Kennedy relative gets new trial...

[The Captain]

apparently because the he did not get effective representation the first time.

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/24/21116354-michael-skakel-to-make-bid-for-freedom-after-getting-new-trial-in-moxley-murder?lite

"In his ruling on Wednesday, Superior Court Judge Thomas Bishop agreed with Skakel that his lawyer did not put on a robust defense, faulting him most critically for not focusing more attention on Thomas Skakel and his admission that he had a sexual encounter with Moxley the night she was killed.

"Trial counsel's failures in each of these areas of representation were significant and, ultimately, fatal to a constitutionally adequate defense," Bishop wrote.

"As a consequence of trial counsel's failures as stated, the state procured a judgment of conviction that lacks reliability.""

Is there nothing that money can't buy in this country?  It sounds to me like the judge was really reaching to find a reason to overturn the conviction.

[workpublic]

it hardly ever is overturned in these situations.

imho one of the brothers did it. but with kennedy money and influence behind them, the care taker better run and hide.

[happyhoix]

Michael Skakel confessed the murder to a fellow student at the expensive private school he got sent to. Then he bragged to someone else that he would get away with murder because he was a Kennedy. Maybe there isn't a lot of forensic evidence, but those two statements are pretty damning.

Wonderful what a lot of money can buy.

[The Captain]

My point exactly.

[Malarky]

Unrelated really, but the Kennedy's always remind me of my first husband. 

A couple of years after we got divorced, a current girlfriend of his called me to ask about my "annulment."  Um, so sorry...we aren't Kennedy's.  We don't get to pretend it  didn't happen.

[sesfw]

Another Kennedy getting away with a killing.

If the funds are available anything can be purchased. 

[mmhmm]

I'm going to move this to Current Events as it's not related to politics or the markets. - mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Malarky]

Money aside, I wondered if they proved guilt during the first trial,  

[Tennesseer]

Oct 24, 2013 19:17:39 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Another Kennedy getting away with a killing.

If the funds are available anything can be purchased. 

No Kennedy blood in the guy.

[EVT1]

Oct 24, 2013 13:02:47 GMT -5 The Captain said:

apparently because the he did not get effective representation the first time.

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/24/21116354-michael-skakel-to-make-bid-for-freedom-after-getting-new-trial-in-moxley-murder?lite

"In his ruling on Wednesday, Superior Court Judge Thomas Bishop agreed with Skakel that his lawyer did not put on a robust defense, faulting him most critically for not focusing more attention on Thomas Skakel and his admission that he had a sexual encounter with Moxley the night she was killed.

"Trial counsel's failures in each of these areas of representation were significant and, ultimately, fatal to a constitutionally adequate defense," Bishop wrote.

"As a consequence of trial counsel's failures as stated, the state procured a judgment of conviction that lacks reliability.""

Is there nothing that money can't buy in this country?  It sounds to me like the judge was really reaching to find a reason to overturn the conviction.

Riiiight- because wealthy people with connections have no ability to get good lawyers   Meanwhile just about every poor person that had a public defender will lose their appeals over inadequate counsel regardless of the fact those people are underpaid, overworked and cannot possibly give a defense that a private lawyer can.

I can cite cases where PD's slept in court and made other mistakes- and the answer is always that you are entitled to a defense- not a perfect defense- unless of course you are rich- then you get the best defense, and if it fails, you attack it and get another shot anyway.  Everything has a price in this country.

Reminds me of an old joke at the shop- "would you suck a d$#* for $100, $1000, 10K, 100K?  A million?"- and at some point the sale- "well (hands out bill) give me $10 worth"

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2013 19:17:39 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Another Kennedy getting away with a killing.

If the funds are available anything can be purchased. 

 Lest we forget... two Kennedy were murdered while in Public Service. One while President (JFK), the other while a senator seeking the presidency(RFK).
 RFK's wife's brother had a son who was ultimately convicted of murdering a neighbor when he was 15 years old in 1975.

 Yeah, let's pile on the Kennedy family... while we still can. Before they're all dead.
 Low-hanging fruit and all that.

[EVT1]

Oct 24, 2013 20:14:07 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

Oct 24, 2013 19:17:39 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Another Kennedy getting away with a killing.

If the funds are available anything can be purchased. 

 Lest we forget... two Kennedy were murdered while in Public Service. One while President (JFK), the other while a senator seeking the presidency(RFK).
 RFK's wife's brother had a son who was ultimately convicted of murdering a neighbor when he was 15 years old in 1975.

 Yeah, let's pile on the Kennedy family... while we still can. Before they're all dead.
 Low-hanging fruit and all that.

I get where you are coming from- but I think this is about wealth and privilege.  Of course someone could make it political......

[EVT1]

But to revisit- that family sacrificed a hell of a lot.  What I would like to see acknowledged is this recent group of teachers (as the GOP calls them- overpaid government takers) that gave their lives to protect students. Doubt a single one of these  whiners would stand up and take a bullet.

[The Captain]

Oct 24, 2013 20:14:07 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

Oct 24, 2013 19:17:39 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Another Kennedy getting away with a killing.

If the funds are available anything can be purchased. 

 Lest we forget... two Kennedy were murdered while in Public Service. One while President (JFK), the other while a senator seeking the presidency(RFK).
 RFK's wife's brother had a son who was ultimately convicted of murdering a neighbor when he was 15 years old in 1975.

 Yeah, let's pile on the Kennedy family... while we still can. Before they're all dead.
 Low-hanging fruit and all that.

I have one great uncle who was killed in WWII and another who was killed in the Korean conflict in service to their country.  Does that mean I get a buy if I go out and kill a few people?  Oh yea, that's right - I'm not from money so the answer would be a big fat no.

I have a huge problem with people who use their wealth and political power to shield themselves from the law.  I'm kinda surprise you're ok with it.

[EVT1]

I don't think anyone is OK with that-and PT isn't OK with it either as far as I can tell. 

[Deleted]

 I'm not granting the Kennedys any Free Ride. I don't put any of them on a pedestal. 
 But over the years I have watched hateful people enthusiastically revelling in the demonization of any and all things Kennedy... and it just is sickening to see. It doesn't actually harm the Kennedys much (how could it- most of the targets of their hatred are already deceased), but the display of mean-spiritedness is disturbing. It's akin to seeing Klansmen burning a cross. Ick.

 As for Michael Skakel re: the Kennedy family... he doesn't have a single drop of Kennedy blood in his entire body, does he?

[mtman]

Oct 24, 2013 21:40:19 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

 

 As for Michael Skakel re: the Kennedy family... he doesn't have a single drop of Kennedy blood in his entire body

True......But he does have the stink of Kennedy money all over him.

[Deleted]

That's your imagination.
 The Skakel family has their own money.
 From the Stamford Advocate's obituary for Rushton Skakel, father of accused murderer Michael Skakel:
 marthamoxley.com/news/010403gt.htm
link
 
 

Rushton Skakel was one of seven children born to George and Ann Skakel. His sister, Ethel, married the late Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in 1950, forging an alliance between one of the wealthiest families in the country and one of the most politically powerful.

Rushton Skakel took over the family business, Great Lakes Carbon, in the mid-1960s, after the deaths of his parents and brother, George Skakel Jr., in separate plane crashes.

The company, which manufactured carbon coke, was once one of the largest private companies in the country, and was the source of the family's enormous wealth, according to published accounts.

  Michael Skakel's uncle, Ted Kennedy, had influence and connections that may have impacted Skakel in a positive way, but the Skakels didn't need any Kennedy money.
 EVER.

[The Captain]

Isn't this the same guy who bragged that he would get away with murder specifically because he was connected to the Kennedy's at about the same time he was talking about smashing in her skull?

Oh yea - here it is:

www.marthamoxley.com/transcripts/skakel1.pdf

05 A The first night that I was assigned to watch Mr.
06 Skakel, it was obvious that he was given special
07 privileges. At this time, I didn't know why.
08 Q What were the special privileges?
09 A He got to be guarded in the presence of a stereo,
10 of his records and any other amenities that he seemed to
11 want. And I came upon a point where I said -- I made the
12 comment that this guy can get away with murder.
13 Q And --
14 A At which point he in turn said to me, I am going
15 to get away with murder, I am a Kennedy.
16 Q What if anything -- did he explain to you why he
17 was at Elan?
18 A That was my first thought with Mr. Skakel.
19 Q And, what did he say?
20 A Subsequent to making that comment, now thinking
21 back, we were sitting up listening to records. We were
22 allowed to do that too while he was being guarded. We got
23 talking and he made a comment that he was going to get away
24 with murder, he had drove the -- I want to get this the
25 right way, as close as I can get it to what I remember.
26 Q Did he describe to you his involvement in the
27 murder of this young person?
00170
01 A The comment that sticks out in my mind was that he
02 said he drove her skull in, he drove her skull in which I
03 took as with a golf club, with a driver, specifically.


He was counting on the political connections just as much as he counted on the wealth.  He continued to be favored by the Kennedy family for the rest of his life (apparently a stint in the speed skating circut qualifies you to be a director of international programs for your cousin - another Kennedy - but hey don't tell me the Kennedy's don't take care of their own).

BTW - I bash on any group who uses their positions of influence to shield relatives/favored associates from the consequences of their crimes.  Kennedy, Daley, it's all equal in my book.  

If he was poor, or not politically connected, he would not be getting a new trial.

[billisonboard]

www.macon.com/2013/10/24/2736522/new-trial-granted-in-2001-macon.html

[The Captain]

Oct 25, 2013 9:37:07 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

www.macon.com/2013/10/24/2736522/new-trial-granted-in-2001-macon.html

Not even comparable.  In the above case there are witness recants and evidence of police tampering.  In the Kennedy case the argument is that the defense was not adequate.

Not even close.

[sesfw]

I bash on any group who uses their positions of influence to shield relatives/favored associates from the consequences of their crimes. Kennedy, Daley, it's all equal in my book.

[workpublic]

and the kennedy "clan"(et al) seem to have a high percentage of moral deviants.

their foibles are death and rape related most of the time, with some cheating and drunk driving sprinkled in.

[zibazinski]

Money talks, criminals walk. Uncle Teddy the same way.

[Deleted]

If he was poor, or not politically connected, he would not be getting a new trial.

 If Skakel had been poor, or not politically connected, and the victim was as non-privileged as well... in 1975... the convicted 15-year-old would probably have been sent to a state-run psychiatric facility for disturbed adolescents. If he survived there for a couple of years, without further incidence of violence, then he would have been transferred to a mid-level security hospital where they would continue to monitor him. Barring any further violent incidents, he would have been released into a "half-way house" facility when the state of Connecticut closed down several of their state-run psychiatric facilities over the following decades ("de-Institutionalization"), and would probably have been "re-integrated" into the population years ago.

[mtman]

Oct 25, 2013 14:18:41 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Money talks, criminals walk. Uncle Teddy the same way.

It always amazed me that Teddy got a pass on the drowning(?) of Mary Jo Kopechne.....But you're correct.....Money talks.

[The Captain]

Oct 25, 2013 15:07:22 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

If he was poor, or not politically connected, he would not be getting a new trial.

 If Skakel had been poor, or not politically connected, and the victim was as non-privileged as well... in 1975... the convicted 15-year-old would probably have been sent to a state-run psychiatric facility for disturbed adolescents. If he survived there for a couple of years, without further incidence of violence, then he would have been transferred to a mid-level security hospital where they would continue to monitor him. Barring any further violent incidents, he would have been released into a "half-way house" facility when the state of Connecticut closed down several of their state-run psychiatric facilities over the following decades ("de-Institutionalization"), and would probably have been "re-integrated" into the population years ago.

Just curious,

1.  Trying to ignore hindsight and assuming we only knew what the facts of the time do you think the above would have been an appropriate response.
2.  Now, with full knowledge and hindsight what do you think the appropriate response should be?

[Deleted]

 His father's sister married a Kennedy. 
 Apparently that is the REAL crime... how perverse.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 25, 2013 15:40:33 GMT -5 mtman said:

Oct 25, 2013 14:18:41 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Money talks, criminals walk. Uncle Teddy the same way.

It always amazed me that Teddy got a pass on the drowning(?) of Mary Jo Kopechne.....But you're correct.....Money talks.

Hey-it always amazed me that white supremacist Byron De La Beckwith got a pass, twice, from two Mississippi juries consisting of only white men for the murder of Medgar Evers.  It took 31 years to finally convict the bastard.  And he was only convicted in 1994 because he bragged to others in later years of killing Evers. 

[EVT1]

Oct 25, 2013 17:24:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 25, 2013 15:40:33 GMT -5 mtman said:

It always amazed me that Teddy got a pass on the drowning(?) of Mary Jo Kopechne.....But you're correct.....Money talks.

Hey-it always amazed me that white supremacist Byron De La Beckwith got a pass, twice, from two Mississippi juries consisting of only white men for the murder of Medgar Evers.  It took 31 years to finally convict the bastard.  And he was only convicted in 1994 because he bragged to others in later years of killing Evers. 

The one thing worse than someone getting away with a crime because they are rich is getting away with it because the jury is racist. 

Too bad both situations still occur in our system.