workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
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Post by workpublic on Nov 15, 2013 16:05:45 GMT -5
I know a madoff "victim" the "victims" greed also plays into the success of ponzi schemes/cons
he was riding smug and high when he was in the "exclusive" investment group. not so much now. not destitute either. his wife has a big job with IBM.
one thing madoff did do was refuse to let spouses of investors in. maybe that should have been a red flag?
that way in his warped mind i think he absolved himself rationalizing that at least the spouse would have some of "their" money left. and in the case of the person I know that's exactly what saved them from the poor house.
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workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
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Post by workpublic on Nov 15, 2013 16:09:15 GMT -5
Secret handshakes. that and nude wrestling. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) i never had the personality for fraternities/towel snapping and their ilk. no hazing for or from me.
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Lizard King
Senior Member
It's an anagram, you know.
Joined: Nov 6, 2013 16:22:24 GMT -5
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Favorite Drink: La Fee Verte
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 16:11:42 GMT -5
The first rule of nude wrestling club is don't talk about nude wrestling club.
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Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Nov 15, 2013 16:13:19 GMT -5
Huh... ours was no wandering fingers. Must have been a different frat.
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happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 15, 2013 18:37:38 GMT -5
the biggest thieves out there are the rich, imo. but apparently we have a difference of opinion, here. i say that because a rich guy can easily walk away with millions. poor people are petty theives. it would take them a lifetime to steal that much, and they will likely be killed or caught long before then.easily walk away with millions? white collar crime is prevalent......and in those cases the perpetrators do get away with more than a routine robbery it is a whole different type of crime...... madoff is the perfect example....he ruined a lot of lives but i would still rather deal with the madoff's of the world than a kid brandishing a .45 in a bank robbery where he is likely to shoot and kill someone neither are good for anyone.....but at least in madoff's case, the people are still breathing I think you have to consider the number of victims impacted. If a petty thief shoots a 911 store owner while committing a robbery, he kills that guy and impacts that guy's family. You take someone like Bernie Madoff who defrauded something like 13,500 people with his Ponzi investment scheme - how many of those people maybe committed suicide? How many families got divorces, how many people started drinking or abusing drugs, or started abusing their kids? Sure the consequence for the one dead man is acute and permanent, but the number of both direct and indirect victims to a white collar scheme like Madoff's, to me, makes him much worse. He seriously derailed literally tens of thousands of people's lives. I also think the white collar criminal has worse motives. Usually the petty thief has basic needs he's trying to fullfill - food, money for drugs or liquor. A white collar criminal doesn't have those needs, because they are comfortably well off and don't have to worry about where their next meal or mortgage payment is coming from. They're scheming for the really big payout - the yachts, the private islands, the private jets, etc - or maybe they're just a type A a-hole who wants to prove he has the biggest dick in the room. No sympathy for him. Perhaps a tiny shred of sympathy for the petty thief who is hungry or in drug withdrawal. Tiny - very tiny.
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Deleted
Joined: Jun 25, 2024 19:03:18 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 19:21:33 GMT -5
Yeah, but for every wealthy criminal that hurts thousands, there are likely hundreds or thousands of small time criminal acts also hurting thousands.
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djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 15, 2013 22:19:50 GMT -5
the biggest thieves out there are the rich, imo. but apparently we have a difference of opinion, here. i say that because a rich guy can easily walk away with millions. poor people are petty theives. it would take them a lifetime to steal that much, and they will likely be killed or caught long before then.easily walk away with millions? white collar crime is prevalent......and in those cases the perpetrators do get away with more than a routine robbery it is a whole different type of crime...... madoff is the perfect example....he ruined a lot of lives he was PRECISELY the person i was thinking of when i made that comment.but i would still rather deal with the madoff's of the world than a kid brandishing a .45 in a bank robbery where he is likely to shoot and kill someone the kid in the bank would have to rob a LOT of banks to do as much harm has Madoff did.neither are good for anyone.....but at least in madoff's case, the people are still breathing very few bank robberies result in fatality. so then, it becomes madoffs millions -vs- some kid's take.
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EVT1
Junior Associate
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 15, 2013 22:22:25 GMT -5
the way i look at it is this......i think the people that have more, have more to lose, and because of that, keep their noses clean for the most part
interesting perspective. but there is a difference between unethical, and illegal. for example- if i sense that i can get an extra 20% out of you for something i sell, i could try to get it. is that ethical? Paul would say yes. i say no. i follow price lists. everyone pays the same.
here we differ......i say yes on some things....and no on others....let me explain i am in the car business. It is the only business i know of, where the manufacturers of a product post the wholesale amounts their dealers pay. there are businesses built just on the premise of helping the consumer obtain the best deal available on a car purchase i will tell you this much......if every consumer were educated and limited the profit of the deal like the really savvy buyers, dealers would be out of business in no time or they would have to completely change the way the dealership concept works as it is, most dealers across the country are barely eeking out a profit so no...there is no price lists.....other than the MSRP sticker from the factory and in the used car side, there is no such thing as a used car factory.....every unit is different (miles, equipment, condition, etc) Now that is on car sales.....it is completely opposite on parts & service there...everyone pays exactly the same amount for a oil change, a tire rotation, or other associated basic maintenance items unless they need specialty oil (synthesized) or something weird different facilities will charge different labor rates, but almost every dealer across the country uses the standardized books for calculating the time the job allows so yes....and no.... Didn't Saturn try that? Sure there are some educated consumers- but they will never catch up or understand what happens in the sales department of a dealership. Many ways to skin a cat as you know. I do find it interesting that the loathed service departments of the past- are now profit centers and sales is dragging ass. The service department used to be viewed as a necessary evil. Wound up in the GM's office with a waiting customer that lost their mind when they were charged an hour of labor for a window regulator and was out in :30. Thought the police were going to be called. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) The man could not understand flat rate for anything- because he saw the sign with the labor rate/hr and just knew he got overcharged 30 minutes. Now imagine when the smart customer figures out grid pricing and how some of these unethical dealerships use it to really screw customers. Sonic automotive group comes to mind. Investors got to get paid I guess- plus that nice building and extra layer of managment isn't cheap.
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djAdvocate
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only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 15, 2013 22:46:59 GMT -5
Having reviewed half a dozen books in the British Library, I conclude Dr Seuss wrote everything. the ratio of books by Dr. Seuss to total volumes in the British library is insignificant compared to the number of incidences of cannibalism at Bain compared to total major business transactions.
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djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 15, 2013 22:49:18 GMT -5
Yeah, but for every wealthy criminal that hurts thousands, there are likely hundreds or thousands of small time criminal acts also hurting thousands. this is precisely the sort of math i was thinking off. one Madoff = thousands of petty thieves.
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EVT1
Junior Associate
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 16, 2013 0:55:08 GMT -5
The Smartest Guys In The Room isn't that what the ivy league has been foisting on us for the last three decades in earnest? what are they teaching in those "hallowed halls"? Great film- want to talk about people that have an entitlement attitude.... The other component to this would be a film called The Corporation. It explains a lot. These people are that disconnected- a couple of good books- Free Lunch, Richistan- have interviews with these clueless people- and some are very defensive. They are just better than you because of their own smarts and actions and nothing bursts that bubble, ever. Evidently they are teaching elitism.
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Lizard King
Senior Member
It's an anagram, you know.
Joined: Nov 6, 2013 16:22:24 GMT -5
Posts: 2,589
Favorite Drink: La Fee Verte
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 16, 2013 12:39:20 GMT -5
If only they had the humility to recognize the limitations of their viewpoints, like we do. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/sarcasm.png)
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