Yarnell residents suing AZ, city, FD for property losses!

[EVT1]

And these disgusting creeps have the gall to invoke the dead fire fighters.

     One of the latest claims, filed last week by Nina and Chuck Overmyer, is on behalf of all residents and property owners in Yarnell and surrounding communities affected in Yavapai County, about 100 miles north of Phoenix. The Overmyers are personally claiming $865,000 in property losses, lost income and other fire-related expenses.

     “With reasonable professional planning and coordination of available firefighting resources, the firefighting managers could have prevented Yarnell’s obliteration without endangering the surrounding communities and the Granite Mountain Hotshots and other firefighters battling the Yarnell Hill fire,” the claim says

     At least 50 other property-owner claims have been filed totaling more than $184 million in damages, reported The Daily Courier in Prescott. That’s in addition to fourteen families who’ve filed wrongful-death claims seeking more than $300 million.

The plaintiffs have named the city of Prescott, the state of Arizona, Yavapai County and the Yarnell Fire District among the defendants.


WTF?  Nobody have insurance?  The taxpayers are responsible for a freaking unpredictable wildfire now? 

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/24/22034773-lawsuits-mount-against-arizona-officials-after-fatal-yarnell-hill-wildfire?lite

[mmhmm]

Ick!  That sounds awful!  I'd have to do some reading about this before I could comment, though.  I recall the fires, but don't recall anything about accusations of poor performance on the part of the fire districts.  It'll take some research.

[EVT1]

Just peeked at wiki:

     After the fire, the Federal Emergency Management Agency ruled that the fire does not qualify for disaster aid to homeowners because most of the homes that were burned had insurance. Under federal law, federal disaster relief is not available if there is insurance, and FEMA said "damage to uninsured private residences from this event was not beyond the response and recovery capabilities of the state (and) local governments and voluntary agencies." Brewer appealed to Obama to overturn the decision.[35]

     Following a three-month investigation, the state's Forestry Division released a report on September 28, 2013 which found no evidence of negligence or recklessness in the deaths of the 19 firefighters, and revealed that an airtanker carrying flame retardant was directly overhead as the firefighters died. The investigation did find some problems with radio communications due to heavy radio traffic and the fact that some radios were not programmed with appropriate tone guards.[36][37]

     However, on December 4, 2013, the Industrial Commission of Arizona, which oversees workplace safety, blamed the state's Forestry Division for the deaths of the 19 firefighters, based on an investigation by the state's Division of Occupational Safety and Health. The Commission said that state fire officials knowingly put protection of property ahead of safety and should have pulled crews out earlier. The commission levied a $559,000 fine.[38][39]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarnell_Hill_Fire


Emphasis mine- just what I expected.  The people suing must not have had any or adequate insurance.  So much for personal responsibility.  Typical red state.   The cryptkeeper begging Obama for a handout.

[thyme4change]

They must think that the fire crew was negligent in some way.  Is this the only lawsuit, or are the other "claims" also suing?

[EVT1]

"At least 50 other property-owner claims have been filed totaling more than $184 million"

So that's either 50 people that had inadequate insurance, or possibly some insurance companies are trying to sue their way out of paying losses by blaming the fire department, the state, the city, or anyone else they can find to hold responsible.

Tough argument to make and I doubt it goes far.  This is why people hate lawyers.

[AGB]

Dec 25, 2013 21:11:25 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Emphasis mine- just what I expected.  The people suing must not have had any or adequate insurance.  So much for personal responsibility.  Typical red state.   The cryptkeeper begging Obama for a handout.

Typical red state, how do you figure? Who is the cryptkeeper?

[EVT1]

As in hypocritical- just like TX asking for help from FEMA when that (privately owned) plant blew up and took part of the town with it.

Brewer is the cryptkeeper.

[AGB]

Dec 27, 2013 22:21:00 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

As in hypocritical- just like TX asking for help from FEMA when that (privately owned) plant blew up and took part of the town with it.

Brewer is the cryptkeeper.

Two incidents from two states are enough to define the "typical red state", got it. I just want to make sure I understand the bar you've set here.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on the cryptkeeper comment, but thanks for confirming it was indeed intended as an ad hominem attack on Arizona's governor. What warrants your comparison of this woman to an animated corpse?

[EVT1]

That's the bar- and I was joking.  Close to half of the state has non-hypocrites in it

Because she looks like one?  She is the one that scowled and pointed that bony finger at the president.  And eff her anyway- she's a drunk driver that never paid her debt to society but came out as tough on DUI- the top Hypocrite in the state.

[AGB]

Dec 28, 2013 13:37:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

That's the bar- and I was joking.  Close to half of the state has non-hypocrites in it

Because she looks like one?  She is the one that scowled and pointed that bony finger at the president.  And eff her anyway- she's a drunk driver that never paid her debt to society but came out as tough on DUI- the top Hypocrite in the state.

One person's tragic losses are another person's reason to make jokes and faulty generalizations.

It is unfortunate that you are not able to discuss what your issue is regarding the way Gov. Brewer is handling the wildfire aftermath without attacking the woman based on her looks, bringing up something President Obama said was a classic example of things getting blown out of proportion, or bringing up an 25yr old incident for which she was never arrested nor charged. And somehow in this whole process, you make it sound like someone being tough on DUIs is a bad thing.

[Artemis Windsong]

Yikes.  I have a lot of thoughts on this.  The main one being.  If you live in a heavily forested area, the homeowner is lucky to have insurance.  Most of these places are self-insured.  The probability of a forest fire is high.  I know from personal experience.  It is not if there will be a forest fire but when.  We have been lucky to be bypassed on two separate fires.

These people are probably blowing money on lawyers that could be put to better use.  They could be suing G-d.
-------------
As a side note.  After one of the recent fires and at a funeral, some azhat said the whole thing should have burned.  Overheard by neighbors of the peeps who had lost everything.

[EVT1]

Dec 28, 2013 15:17:45 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 28, 2013 13:37:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

That's the bar- and I was joking.  Close to half of the state has non-hypocrites in it

Because she looks like one?  She is the one that scowled and pointed that bony finger at the president.  And eff her anyway- she's a drunk driver that never paid her debt to society but came out as tough on DUI- the top Hypocrite in the state.

One person's tragic losses are another person's reason to make jokes and faulty generalizations.

It is unfortunate that you are not able to discuss what your issue is regarding the way Gov. Brewer is handling the wildfire aftermath without attacking the woman based on her looks, bringing up something President Obama said was a classic example of things getting blown out of proportion, or bringing up an 25yr old incident for which she was never arrested nor charged. And somehow in this whole process, you make it sound like someone being tough on DUIs is a bad thing.

Whose? The only tragic losses I am aware of are dead fire fighters who should have been pulled back earlier rather than to defend damn property.

She is a right wing ideologue, and it is quite hypocritical for her to ask for help from FEMA to bail out private homeowners that should have had insurance on their property.  That's obvious. That's the crux of the biscuit. The GOP wants to get rid of FEMA remember.

[Artemis Windsong]

EVT1 - The Catch 22 scenario.

[AGB]

Dec 28, 2013 16:55:31 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Dec 28, 2013 15:17:45 GMT -5 AGB said:

One person's tragic losses are another person's reason to make jokes and faulty generalizations.

It is unfortunate that you are not able to discuss what your issue is regarding the way Gov. Brewer is handling the wildfire aftermath without attacking the woman based on her looks, bringing up something President Obama said was a classic example of things getting blown out of proportion, or bringing up an 25yr old incident for which she was never arrested nor charged. And somehow in this whole process, you make it sound like someone being tough on DUIs is a bad thing.

Whose? The only tragic losses I am aware of are dead fire fighters who should have been pulled back earlier rather than to defend damn property.

Of course they are tragic. And in a lesser sense, so are the property losses.

She is a right wing ideologue, and it is quite hypocritical for her to ask for help from FEMA to bail out private homeowners that should have had insurance on their property.  That's obvious. That's the crux of the biscuit. The GOP wants to get rid of FEMA remember.

I don't remember it being a GOP platform, I vaguely remember some Romney comments about privatizing disaster relief. We're all hypocrites, and I can think of worse things than a public servant listening to her constituents and trying to provide the help they ask for.

On the bright side, it has to be refreshing to see a right wing ideologue looking our for the elderly and the poor...

"Brewer, who announced her appeal at a Wednesday news conference, said the damage to uninsured and underinsured homes from the fire has risen since initial estimates. FEMA should consider the number of elderly and poor residents in Yarnell, she said, adding that the magnitude of the damage threatens the rural area's ability to recover and rebuild.

"An emergency declaration would assist those people affected by helping them pick up the pieces and begin rebuilding," said Brewer, who was joined at the news conference by four of Arizona's U.S. House members as well as two state lawmakers." link

And thanks for turning the discussion back around.

[EVT1]

So it is uninsured and underinsured homes.  I'll take pppppppppppppppppppersonal responsibility for $1000 Alex.

I read it was around 125 homes- and considering one of the claims of damage was 850K that's not poor people.

I have no problem with FEMA doing what is needed to evacuate the area, set up temporary medical, etc.  But AZ can't cough up some hotel rooms?  I do admit it is hard to rebuild when your 850K uninsured house turns to ash- but as the right would say- sucks to be you.  Should have made better decisions.

It is quite hard for me to stomach someone like her pleading for the elderly and poor though....but she did back the Medicaid expansion so I will concede she might sincerely care- at least about the local medical community more than she does about being a teabag.  I won't call her the cryptkeeper anymore out of support for that one.

[DVM gone riding]

Dec 26, 2013 23:04:52 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

They must think that the fire crew was negligent in some way.  Is this the only lawsuit, or are the other "claims" also suing?

From what I could tell they don't blame the fire crew at ALL they are joining WITH the firecrews families to collective sue higher up people for negligence. in poor communities it is common to have people own a $20,000 house/shack/mobile and have no insurance on it. We saw plenty of that in my area with the fire we had here, and yes there was a spat of lawsuits, actually I think the guilty entity may have simply starting paying out enough with min lawsuits because it was so pliantly obvious in the case locally who was at fault.

[EVT1]

Guilty entity?  Going to sue God?

Really though, almost impossible to show that had this or that decision been made then the fire would have not burned down everything.  It's a bullshit lawsuit.

[resolution]

She actually publicly supported a 1% sales tax to support children's programs and other social services at the height of the recession. It was an initiative that the public voted on, but she alienated most of the legislature by advocating for it.  She comes across as very conservative in the media but if you look at the issues she has supported she has always maintained a safety net for the children and the poor.

[DVM gone riding]

Dec 28, 2013 21:39:00 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Guilty entity?  Going to sue God?

Really though, almost impossible to show that had this or that decision been made then the fire would have not burned down everything.  It's a bullshit lawsuit.

I was referring to fire local to me I tried to make that clear. A lot of poor uninsured houses burnt here, in that case there was a construction induced incident in which they broke SEVERAL stated safety precautions, had been warned that the fire risk was extremely high and that they were NOT to do any certain type of work after a certain time of day. Yeah the construction company was held liable. didn't even begin to cover the trauma to residents as a fire whipped 20 miles in 2 hours threatened lives houses and lots and lots of animals. 

[AGB]

Dec 28, 2013 18:12:26 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

So it is uninsured and underinsured homes.  I'll take pppppppppppppppppppersonal responsibility for $1000 Alex.

I read it was around 125 homes- and considering one of the claims of damage was 850K that's not poor people.

I have no problem with FEMA doing what is needed to evacuate the area, set up temporary medical, etc.  But AZ can't cough up some hotel rooms?  I do admit it is hard to rebuild when your 850K uninsured house turns to ash- but as the right would say- sucks to be you.  Should have made better decisions.

It is quite hard for me to stomach someone like her pleading for the elderly and poor though....but she did back the Medicaid expansion so I will concede she might sincerely care- at least about the local medical community more than she does about being a teabag.  I won't call her the cryptkeeper anymore out of support for that one.

I think you are mixing up the FEMA aid Gov. Brewer was seeking with the lawsuit filed by the Overmyers against the city/the state/fire district.

Aside from providing aid to the uninsured/underinsured/elderly/poor, Gov. Brewer asked for FEMA assistance for this:
"The mounting costs of the Yarnell Hill Fire, the memorial and support for the families of the 19 fallen firefighters were among the expenses cited Wednesday by Gov. Jan Brewer in an appeal to President Barack Obama and the Federal Emergency Management Agency to declare the fire a major disaster.

So far, Brewer said, those costs have exceeded 10 percent of Prescott's annual budget and nearly half of its Fire Department's annual budget.
[...]
Brewer also wrote that FEMA did not adequately weigh the financial stress the fire has placed on Prescott and Yavapai County. For example, the city placed its entire firefighting crew on administrative leave to cope with the deaths of the Granite Mountain Hotshots, while other municipal fire companies responded to emergency calls. The city is now responsible for those costs." link

Not all of it was a request for handouts either:
"In a letter to Obama, Brewer also reiterated her request that federal officials quickly make low-interest loans available to some residents."

Not sure if you're familiar with SBA disaster loans, but it's actually a pretty good program. link