Why not just take the ticket?

[nogooddeed]

I saw coverage over the weekend of the following:

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/state-trooper-shoots-speeding-woman-kids-article-1.1519817

In no way do I condone the police shooting at the van, but why didn't she just take the ticket, especially if the drug paraphenalia wasn't in plain site?  I doubt the cops would have thought she had drugs with 5 kids in the van.  She had to know that driving off would not end well for her.  Did she choose to endanger her kids foolishly or was she fearful of the police?  What gets me is that she has a parenting blog.  Don't think I'll take tips from her anytime soon.

Discuss please..............

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

After watching multiple cop/police video shows it never seems to end well if you run.  Better to stay put and take your lumps rather than end up with even more serious charges.    Seems to go a lot better if you are respectful and cooperate.  If you have a beef with the cop take it up in court, don't engage in a car chase. That's my take anyway. 

Read the article and OMFG I would have beat my son if he acted that way towards a cop.  Great way to get yourself shot.  Sit your ass down, face forward, hands in lap.

All her and her idiot older son did was endanger the little ones in the car.  Plus now momma faces a whole host of charges rather than just a speeding ticket.  Hope it was worth it.

[busymom]

Why would the 14-year-old think trying to beat up a cop was a good idea?  He must have learned it somewhere.  I'm thinking social services needs to keep all of those kids.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't understand why they didn't just follow her.  Eventually, she had to stop.  What was so important, they had to endnger themselves, the woman, her children and any other person who happened to be on the road at that time?  There is probably more to the story that hasn't come out yet.

[sarcasticgirl]

WTF?!?!

she is completely guilty of putting her kids at risk. ALL she had to do was sit her ass in the car and take the ticket and go on her way.  people are crazy. 

[Chocolate Lover]

I saw about 30 seconds of this on the news yesterday and argued with DH over it. I agree she was just stupid but I think it was a bit excessive beating out a window and shooting at the van. DH said maybe they were shooting at the tires. I was on the side of not everyone is a perfect shot like on TV. There's plenty of blame for both sides. Mom should have stayed calm and just dealt but I don't think there was a need for shooting at them either. 


So, I don't disagree with any of you, but I think the officers overreacted a bit at the same time. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You'd think by now people would be aware of dashboard cams.  While they can catch bad behavior on the part of the cops YOUR behavior is being recorded too.  Not sure how well "Oh I was just so scared!" is going to hold up when your son is caught on video threatening the cop.

It seems like everyone just assumes it'll make the cops look guilty.  No one stops to think the video can bite them in the ass too.

And I would think if you fear you're up against a trigger happy cop the LAST thing you'd want to do is give them a reason to get trigger happy.

I don't swallow the idea that people flee because they are "so scared".  I think the flee because they are actually stupid enough to believe they'll get away.

The investigation will show if the cops over-reacted and if they did there should be consequences.  But still the whole thing could have been avoided if mom and her son had behaved like rational people.

[Chocolate Lover]

Nov 19, 2013 11:28:15 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

You'd think by now people would be aware of dashboard cams.  While they can catch bad behavior on the part of the cops YOUR behavior is being recorded too.  Not sure how well "Oh I was just so scared!" is going to hold up when your son is caught on video threatening the cop.

It seems like everyone just assumes it'll make the cops look guilty.  No one stops to think the video can bite them in the ass too.

And I would think if you fear you're up against a trigger happy cop the LAST thing you'd want to do is give them a reason to get trigger happy.

I don't swallow the idea that people flee because they are "so scared".  I think the flee because they are actually stupid enough to believe they'll get away.

The investigation will show if the cops over-reacted and if they did there should be consequences.  But still the whole thing could have been avoided if mom and her son had behaved like rational people.

I agree, it was her fault that it got that bad in the first place. 100%.  It just doesn't sit well with me that they shot at a van full of kids. They knew there were kids, the commentary in the article mentions being able to hear the kids yelling.  It's not like this woman was on the 10 Most Wanted list, they could have (and did) chase her down.  Maybe there's something I am missing but my first response is that they shouldn't have. JMO. 

[973beachbum]

I watched that video on the news this morning.  Those type of things are really a fight or flight type of thing.  There is literally no thought process to them, instinct just takes over.  So while it may have been more prudent to not do something people will only be able to think that through much later.

As far as the boy I saw that part a few times on the news.  He only jumped out of the car and ran over after the one officer had grabbbed his sister and was twisting her arm behind her back.  there was no audio but I would imagine she was screaming.  Obviously a gun beats anything that 14 year old had his first instinct was to protect his sister.  That really isn't evidence of a bad kid. 

As far as the shooting the only reason a officer has to use deadly force against someone is if they feel deadly force is going to be used against them.  Even the police aren't alleging that. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I've been with DH and recieved a ticket on three different occassions.  We've never ended up being shot out and on a high speed chase.  Maybe we're just lucky and never encountered a crazy cop?

Something/someone escalated the situation since in general you don't end up on a high speed chase with bullets flying when pulled over for speeding.

I'm not saying the cops are right or didn't overreact, but I don't swallow her lawyer's version of events that she was just a poor terrified mother who couldn't control her actions either.

[Chocolate Lover]

Nov 19, 2013 11:48:56 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I've been with DH and recieved a ticket on three different occassions.  We've never ended up being shot out and on a high speed chase.  Maybe we're just lucky and never encountered a crazy cop?

Something/someone escalated the situation since in general you don't end up on a high speed chase with bullets flying when pulled over for speeding.

I'm not saying the cops are right or didn't overreact, but I don't swallow her lawyer's version of events that she was just a poor terrified mother who couldn't control her actions either.

I don't buy her version either, but I expect a cop's training to kick in and keep him from firing on a vehicle full of kids who aren't presenting him any physical threat. That's all I'm saying. At the point he started firing, everyone was in the van and leaving. Bad, yes. Life threatening to him? No.

[alabamagal]

The back of the van has tinted windows and the side windows likely may have had also been tinted.  I don't know if the cops could really tell who was in the back.  Yes there were kids, but could be other adults.

She should not have run from the cops.
She should have exited the car when asked by the police.

[swamp]

She was wrong.  Cops made it worse. 

ETA:  I'm pretty sure the cop violated the weapon discharge policy.    I don't get why shooting was necessary.   The minivan can't outrun a radio.  

[Abby Normal]

Nov 19, 2013 12:36:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

She was wrong.  Cops made it worse. 

Of course.  They'll find the cop was wrong for shooting at the kids, someone will file a lawsuit for a gob of money and the kids will grow up thinking it's ok to run from the cops.

[Deleted]

Respect my authoritay.

[swamp]

Nov 19, 2013 12:39:38 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Nov 19, 2013 12:36:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

She was wrong.  Cops made it worse. 

Of course.  They'll find the cop was wrong for shooting at the kids, someone will file a lawsuit for a gob of money and the kids will grow up thinking it's ok to run from the cops.

they can file a lawsuit, but nobody got hurt.  they won't win.  no damages.  mom is the original one at fault, though.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I'm going to talk about something that happened to me and some friends. It made me realize that cops do not always approach a car in the same demeanor and accepting a ticket isn't all of it.

My best friend in TX and I went with a third guy to Houston for a car show. My friend had a classic car and we went there for a car show. The 3 of us were driving around Houston, late at night looking for a place to eat. It was an unfamiliar city and we had no idea where we were going, so were driving rather aimlessly. Oh, me and my friend are white females, the guy is black. He was driving.

We got pulled over by cops. The demeanor of the cops as he approached the car was downright scary. I had been stopped for a traffic infraction myself and had NEVER seen anything like that before. The cop had pulled his gun, and while it was pointed down, it still gave my stomach a lurch. It wasn't until he got closer to the car and saw me and my friend in the car too that his demeanor changed, it did a 180 and he went from scary cop to a normal cop stop in a heartbeat. There is no doubt in my brain that if both of us weren't in the car with him, something would have happened. We weren't speeding. We weren't drunk. There was absolutely NO reason for that cop to stop us, but he did.

Then something similar happened to us in Luchenbach. Same group of people, same car.

While I don't condone the woman's actions, I DO understand them. Especially after those 2 incidents.

[swamp]

DH got a cop to pull his gun on him when he got pulled over for speeding.  I was in labor and we were on our way to the hospital. I told him not to get out of the car.  He did.  He got the gun pulled on him. He got back in the car.  I called him an asshole (DH, not the cop).   He did not get a ticket.

[cronewitch]

She thought she could out run him when he went back to his car. She knew he knew she had kids so he wouldn't shoot her. She didn't know back up might not have known about the kids so would shoot. She doesn't seem to have any respect for the law or think she or the children need to follow instructions like turning off the engine or getting out.

Once she decided to try to evade the law things escalated. The police were probably afraid of her because she was acting reckless trying to escape and was driving a vehicle with tinted windows. Maybe tinted windows are normal there because they have sun but here in Seattle only sneaky people have tinted windows.

[imawino]

Nov 19, 2013 12:39:38 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Nov 19, 2013 12:36:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

She was wrong.  Cops made it worse. 

Of course.  They'll find the cop was wrong for shooting at the kids, someone will file a lawsuit for a gob of money and the kids will grow up thinking it's ok to run from the cops.

Assuming your premise is correct, and they find the cop was wrong for shooting at the kids - it could be that the kids grow up believing it's NOT okay for a police officer to open fire at a van full of kids posing no imminent danger to him.  Would that be a terrible lesson?

[Clever Username]

I think much can be understood by the simple statement of the title of this thread.

Why not just take the ticket?

When understanding the cop's reactions and overreactions, the same question is in their heads.
When confronted with getting a ticket with "presumably" their kids in the car, the driver chose to run.


 

[Abby Normal]

Nov 19, 2013 15:55:16 GMT -5 imawino said:

Nov 19, 2013 12:39:38 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Of course.  They'll find the cop was wrong for shooting at the kids, someone will file a lawsuit for a gob of money and the kids will grow up thinking it's ok to run from the cops.

Assuming your premise is correct, and they find the cop was wrong for shooting at the kids - it could be that the kids grow up believing it's NOT okay for a police officer to open fire at a van full of kids posing no imminent danger to him.  Would that be a terrible lesson?

Or they sue for emotional trauma- get a ridiculous amount of money and grow up with a "that was worth it" mindset.

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 19, 2013 12:04:34 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

The back of the van has tinted windows and the side windows likely may have had also been tinted.  I don't know if the cops could really tell who was in the back.  Yes there were kids, but could be other adults.

She should not have run from the cops.
She should have exited the car when asked by the police.

Exactly and where I live, if there is drug paraphenalia in a house, it's considered child endangerment. That may well be why she acted like she did.  

I also wonder where the 14 year old got the idea to get out of the car and behave the way he did.

I was taught that if a police officer is pulling you over, you do what you are told to do.

I got one ticket in my life and never felt threatened.

I was assisted by a police officer when my car broke down before cell phones.  He had a bullhorn and told me to stay in the car, that he would come to me.  I did as I was told.  

I do think the mother caused the situation to escalate, but the cops overreacted and should not have been shooting at the car.  However, mom got them all crazy in the first place with her behavior.  She was clocked going about 15 miles over the speed limit.  She may have been smoking pot.  She knew she had the pipes in the car.  That is probably what freaked her out.  If she would have obeyed, she would have gotten a ticket and been on her way.

[Tennesseer]

The woman driver and her family are from the city where I live. Local televsion news had a few news features on her and she has a criminal record from here. Not sure though exactly what the convictions are.

[zibazinski]

Hoping she rots in jail and her children are raised by decent people. Neither will ever happen.

[kayak]

Nov 19, 2013 10:59:19 GMT -5 nogooddeed said:

  What gets me is that she has a parenting blog.  

How many hits has that blog received since the news?

[Miss Tequila]

Nov 19, 2013 22:11:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The woman driver and her family are from the city where I live. Local televsion news had a few news features on her and she has a criminal record from here. Not sure though exactly what the convictions are.

It certainly isn't shocking that she has a criminal record.  I can't believe your normal, law-abiding citizen would think trying to outrun the cops is a good idea.

[zibazinski]

But she still has custody of those kids. What the hell, huh?

[Tennesseer]

Nov 20, 2013 8:15:32 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Nov 19, 2013 22:11:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The woman driver and her family are from the city where I live. Local televsion news had a few news features on her and she has a criminal record from here. Not sure though exactly what the convictions are.

It certainly isn't shocking that she has a criminal record.  I can't believe your normal, law-abiding citizen would think trying to outrun the cops is a good idea.

The news piece stated she claimed she was a motivational speaker by profession. The first thing that came to my mind was that she is a 'member'of the Moorish American Nationals/Soverign Citizens movement. Local, state and federal laws do not apply to them according to them.