Another school shooting

[AGB]

Dec 13, 2013 15:36:12 GMT -5 steff said:

There are reports coming out of another school shooting in Centennial, Colorado (right near Littleton/Columbine).


How many more times do we have to watch kids running from a school with an active shooter before we pull our heads out of our asses?  How many dead kids makes it worth your gun rights? 

I'm so SICK of seeing/reading/hearing about school shootings.  Enough is fucking enough already!

What would have prevented this? What do you want done?

[zibazinski]

Take away the guns from responsible owners and all you will do is create an underground of guns. Prohibition didnt work, neither will taking the guns away. What it will do is make sure the criminals know the people can't defend themselves. Look at Chicago. They've bent their rules a bit FINALLY but not enough for me to feel safe even with cops every few feet.

[jkapp]

Dec 14, 2013 9:38:07 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I'm not a hard core gun control person, but we WOULD blame access to pot/drugs if that were involved.  

Actually whenever drugs come into an issue, it always seems like the left argues to make drugs more accessible.  That's opposite of their gun control debate

So say what you will about the gun advocates, at least they don't argue for more accessibility to guns whenever there are stories like this...

Acting like guns have nothing to do with these incidents makes no sense to me.

So what do want to do...arrest the gun?  I suppose you could strip it down and melt it into paperclips if it makes you feel better

[AGB]

Dec 14, 2013 17:10:21 GMT -5 jkapp said:

I suppose you could strip it down and melt it into paperclips if it makes you feel better

On a more serious note... I don't know where the shooter got the gun from, but on what grounds should he have been denied such a purchase?

[Peace Of Mind]

Dec 13, 2013 18:13:26 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Why are so many of these school shootings happening in Colorado?

Colorado has legalized recreational pot.

This is my best guess.

My best guess would be, had they already legalized pot (set to happen next year) and he was stoned, he wouldn't have wanted to go any where but the store for some more Doritos and other munchies.    I haven't smoked pot in many years but one thing it never made me was angry or suicidal.  It made me relaxed and very hungry. 

I just read that only one girl was shot and the other had the blood splatter from the one girl so they thought 2 were shot.  Many warm thoughts and prayers for that poor girl.  I feel so bad for her parents and right before Christmas too.  I feel bad for the other parents of the shooter but not as much.  I guess I should but I don't.  I really hope they find out why kids today think the only solution to their problems is killing others and/or themselves.  Too much of it happening...   

 

[Deleted]

Apparently Karl Pierson was mad at his debate teacher for barring him from the debate team. The news said this boy was argumentative.
If it hadn't been a gun, I believe it would have been some other weapon. He could have easily brought a bomb to school or set fire to the teacher's house. Guns are not the problem. Angry youth are the problem.

[zibazinski]

I agree. Unfortunately, we have not seen the end of this. Way too many kids are just not doing well mentally. Lots of reasons why that's happening but solutions don't seem to be on the table. I'm worried we will start screening kids young for mental health issues but then what? How can we fix what seems to be broken in them?

[cranberry49]

How about make a law to hold the parents of the 'shooters' responsible? If it is found out that the guns were taken from parents, grandparents, ANYONE THAT'S AN ADULT in charge of the weapons used in a shooting/killing, that they are held right along with the shooter and charged?! It's about damn time that irresponsible parents accept some of the blame! You want weapons in your house? Then do the responsible thing and lock them away in a place that has NO glass that can be broken into and keep the key away from everyone and don't let them know where it is! If this were your kid that was being shot and/or killed, I bet you all would be singing a different tune! Only ONE KID? REALLY?! That's too freaking much IMO!     

Of course, this will not stop all; however, it will hopefully slow down this crap.

[AGB]

Dec 14, 2013 17:59:11 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Apparently Karl Pierson was mad at his debate teacher for barring him from the debate team. The news said this boy was argumentative.
If it hadn't been a gun, I believe it would have been some other weapon. He could have easily brought a bomb to school or set fire to the teacher's house. Guns are not the problem. Angry youth are the problem.

He brought two molotov cocktails with him, one of which detonated. And yet, the knee jerk go to is gun rights.

[Peace Of Mind]

Dec 14, 2013 18:14:38 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

How about make a law to hold the parents of the 'shooters' responsible? If it is found out that the guns were taken from parents, grandparents, ANYONE THAT'S AN ADULT in charge of the weapons used in a killing, that they are held right along with the shooter and charged?! It's about damn time that irresponsible parents accept some of the blame! You want weapons in your house? Then do the responsible thing and lock them away in a place that has NO glass that can be broken into and keep the key away from everyone and don't let them know where it is! If this were your kid that was being shot and/or killed, I bet you all would be singing a different tune! Only ONE KID? REALLY?! That's too freaking much IMO!     

No kidding.  And if that is to my post you are taking what I said out of context.  When I said "only one" I meant instead of the two that was first reported. It was first reported that 2 were injured. Not that ONLY one kid was shot and that's not bad. 

[AGB]

Dec 14, 2013 18:14:38 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

How about make a law to hold the parents of the 'shooters' responsible? If it is found out that the guns were taken from parents, grandparents, ANYONE THAT'S AN ADULT in charge of the weapons used in a killing, that they are held right along with the shooter and charged?! It's about damn time that irresponsible parents accept some of the blame! You want weapons in your house? Then do the responsible thing and lock them away in a place that has NO glass that can be broken into and keep the key away from everyone and don't let them know where it is! If this were your kid that was being shot and/or killed, I bet you all would be singing a different tune! Only ONE KID? REALLY?! That's too freaking much IMO!     

The shooter was 18, an adult old enough to buy his own shotgun. On what grounds should he have been denied such a purchase?

[cranberry49]

I wasn't entirely talking about your post POM. It's just that cases like these are getting more common and I, like steff, am really getting sick of it-- and SOMETHING other than what's being done, needs to be done! 

Cause what we have now, is NOT working. 

[cranberry49]

Dec 14, 2013 18:32:50 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 14, 2013 18:14:38 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

How about make a law to hold the parents of the 'shooters' responsible? If it is found out that the guns were taken from parents, grandparents, ANYONE THAT'S AN ADULT in charge of the weapons used in a killing, that they are held right along with the shooter and charged?! It's about damn time that irresponsible parents accept some of the blame! You want weapons in your house? Then do the responsible thing and lock them away in a place that has NO glass that can be broken into and keep the key away from everyone and don't let them know where it is! If this were your kid that was being shot and/or killed, I bet you all would be singing a different tune! Only ONE KID? REALLY?! That's too freaking much IMO!     

The shooter was 18, an adult old enough to buy his own shotgun. On what grounds should he have been denied such a purchase?

For one thing, 18 is far too young! One can't even drink alcohol until 21. How about raising the age limit, for starters?

[Malarky]

Growing up, I didn't know anyone who didn't have access to guns.  But we didn't seem to use them in the same way as some kids today.

We used to hate the teachers.  We used to be bullied.  Our parents were lame and no one understood us.  Typical teenagers. 

Hmmm...What has changed?

We smother our youth.  We give them no life skills.  They are never allowed to fail and learn from it.  They can't go outside and play by themselves or in groups without adult supervision.  We intervene on their behalf at every opportunity.  We give them trophies for showing up and bonus points for remembering to put their name on their test papers.  We're more concerned with hurting their little feelings than teaching them empathy.  Add any propensity for mental illness and you have a potential disaster.

We need to be teaching them to live in the real world and we don't.  


This is not to excuse the people responsible for these actions.  It is merely to point out how much life has changed.  We spend a lot of time
on these boards promoting personal responsibility.  And yet, so many do not expect it from their children.  

 

[cranberry49]

Plus, if you will check, you will notice that most shootings are from younger teenagers that get the guns from a relative. 

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 18:36:38 GMT -5 Malarky said:

Growing up, I didn't know anyone who didn't have access to guns.  But we didn't seem to use them in the same way as some kids today.

We used to hate the teachers.  We used to be bullied.  Our parents were lame and no one understood us.  Typical teenagers. 

Hmmm...What has changed?

We smother our youth.  We give them no life skills.  They are never allowed to fail and learn from it.  They can't go outside and play by themselves or in groups without adult supervision.  We intervene on their behalf at every opportunity.  We give them trophies for showing up and bonus points for remembering to put their name on their test papers.  We're more concerned with hurting their little feelings than teaching them empathy.  Add any propensity for mental illness and you have a potential disaster.

We need to be teaching them to live in the real world and we don't.  


This is not to excuse the people responsible for these actions.  It is merely to point out how much life has changed.  We spend a lot of time
on these boards promoting personal responsibility.  And yet, so many do not expect it from their children.  

 

Then, there is the side I saw, where parents taught their kids through example that anger and throwing fits would get them their way. That they shouldn't take crap from anyone and that violence was the answer. 

[AGB]

Dec 14, 2013 18:34:08 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

I wasn't entirely talking about your post POM. It's just that cases like these are getting more common and I, like steff, am really getting sick of it-- and SOMETHING other than what's being done, needs to be done! 

Cause what we have now, is NOT working. 

What "SOMETHING" should be done?

[AGB]

Dec 14, 2013 18:35:59 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

Dec 14, 2013 18:32:50 GMT -5 AGB said:

The shooter was 18, an adult old enough to buy his own shotgun. On what grounds should he have been denied such a purchase?

For one thing, 18 is far too young! One can't even drink alcohol until 21. How about raising the age limit, for starters?

It's old enough to die for your country.

[AGB]

Dec 14, 2013 18:14:38 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

How about make a law to hold the parents of the 'shooters' responsible? If it is found out that the guns were taken from parents, grandparents, ANYONE THAT'S AN ADULT in charge of the weapons used in a shooting/killing, that they are held right along with the shooter and charged?! It's about damn time that irresponsible parents accept some of the blame! You want weapons in your house? Then do the responsible thing and lock them away in a place that has NO glass that can be broken into and keep the key away from everyone and don't let them know where it is! If this were your kid that was being shot and/or killed, I bet you all would be singing a different tune! Only ONE KID? REALLY?! That's too freaking much IMO!     

Of course, this will not stop all; however, it will hopefully slow down this crap.

"He had legally purchased a 12-gauge shotgun at a Denver-area gun store on Dec. 6, and bought ammunition Thursday, Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson said this afternoon. "

link

[Opti]

Since most of the guns used in recent school shootings are legal I don't
believe gun control is the answer for this particular problem. Nor do I believe
it is caused by inherent underlying mental illness.



What I do believe is now and in the past there are people who don't know
how to deal with their anger, setbacks, etc. Mental health, coping skills,
and resilence IMO are learned. They aren't inherent just by being born human.
Perhaps one thing that might work is adding mental health, coping skills,
resilence etc. to school curiculms. It could help lessen things that have been going
on for years like spouses who kill their other half and then very often kill themselves
in remorse. Movies, TV, and even views I read on P&M often promote the idea
that killing someone is a viable and good way to resolve a problem. It rarely is
unless of course you are in a situation where you will die unless you injure or
kill your attacker. Otherwise, the problem follows you as it doesn't live in whoever
it is even if they are part of what brings that issue forward.


Teaching people how to cope with anger, setbacks, frustration, etc. could
pay off handsomely. Looking for a quick or semi-easy fix like more gun
legislation or more mental health screenings won't prevent anything. If you
want to solve the problem you need to address why the person thinks
going and killing someone is going to improve their life in any way whatsoever.
Kids especially need to learn that failure or setbacks are not forever. Most
very successful and happy people are that way because they learned to triumph
over disappointments and failure.

[Malarky]

Dec 14, 2013 20:27:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

Since most of the guns used in recent school shootings are legal I don't
believe gun control is the answer for this particular problem. Nor do I believe
it is caused by inherent underlying mental illness.



What I do believe is now and in the past there are people who don't know
how to deal with their anger, setbacks, etc. Mental health, coping skills,
and resilence IMO are learned. They aren't inherent just by being born human.
Perhaps one thing that might work is adding mental health, coping skills,
resilence etc. to school curiculms. It could help lessen things that have been going
on for years like spouses who kill their other half and then very often kill themselves
in remorse. Movies, TV, and even views I read on P&M often promote the idea
that killing someone is a viable and good way to resolve a problem. It rarely is
unless of course you are in a situation where you will die unless you injure or
kill your attacker. Otherwise, the problem follows you as it doesn't live in whoever
it is even if they are part of what brings that issue forward.


Teaching people how to cope with anger, setbacks, frustration, etc. could
pay off handsomely. Looking for a quick or semi-easy fix like more gun
legislation or more mental health screenings won't prevent anything. If you
want to solve the problem you need to address why the person thinks
going and killing someone is going to improve their life in any way whatsoever.
Kids especially need to learn that failure or setbacks are not forever. Most
very successful and happy people are that way because they learned to triumph
over disappointments and failure.

So very much this! 

[Jaguar]

An Update about the Victim:

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/14/21903869-colorado-shooting-victim-is-great-student-avid-horse-lover

[dothedd]

Dec 13, 2013 20:33:19 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Why is it always the boys that act out this way?

MALE HORMONE  IS A VERY STRANGE STRUCTURE!    

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 18:29:52 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 14, 2013 17:59:11 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Apparently Karl Pierson was mad at his debate teacher for barring him from the debate team. The news said this boy was argumentative.
If it hadn't been a gun, I believe it would have been some other weapon. He could have easily brought a bomb to school or set fire to the teacher's house. Guns are not the problem. Angry youth are the problem.

He brought two molotov cocktails with him, one of which detonated. And yet, the knee jerk go to is gun rights.

Yes. I heard this after I wrote the post. Makes my point.
There is no way we can screen all of these kids, in order to determine whether they have the potential to do something like this.
And there is no way that we will ever be a gun free country. 
I do like Cranberry's suggestion that we start coming down hard on the parents and guardians who are allowing these kids access to weapons.

[whoisjohngalt]

Dec 14, 2013 9:38:07 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I'm not a hard core gun control person, but we WOULD blame access to pot/drugs if that were involved.  Acting like guns have nothing to do with these incidents makes no sense to me.  

It takes 5 minutes, may be less if you are "google savy" to find how to make a home made bomb on the internet.  should we start banning household products as well?

when someone wants to kill someone or himself, they will find a way - gun or no gun.

Heck, you can run over your enemy with a car......

[whoisjohngalt]

Dec 14, 2013 18:14:38 GMT -5 cranberry49 said:

How about make a law to hold the parents of the 'shooters' responsible? If it is found out that the guns were taken from parents, grandparents, ANYONE THAT'S AN ADULT in charge of the weapons used in a shooting/killing, that they are held right along with the shooter and charged?! It's about damn time that irresponsible parents accept some of the blame! You want weapons in your house? Then do the responsible thing and lock them away in a place that has NO glass that can be broken into and keep the key away from everyone and don't let them know where it is! If this were your kid that was being shot and/or killed, I bet you all would be singing a different tune! Only ONE KID? REALLY?! That's too freaking much IMO!     

Of course, this will not stop all; however, it will hopefully slow down this crap.

No it won't.  If anyone wants to get a gun, he doesn't need his parents for that.

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2013 21:40:35 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Dec 14, 2013 9:38:07 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I'm not a hard core gun control person, but we WOULD blame access to pot/drugs if that were involved.  Acting like guns have nothing to do with these incidents makes no sense to me.  

It takes 5 minutes, may be less if you are "google savy" to find how to make a home made bomb on the internet.  should we start banning household products as well?

when someone wants to kill someone or himself, they will find a way - gun or no gun.

Heck, you can run over your enemy with a car......

Heck...you can make a gun.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Dec 14, 2013 18:36:38 GMT -5 Malarky said:

Growing up, I didn't know anyone who didn't have access to guns.  But we didn't seem to use them in the same way as some kids today.

We used to hate the teachers.  We used to be bullied.  Our parents were lame and no one understood us.  Typical teenagers. 

Hmmm...What has changed?

We smother our youth.  We give them no life skills.  They are never allowed to fail and learn from it.  They can't go outside and play by themselves or in groups without adult supervision.  We intervene on their behalf at every opportunity.  We give them trophies for showing up and bonus points for remembering to put their name on their test papers.  We're more concerned with hurting their little feelings than teaching them empathy.  Add any propensity for mental illness and you have a potential disaster.

We need to be teaching them to live in the real world and we don't.  


This is not to excuse the people responsible for these actions.  It is merely to point out how much life has changed.  We spend a lot of time
on these boards promoting personal responsibility.  And yet, so many do not expect it from their children.  

 

And compared to when you (or I) were kids/teens, how many today are now being pumped full of prescription drugs (Ritalin, Wellbutrin, etc just to name two) by their Doctors/Pediatricians at a very early age - rather than parents dealing with behavioral issues when the child is still young. By the time they're teens, their systems need those meds to continue functioning calmly. If they're not still taking the meds regularly, anything could set them off.

[TheOtherMe]

Claire Davis is who we should be discussing.  Claire Davis died of her wounds yesterday, an innocent victim.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 22, 2013 18:35:45 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Claire Davis is who we should be discussing.  Claire Davis died of her wounds yesterday, an innocent victim.

That was very sad news.  Another family tragedy at Christmas time.