the night we go?  They can seal up a bottle in a heat-sealed bag and someone (usually Always-Late) takes it home.

[JustLurkin]

Jan 15, 2014 21:48:23 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Half price bottles on the night we go!
 
What happens on the night we go?  They can seal up a bottle in a heat-sealed bag and someone (usually Always-Late) takes it home.

LOL, gotcha!

I have a friend who's always late--but we look forward to spending time together and are usually there until the restaurant closes.  I just order a small appetizer and a drink, play around on my ipod, settle the check with a large tip before she arrives--since we're going to be table hogs (she has a longer commute as well, one of those things where it wouldn't be worth it to go home and return).  She never noticed it until the last time we went out and she wanted to know why I didn't have any alcohol.  LOL!!  Um, because I had 3 before you got here. 

But that's different--we like each other and have fun.

Sounds like your relationship is just fizzling out.

Oh, yea, if you're coming to my house, better call--I never answer the door if I'm not expecting anyone.

[seriousthistime]

Clarification:

she ordered another glass bottle of wine when we'd said we were done and were giving her all indications of wanting to get moving. And then she poured herself a glass and she sipped it the glass slowly to keep us there longer than we wanted to.

[justme]

Bring cash to these nights. "Sorry, I have to go. This should cover me." And throw a bit more than you should and leave.

But if the non-late friend is on your side, just, uh, cancel it for a while and start hanging out you two.

[resolution]

It sounds like you don't really like her, so you should just cancel the standing date.

If you did like her, i would say to change the time and give her a different time than the real time. I have a friend that I like who is chronically 15 minutes late, and we just always give her a start time that is 15 - 30 minutes earlier than everyone else. She knows that we are doing it, but it does help keep her on track.

[Apple]

I wouldn't "give indication" I wanted to leave.  Just a "I need to get going, it was nice to visit", pay for my portion of the FIRST bottle (if she has ordered a second), and run off.

If non-late friend couldn't be there, I'd show up, wait five minutes, then leave.  If she showed up, I'd just say "Oh, you weren't here, so I didn't think you were coming.  I just committed my night elsewhere, so I need to take off."  She doesn't need to know that "elsewhere" is your couch with a good book/show/movie and a glass of wine.

If non-late friend is there, order your bottle, don't wait until late friend is there.  I wouldn't bother to call her, just assume she won't show, and do what you want.  If you meet, wait five minutes, and decide you'd rather have a drink somewhere else, go there. 

She can't take control if you don't give it to her.

[seriousthistime]

No, resolution, I do like her, but from somewhat more distance than I have now.  Right now I'm overcome by how needy she is.  I am not willing to devote precious little free time I have to her, or to be manipulated by her. 

Whatever time we gave her, she would be late.  I could give you examples.  She is very self-absorbed. Whatever time we gave, she would add "-ish" to it.  It's a suggestion, not a goal.

[MarleyKeezy78]

F that, find a fun place! If she's late make sure they have a dance floor and music! Talk to other people and dance by yourself or other friend  Or leave and go to that fun place, teach her a lesson  I have had that happen plenty and make the best of it, I meet Jack Nickolaus and others that way, so   On your friend. Do it!!!!

[whoisjohngalt]

Jan 15, 2014 21:56:38 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Clarification:

she ordered another glass bottle of wine when we'd said we were done and were giving her all indications of wanting to get moving. And then she poured herself a glass and she sipped it the glass slowly to keep us there longer than we wanted to.

Unless that glass of wine had a gun in it that was pointed to your head, SHE didn't keep you there, YOU decided to stay.  She is also not a child that can't be left without supervision. 

I'll admit for full disclosure that I don't have that many friends, but it always confuses me as to why people remain friends with people who cause them grief.

In any case, I would behave as she is not part of the meetups anymore.  I would coordinate with the other friend and come and stay as long or as little as you both want.

I don't think it's rude or burning bridges to say to someone "oh we've been here for an hour and ready to head home, have a great night, we'll see you later". 

I certainly wouldn't build my time around someone who has no consideration for me.  Unless I absolutely had to.  do you have to?

[MarleyKeezy78]

I agree. I have one friend and we hang out a few times a year (we have know each other since we were four)(would hang out more but we don't live very close) and she is one I can count on. I hang out with family for the most part because I have a hard time dealing with other peoples bull shit and don't keep friends well for that reason. Don't let someone manipulate you like that, they are just being an ass! Keep hanging out with the one friend that makes it on time and start meeting at another place. If your other friend cares she will make the effort to be there.

[greenstone]

Apple said it pretty well.  I think you need to communicate what you want more forcefully.  If she shows up and you're on your last glass, say 'it's great you made it, we've been here since xx:00, this is my last glass" and stick to it.  If she orders a bottle, make sure to ask for your check at the same time.  She can start her own tab or get the hint.

I know it's hard to leave if she is pressuring you to stay because even if she is the one being selfish and rude, it feels ungracious to leave just after she arrives.  But remind yourself that she will keep manipulating you until you set the boundaries. 

It also seems you are manipulating yourself by feeling responsible for your third friend and acting as a buffer for her.  She is a grown adult, she can either leave with you or deal with Always Late herself.  It may take her longer to reach her breaking point but if it is a problem for her, she will get there eventually.

[Tiny]

::sigh:: this isn't really that hard to handle.   If either you or OnTime Friend can't make the meetup - who ever is canceling texts AlwaysLate, and other friend that the evenings festivities have been canceled.

So, if OnTime can't make it - she texts you and AlwaysLate. If for some reason you are already at the bar - you just get up and leave.  It's now up to AlwaysLate to monitor for texts and not show up at the bar.

Then you and OnTime just need to decide how you will handle AlwaysLate showing up 30minutes late... either you get to the bar and grab seats and order drinks or go to your table and get the appetizer order in.   

Since you guys are texting - AlwaysLate could text you when she's on her way and what she wants to eat... and you guys put in the order. Food and AlwaysLate arrive at approximately the same time.

::sigh:: after 30 some years of dealing with my on SIL (and now her children's) inability to get anywhere at the required time I just stopped caring and just work around their lateness while I have as much fun as I can without them.  I NEVER hold up anything because they aren't there.    We once held up Thanksgiving dinner for 2 hours waiting for them... and it was just disasterous.   Never again.   If they 'miss the train' oh, well.     I've got a stock reply when one or more of them have missed something - I'm so sorry, we started without you.  End of discussion.

Here's a recent example of the way my SILs entire family are unable to get anywhere on time. Her granddaughters Christening. A big Church affair during a busy Sunday Mass.   No Godmother.  Mass starts.   The time came for the godparents/parents/baby to become part of the ceremony and there's a big bit of hoopla as a Stand In Godmother is pushed forward. A few minutes later the official godmother rushes into Church looks around wildly and swaps places with the stand in. Mind you - there's like 200 people in Church for this Mass so the swap happens in front of a church full of strangers. The godmother was a good 30 minutes late for the ceremony - nearly 50 minutes when you figure in the 20 minutes before Mass for the "this is how this going to work" explanations...     Of course, my SILs family thinks this is hilarious because now the GD has 2 godmothers - one real one and one 'stand in'.   It is cute in retrospect.   But I have no idea how none of them appeared to be embarrassed or ashamed by being late to something that ought to be important.

     

 

[milee]

Jan 15, 2014 22:46:17 GMT -5 MarleyKeezy78 said:

F that, find a fun place! If she's late make sure they have a dance floor and music! Talk to other people and dance by yourself or other friend  Or leave and go to that fun place, teach her a lesson  I have had that happen plenty and make the best of it, I meet Jack Nickolaus and others that way, so   On your friend. Do it!!!!

Might be an issue of living in a smaller town, but most of the places I like to meet friends are a little quieter since we're planning to talk.  The kind of places where I'd feel more comfy striking up a conversation with strangers are the noisier, more popular spots where I wouldn't go to meet friends to talk and have wine.  But I agree with the idea that you shouldn't let this late friend ruin your night.  

We do have one friend that's so consistently late, we deliberately tell her a time that's half hour earlier than we plan to meet.