SYG- Wandering alzheimer's patient shot by homeowner

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 2, 2013 18:26:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil Showlion - my mother was a 'runner' (with her walker no less), always trying to escape her secured Alzheimer's facilty.  Where she was trying to escape to, she of all people had no idea.  Had she escaped, possibly no good could have come from it.  Confusion reigns supreme.

Alzheimer's sufferers often are up late at night as they cannot sleep.  So they walk, and walk, and walk.  If they are being taken care of by family in their homes, the family needs to make sure the mentally impaired family member cannot escape the house morning, noon or night.  Sometimes the escape (as what appears to have happened to this older man) ends in tragedy.

No matter how badly the guy who shot the guy feels, the family of the dead man feels even worse for not making sure he couldn't escape the house.

Most security systems can be set to trigger an alarm whenever a door or window is opened while the system is active. That seems like a simpler option than locking a house down like a fortress.

Unless the Alzheimer's sufferer will make a run for it or is incessantly tripping the alarms. But in either of those cases, the person clearly needs to be in an institution equipped for that kind of thing.

[Cookies Galore]

Dec 2, 2013 16:01:41 GMT -5 workpublic said:

dementia's a tough one. at least with ALS(what my mother died from) i'll be able to poison myself once the diagnosis is made.

My father-in-law has ALS. He moved into a home today and I think the end will be coming soon. I hope it's by his choosing and he can let go before the disease progresses even more.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 2, 2013 18:44:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 2, 2013 18:26:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil Showlion - my mother was a 'runner' (with her walker no less), always trying to escape her secured Alzheimer's facilty.  Where she was trying to escape to, she of all people had no idea.  Had she escaped, possibly no good could have come from it.  Confusion reigns supreme.

Alzheimer's sufferers often are up late at night as they cannot sleep.  So they walk, and walk, and walk.  If they are being taken care of by family in their homes, the family needs to make sure the mentally impaired family member cannot escape the house morning, noon or night.  Sometimes the escape (as what appears to have happened to this older man) ends in tragedy.

No matter how badly the guy who shot the guy feels, the family of the dead man feels even worse for not making sure he couldn't escape the house.

Most security systems can be set to trigger an alarm whenever a door or window is opened while the system is active. That seems like a simpler option than locking a house down like a fortress.

Unless the Alzheimer's sufferer will make a run for it or is incessantly tripping the alarms. But in either of those cases, the person clearly needs to be in an institution equipped for that kind of thing.

Family members can take care of an AD sufferer in its early stages.  After that it requires round-the-clock care and watching.  It is exhausting for the family.  Confined to a AD facility is best for the patient.  

[Tennesseer]

Dec 2, 2013 18:44:55 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Dec 2, 2013 16:01:41 GMT -5 workpublic said:

dementia's a tough one. at least with ALS(what my mother died from) i'll be able to poison myself once the diagnosis is made.

My father-in-law has ALS. He moved into a home today and I think the end will be coming soon. I hope it's by his choosing and he can let go before the disease progresses even more.

My condolences, meghan.

[Opti]

This is a sad story, but perhaps only a minor tragedy.
Like at least one other poster I'm wondering if it was a blessing
in disguise if the Alzheimer's guy died quickly.


Its crazy to me the homeowner shot him without even knowing
there was a threat to worry about though. I think some people
are so paranoid they assume the worst instead of actually
determining whether there is really much danger or not.

 For the deceased and his family

[Tennesseer]

Dec 2, 2013 18:57:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

This is a sad story, but perhaps only a minor tragedy.
Like at least one other poster I'm wondering if it was a blessing
in disguise if the Alzheimer's guy died quickly.


Its crazy to me the homeowner shot him without even knowing
there was a threat to worry about though. I think some people
are so paranoid they assume the worst instead of actually
determining whether there is really much danger or not.

 For the deceased and his family

My mother 'died' several years before her physical death.  Her fatal heart attack was a blessing and welcomed by her family.

[zibazinski]

It costs a small fortune to be in a nursing home and homes for dementia/Alzheimer's costs even more. Even then the care isn't so hot and theres a chance of escaping as well. DFs aunt is going through this right now with her husband. They just expect some 80 year old to care for another 80 year old with the skills and behavior of a 2 year old. We took her to dinner a couple of Friday nights ago and got her out of that house. He'd been calling her name all F-ing day long over and over again. She was just about crazy herself. Paid for the babysitter and got her a good dinner and a fair amount of wine trying to get her to relax a bit. Just knowing she had to return to that hell hole made me sick.

[EVT1]

Dec 2, 2013 17:24:04 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 2, 2013 16:12:45 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

An unknown person coming toward you in the dark, refusing your command to stop, and being in your yard at 4am in the first place doesn't sound dangerous to you?

Granted my first thought is they're probably drunk off their ass mistook our house for theirs and are trying to come in the back because their key isn't working in the front, but that's only because it's happened to us twice when I was a kid. All the houses look the same in government housing complexes.

Not inherently "get the shotgun" dangerous, no. But I've been accused of being naive more than once.

That's what this case boils down to. Either you consider "unknown person coming towards you, 4:00 AM, refusing to stop" a likely serious threat of harm, or you don't. If you do, this shooting is justified. It turned out to be a harmless lost old man in this case, but the shooter doesn't have the luxury of time to make that determination.

If you don't (and I'm in this basket), then it's manslaughter or homicide--whatever the courts decide to proceed with. The shooter exercised force grossly disproportionate to the threat presented.

The only place I see SYG having any bearing is the issue of whether an armed homeowner has a duty of care to wait inside his home rather than confronting a suspected burglar, etc.

The reason SYG comes into it is that there is no longer a duty to retreat if safe to do so.   Before that the only place you could use deadly force without first trying to escape the situation was in your own home.

He would have been arrested prior to SYG because there is not any evidence this was self defense or any evidence he tried to retreat- but now that SYG is on the books 'reasonable fear' can be enough to justify shooting someone- which likely will be up to a jury to decide. That's the problem with the law- it doesn't matter if the threat was real or not- like this case coming up in FL- man 'thought he saw a gun'- might just be enough to let him off- probably will since he killed some black kids with a loud radio.  Doesn't matter he was drunk, fled the scene, started the incident- none of it.

If this was FL he would get away scot free. Even the cop said the guy was scared- and it is reasonable. Being a dumbfuck and going outside doesn't enter in to it. That would be felony stupid- unfortunately not illegal.

*** But this was an old white guy that got shot- so my guess is people are going to have a problem with it.  I'm assuming the shooter was white since he has not been charged yet.