Another Senseless Killing

[Deleted]

From the SF Chronicle: www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Friends-question-killing-of-boy-who-had-fake-rifle-4920174.php

After the Sparks NV shooting and the recent school shootings, why would anyone think that making a toy assault rifle is a good thing?

I realize the toy wasn't his and that 13 year olds don't have the best judgment.  But given what's gone on recently I can't blame the deputy involved.

So tragic.


ETA: Sum Dum Gai, I know you have enough going on in your life but promise me you won't sell these awful things.

[The Captain]

I agree it is sad and tragic.  Don't know what the answers are.  Just waiting for someone to jump in and start hating on the police who have to make judgement calls in these very difficult times.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2013 10:50:51 GMT -5 The Captain said:

I agree it is sad and tragic.  Don't know what the answers are.  Just waiting for someone to jump in and start hating on the police who have to make judgement calls in these very difficult times.

There are plenty of hate comments at the end of the article.

[Tennesseer]

We had the same type incident several years ago.  It was dark out, someone had called in suspicious activity around an elementary school.  The 13-year-old came around a corner of the school building thinking his friend was there and pointed the toy assault-type looking weapon at who he thought was his friend.  Unfortunately, it was a police officer he pointed the toy weapon at.  The officer shot and killed the boy.

The investigation determined the officer was not at fault and based upon what I knew of the case, he should not have been found at fault too.

[Sam_2.0]

There's a reason why toy guns are supposed to have the bright orange caps on them. This is such a sad story  Knowing  several LEOs, I know that officer will never be the same. Neither will the kid's family. Completely tragic all the way around

[Sum Dum Gai]

The worst part about this whole thing is that California has a law against selling realistic looking toy weapons for this very reason, guess which company got a waiver?  Can you say Airsoft?  I thought so.

The only toy guns we sell are bamboo pop guns with a cork, bright blue plastic guns that shoot foam balls, and wooden rubber band pistols and rifles.  They're unfinished wood and have bright orange tips.  Nothing you could mistake for a real gun.

[Deleted]

Wow, Sum Dum Gai, I hope this senseless tragedy leads to discontinuing the Airsoft exception.

[Sum Dum Gai]

It wasn't an exception.  They got the law changed as it was being written so instead of making it illegal to produce realistic looking shiny toy guns, which was the original proposal, they lobbied and got it changed so that all they need is an orange plastic ring at the tip.  However, it can be painted over or removed.  They're also not allowed to be sold to anyone under 18, but since parents buy them and give them to their kids it doesn't really make any difference.

I don't fundamentally have a problem with toy guns, but I'd never buy my kids Airsoft guns.  I get that it's a fun hobby and all, but kids walking around with totally realistic reproductions of specific makes of lethal firearms is a horrible idea.

I accidentally called the police on my neighbor over an Airsoft gun a little while back.  It's the house on the opposite corner from us which has a couple families living in it and at least one of the couples likes to get drunk as hell on the weekend and scream at each other at the top of their lungs.  There was a youngish guy, maybe twenties, hanging around out front gesturing with a 9mm, while a woman inside screamed and cursed at him loud enough to be heard inside my house.  I called the police like anyone would.  Turns out she wasn't even yelling at the younger guy, it was some guy inside, and the kid was screwing around with an Airsoft pistol.  From a distance you can't tell the difference between the toy and a real gun at all.

[Phoenix84]

When/if I ever have kids, I'll never let them have realistic looking toy guns.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I saw this on MSN last night. I think police were put into an untenable position and didn't have any other option. According to what I read, the officer told the child to drop the weapon and he didn't. Officer didn't know it wasn't real.

It's sad, but with what's happened in the news the last few days, I imagine a lot of officers are a bit jumpy.

[Phoenix84]

Supposedly the officers told the kid twice to drop the gun, and he didn't.  I won't hate on the police for this one.  It's unfortunate that it happened though. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

Crap... I just realized Loop is going to see this.  I'm about to reorder rubber band guns, and I wanted to get some cool ones, they make an AR-15, Tommy Gun, Desert Eagle, etc.  I think they're cool, but Loop has hated the idea since we ordered the first batch, and made me get lame ones like the 1873 Winchester Rifle and Colt Peacemaker pistol.  They don't realistic in any way, the wood cutout is just the same silhouette as the real gun.

[The Captain]

Can they be painted to look like the "real" guns?

Cause you know some idiot will...

[Sum Dum Gai]

Uhh... not really.

We sell this one:


and this one:

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The more that I think about this, the more that I realize that cops are really between a rock and a hard place, particularly with regards to weapons being in the hands of children.

There was recently a report of a little girl that had gotten tazered because she had a knife on her and was threatening to cut herself with it. Now you've got an officer shooting a child because the child was carrying a gun that looked real enough AND the child refused to drop it.

It's bad enough trying to figure out if adults are going to harm you, but now you've got to assume that children are in on the act too? OUCH!

[cronewitch]

Some blame has to go to parents who don't instruct children to obey orders. Some have a deviant culture and teach the children they have rights, nobody can tell them what to do. The could might have been thinking of saying you can't make me or been afraid the gun would get damaged if dropped. He probably didn't know police with guns should be obeyed first and only talked back to when your attorney advices it.

We had police breaking up a fight between girls and the watching girls refused to get back when ordered. They said in their culture you defend your friends not allowing the police to order them around. The police needed diversity training to understand some people have more rights than others based on ethnic culture.

A drunk was shot by police for walking holding his knife, he may not have understood when told drop the knife when he had done nothing wrong but died for not obeying quickly enough. Police expect instant obedience even when you have done nothing wrong if you are deaf you might not even know what they want you to do.

[The Captain]

Oct 25, 2013 16:09:34 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

Some blame has to go to parents who don't instruct children to obey orders. Some have a deviant culture and teach the children they have rights, nobody can tell them what to do. The could might have been thinking of saying you can't make me or been afraid the gun would get damaged if dropped. He probably didn't know police with guns should be obeyed first and only talked back to when your attorney advices it.

We had police breaking up a fight between girls and the watching girls refused to get back when ordered. They said in their culture you defend your friends not allowing the police to order them around. The police needed diversity training to understand some people have more rights than others based on ethnic culture.

A drunk was shot by police for walking holding his knife, he may not have understood when told drop the knife when he had done nothing wrong but died for not obeying quickly enough. Police expect instant obedience even when you have done nothing wrong if you are deaf you might not even know what they want you to do.

Sorry no, at least in the culture that I grew up in you respected police.  I think allowing children to claim the right to disregard authority due to cultural differences is malarky. 

The watching girls didn't seem to inclined to break up the fight themselves to protect their friends, now did they?

IMO we have to have a uniform set of standards which apply equally to everyone, otherwise how in the heck will the police be able to keep order (since people can't seem to govern themselves)?

[Sum Dum Gai]

I'd think that even a deaf person would know to drop any weapons they're carrying when confronted by police pointing weapons at them.

Seems pretty common sense. Kids with realistic looking toy weapons are in danger because they're kids and don't have common sense.

[NastyWoman]

I saw this on the news and they interviewed a neighbor who claims he had warned the kid just minutes before the cops showed up to put the gun away because it would cause trouble if cops would see it (remember this was before the cops came around).  Kid gave some lip and ignored the neighbor.  

Just goes to prove/reenforce  that even if an adult tries to protect a 13yo they don't listen.  And the really sad part is that there are so many teens with real guns we can't expect the cops to risk their own lives based on the assumption  of "hey it's just a kid, no biggie..."

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2013 19:42:51 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I saw this on the news and they interviewed a neighbor who claims he had warned the kid just minutes before the cops showed up to put the gun away because it would cause trouble if cops would see it (remember this was before the cops came around).  Kid gave some lip and ignored the neighbor.  

Just goes to prove/reenforce  that even if an adult tries to protect a 13yo they don't listen.  And the really sad part is that there are so many teens with real guns we can't expect the cops to risk their own lives based on the assumption  of "hey it's just a kid, no biggie..."

Wow, if that's true it's all the more tragic.