Paying For Grades

[isabella]

My high school student has an opportunity to score some extra credit for a class ...

The assignment, watch the movie that the teacher has chosen, it is currently playing at the theater and then writing a paper. The movie is rated R and my son is underage so I as an adult will have to watch the movie with my son.

The cost per ticket is $8.50 and of course I'm sure we will get snacks and a drink which I know are an optional expense.

So the cost of bumping his grade up will be at least $17.00 for the cost of tickets, time watching the movie and his time/effort writing the paper.

What do you think about buying a grade increase in this way?

ETA.... the movie is Company of Men, rated R for language, drinking, smoking, some nudity, suicide, tense family confrontations. This is from a review I read online.
From a couple of people I have talked to it also has a political aspect to it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I wouldn't unless it was needed to bump him up a grade level, like if he was sitting at a C- and we could bump him up to a C or sitting at C and we could bump him up to a B.

But if he already had a B or an A in the class I would pass because a few more points really isn't going to make that much of a difference unless he is on the cusp of a differen't grade level.

[alabamagal]

A high school teacher should not be recommending that underage children do a project on an R rated movie. It is rated R for a reason. Now I am a parent of 3 teens and they have all been allowed to watch R rated movies (on TV) but that was my decision. I would have a real problem with a teacher recommending this.

If it wasn't for the parent having to attend (due to the R rating) I would say it is a good opportunity.

The student would not be paying for the grades, he would be working to improve his grade.

[sheilaincali]

Out of curiosity- what is the movie the teacher suggested he see? I remember when Romeo and Juliet came out (the one with Leo and Claire Danes) the theaters were full of kids seeing it for extra credit. I guess it got them to "understand Shakespeare" or something like that.

I don't have an issue with the rating- that's for a parent to figure out if they want their kid to watch it or not. Have you asked if there is an alternative movie you could watch- so many movies now are remakes anyway.

Frustrating that it would cost you time and money to have to watch a movie, especially if you have no desire to see it yourself. If my kid was right on the cusp between grades and it was a movie that I personally felt was ok for him to see then I would take him to it. The cost of the tickets would probably come out of his allowance since it was a benefit for him.

[runewell]

Hopefully it's The King's Speech - something that didn't deserve an R rating to begin with.

[isabella]

sheila and runewell, I modified my original post to include the chosen movie.
I have no problem with the R rating, my son is about a year away from seeing R rated movies on his own. I'm not one to try and censor everything he watches as long as it is in the range of age appropriate material.

drama as far as improving his grade, not sure. Currently runs 93-95 in the class so more than likely will be pushing him over a 100% and buys insurance so to speak if he messes up an assignment between now and when the quarter ends.


eta... I actually think the movie could open up some interesting discussion between my son and I. Before seeing it's hard to say.

[hoops902]

"I don't have an issue with the rating- that's for a parent to figure out if they want their kid to watch it or not"

I think I have a small problem with the idea of giving extra credit out to kids who's parents allow them to watch certain adult content but not to kids who's parents think it's inappropriate for their child. Particularly when the movie has a rating so that some/most of the kids are not even allowed to see it alone. (as opposed to say a parent who thought a PG-13 movie was inappropriate, since the case could be made that soem parent will always think something is inappropriate for their kid).

I also have a problem with saying "hey if your family has an extra $20 to spend you can get a boost to your grade" without allowing an equivalent free option. Equivalent in terms of the same amount of EC available, obviously the option which costs will likely be more "fun".

[floridayankee]

Feb 18, 2011 10:27:53 GMT -5 @isabella said:

drama as far as improving his grade, not sure. Currently runs 93-95 in the class so more than likely will be pushing him over a 100% and buys insurance so to speak if he messes up an assignment between now and when the quarter ends.


eta... I actually think the movie could open up some interesting discussion between my son and I. Before seeing it's hard to say.

Even with good grades like that, if it's something he wants to do, I'd pony up the money. It's still not "buying grades" because he's still need to do the work involved in writing the report before receiving any extra credit. IMHO, it's no different than any other school expenses for a child.

[Firebird]

Feb 18, 2011 10:34:55 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

"I don't have an issue with the rating- that's for a parent to figure out if they want their kid to watch it or not"

I think I have a small problem with the idea of giving extra credit out to kids who's parents allow them to watch certain adult content but not to kids who's parents think it's inappropriate for their child. Particularly when the movie has a rating so that some/most of the kids are not even allowed to see it alone. (as opposed to say a parent who thought a PG-13 movie was inappropriate, since the case could be made that soem parent will always think something is inappropriate for their kid).

I also have a problem with saying "hey if your family has an extra $20 to spend you can get a boost to your grade" without allowing an equivalent free option. Equivalent in terms of the same amount of EC available, obviously the option which costs will likely be more "fun".

Gave you karma for this post, since you said exactly what I was thinking. It's kinda messed up for teachers to give extra credit opportunities with an ethical and financial component, because if there's a kid who needs the extra credit to pass the class and can't go because of family rules and/or financial tightness, they don't get that opportunity.

I would be fine with this if the teacher allowed them to see an alternate movie that wasn't rated R that they could get from Redbox, in case the R rating or the extra cash was a problem.

[crockpottin]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the assignment, assuming that it's truly extra credit (as in, if you don't do it there's no penalty). Obviously it would be wrong to require this sort of thing due to the financial impact/family values that previous posters have mentioned.

As for a kid needing extra credit to pass, if that's the case then that means there's probably a whole list of thing the kid could do to improve his grade-things like doing/handing in homework, studying for tests, not sleeping/screwing around during class time. All of those things will raise grades, and none cost money.

[Deleted]

I just found out the other day from my neighbor that her high school teacher used to REQUIRE them to watch Bill O-Reily as part of their graded assignments... blech... I would have had someone's privates in a gripper...

Teachers can recommend if they like... they can schedule a field trip if they think its very important... but i don't think this type of thing should happen. What about the poorer children who don't have the money or the parental support to prop up their grade? ... go ahead and give a list of possible movies and say you can do a review on one of them for extra credit... make it a mix of old and new and different viewpoints... ok.. but requiring or compensating a specific ideology, or product... nope...

[whoisjohngalt]

I would actually ask the teacher what made her choose this particular movie and is she aware of the ratings. I would be more interested in that. Who is to say that her next assignment is not going to be on effects of alcohol and she will want students to get drunk and write about it. May be a bit extreme, but I hope you get my point.

To answer your original question: You are not exactly paying for grades. I don't like the idea of paying for grades, but you are really just paying for outing with your kid.

Lena

[Firebird]

As for a kid needing extra credit to pass, if that's the case then that means there's probably a whole list of thing the kid could do to improve his grade-things like doing/handing in homework, studying for tests, not sleeping/screwing around during class time. All of those things will raise grades, and none cost money.

I couldn't agree more - but it's a little unfair to give one lazy kid the opportunity to skip all that and get a passing grade by seeing a movie, while denying that same opportunity to another lazy kid.

Ideally, kids would just not be lazy and then the issue of extra credit would never be an earthshattering one. But that's not the case, and therefore extra credit should always be equal-opportunity.

[isabella]

oped after asking a few friends/relatives if they had seen this movie a couple had. So I did ask an opinion of the movie and a general idea of its content. One particular relative aligns them self with the Democratic Party and the first thing he did was to start Bush bashing. I'll reserve comment until later today when we actually see the movie. The one thing is, if I do find it to be a Bush bashing fest movie it will give me opportunity to talk to dear son about the propaganda that left tries to put out there on a consistent basis.

I'm reasonably sure the teacher assigned this movie for extra credit to be thought provoking, lively debate among students who do go to watch it. Watching the movie and writing a report is strictly for extra credit points and at this time no alternative was given for those who did not want to participate.

Knowing that this movie is rated R I did tell my son it was ok to invite classmates to go to the movie with us, I acting as a chaperon, but would need a parent to call me giving permission to accompany their child. We have had no takers so far and we are about an hour and a half away from showtime. The students have today off from school for in service meeting as well Monday for the President's Day holiday.

[Deleted]

Let us know what you think. Thanks.

[crockpottin]

Isabella, enjoy the film! Let us know if it's worth heading out to the movies to see

Firebird, I do get your point that extra credit should be equal opportunity. We don't really know the socioeconomic situation of the OP's school, it may be that the demographics of the school are such that the teacher believed that the price of two movie tickets wouldn't be a burden on anyone in the class, and thus it was an equal opportunity. I myself teach at such a school (we're at the beginning of a vacation, before anyone gets upset about a teacher posting mid-day!), so this may be why I didn't really consider the tickets to be such an issue. If that's not the case with the OP's school, then I agree with you and there should be a less costly option for extra credit as well.

Somewhat OT-but as a teacher, I can tell you that 95% of the time I give an extra credit opportunity, the only kids who actually do it are the ones who already have an A, so the lazy kid thing is less of an issue than you might suspect.

[hoops902]

Crock-

So as a teacher how do you feel about giving extra credit for an activity that would generally be prohibited from happening at the school? In this case a rated R movie that the kids are not old enough to see alone.

I'll leave it there, I think there's another argument to be made similarly for activities that parents might find inappropriate, but they could find school activities inappropriate as well (like killing a frog in anatomy).

Something just strikes me as "off" about giving kids extra credit for doing something outside of school that wouldn't be allowed within the school. Not like "fire the teacher" off, just seems borderline inappropriate. Or maybe other schools regularly show rated R movies, around here that's a no-no.

[crockpottin]

We are talking about a high school student, right? If so, R rated movies are not necessarily off limits, assuming there's educational merit to them (as is true with any movie shown in school, ideally). Most juniors and seniors are old enough to see R movies on their own, so the rating wouldn't matter for them. I can see how it might be a problem for younger high schoolers (like freshmen), but each school has it's own policy on that. In my school, younger students can be shown R movies with parent's permission. If the teacher in the OP is assigning this at all, I would guess that a similar system is in place there.

[Firebird]

Somewhat OT-but as a teacher, I can tell you that 95% of the time I give an extra credit opportunity, the only kids who actually do it are the ones who already have an A, so the lazy kid thing is less of an issue than you might suspect.

Oh, I agree that in the actual real world, very few lazy kids do the extra credit unless their parents make them. I almost always did extra credit, and I was an A-B student from the word go.

But in the theory world, especially in public school where everything's supposed to be "fair" and "equal," you shouldn't give some students opportunities that are not extended to others. And by the way, I think equal opportunity in general is pretty much bullshit-- the only reason I say this is because we're talking about public school and that's their supposed ethos.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

The problem with limiting extra credit to only things that are free or that can be done with no inconvenience to parents/students is that it can limit the students' exposure to worthwhile educational activities as well as letting good opportunities pass by. I remember when I was in 8th grade, we were studying american history. We could get extra credit by going to a reenactment fair. It did cost $ to get into the fair (I think it was $8/person?) and the fair was ~25 miles away so you would need mom/dad to take you. Was it unfair that it cost money and you had to have parent support to go? I don't think so. The alternative was to not offer the extra credit (in which case most people wouldn't go to the fair and would miss out) or wait until the fair was free and came to our city (which wasn't going to happen). I ended up being the only one in the class that went (and our family was one of the poorer families in the class) and it was a great experience. Should the teacher have made it "fair" for everyone? Maybe but that would have seriously reduced the educational experience.

[hoops902]

"The alternative was to not offer the extra credit (in which case most people wouldn't go to the fair and would miss out) or wait until the fair was free and came to our city (which wasn't going to happen). "

So the alternative was that most people wouldn't go, and most people still didn't go anyways. lol.

"Maybe but that would have seriously reduced the educational experience. "

For who? You were the only one who even went? Would your parents have taken you if it wasn't extra credit?

I, for one, don't mind offering those kinds of opportunities, but if you do, I think you should offer the same EC points in other ways for children who can't take advantage of the paying/driving opportunities. Let them write a report or something extra. The stuff you pay to go do is almost always more fun and less work.

Look at it this way, you were one of the poorer families right? Would you have thought it fair if you and another girl had 89% B+'s and the teacher offered 1% extra credit for anyone who went out and bought a specific $500 Renaissance costume and wore it to school while offering everyone else nothing?

I understand you think the re-enactment fair was ok, because you were able to go. Is it fair to the kid with the same grade as you who desperately wants to get the extra credit but can't because mom and dad during that time and his older brother has to watch him but can't drive? It's a slippery slope to essentially tell someone "if you're willing to spend $X you can have a better grade". Particularly when the only requirement is attendance (whether that's true for the fair you attended I don't know, but i've seen the same thing offered before where attendance in any form is good for credit)

[isabella]

OK, OP here and back from the movie theater.
The teacher picked a winner IMO ... the students who make the choice to watch the movie and write a report for extra credit I believe will benefit from the experience. I hadn't asked my son what the paper was to be about until we were in the car driving to the movie. It is to be three pages-double spaced about The American Dream and social classes.
The area the school is located is solid middle class on up to affluent, I cannot think of a family off the top of my head where paying for the movie tickets would have created a financial hardship to the household budget (of course I could be wrong on that too). The other thing I didn't realize there were early matinee prices at $6.50 a ticket, when I called I was quoted the evening prices. lol, there was no way my teen was going to be caught at the movies on a Friday night with mom!!!!
The relative that put a political spin on the movie was really, really stretching it as far as I am concerned.
My son welcomed the opportunity to pick up extra credit for the class and felt the experience was worth it, will be easy to complete.
eta ... I'm still a bit undecided as far as paying for an activity to get extra credit.

[Deleted]

I'll put it in my queue, thanks.
I agree that the money shouldn't be a hardship. I always worked with poor kids though, and i guess i'm just sensitive to the idea, and would prefer options were offered. I had high school special ed kids, who when i took a field trip to the movie theater, had never been before... and kids in elementary/middle school who had difficulty conceptualizaing capitals, and states and countries, given that they had never been outside of a 40 mile radius. Its surprising some times, other people's normal....
I'm glad you had a good afternoon out with son. Mine's not so old, but i'm seeing how that will undoubtedly get more rare as time goes on...

[DVM gone riding]

personally I would object to extra credit that a) involved going to a movie theater b) was R rated-teachers shouldn't be rec things their students can't legally watch on their own.

[isabella]

Thank you oped! DS and I did have a good time and a great conversation. One thing about the movie is that there was a lot of salty language, so may want to preview if that is a problem. It's definitely an adult movie that deserved a R rating. I'm guessing the teacher took many factors into consideration when offering this as extra credit and if it fit with the current studies.
How old are your children?

dvm07 most of the students are old enough to go to a R rated movie without an adult, mine is one of the youngest in the grade. The age is 17 to see an R rated movie without an adult in our area.

[Deleted]

Oh i do preveiw most R rated stuff at this point... son is 12.

Its funny, i don't sensor his reading much, (not that we keep a lot of erotic ficton on the shelves ) but video games/movies i still do ... i guess because when you read, the picture you paint yourself will be limited to your experience, but the graphic visions of other people can be a harder to make sense of without context... if that makes sense.

Most of the R rated stuff we have done is historical... Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, etc.

[stats45]

I think the rated 'R' element is a bit complicated, but I don't think teachers should lose a lot of sleep over what parents think is appropriate for their students to learn as long as the subject matter is within the mainstream of their discipline.

There are plenty of school districts where teachers have to submit to (or deal with) parents' demands about not wanting to read 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'The Giver'. Honestly, with over 40% of US adults not reading a single book in a year, I could care less that a parent doesn't like that a curse word appears in a book. I'll take students who had their minds challenged in high school over busy-body parents anyday.

Rant over.