AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 13, 2013 20:54:40 GMT -5
dj and anyone from new york out of the new enrollees for health care in your states how many have signed up to paid healthcare through insurance companies versus how many have been added to the states medicaid rolls? what % for each and based on that information, does it scare you budget wise that the state will be picking up a considerable amount of the expenses as time goes by? dj doesn't care how many trillions of dollars we borrow- because no matter what the facts are, dj will claim Reagan spent more. It's not true, of course, but dj will give you all kinds of debt / GDP raito bs (never mentioning Reagan's real, permanent budget cuts, or Reagan's economic growth).
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Dec 13, 2013 21:02:02 GMT -5
"WASHINGTON — President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don't stand to gain from the extra care.
In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don't unthinkingly approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."
He added: "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."
Obama said he has personal familiarity with such a dilemma. His grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given less than nine months to live, he said.
She fell and broke her hip, "and the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was fragile enough they were not sure how long she would last?" Rather than give the correct answer which is, "Government has absolutely no role in the allocation of healthcare resources", Obama failed the test and acted as Death Panel Chairman"
Paul, you can say it 4 thousand more times, and fill page after page on this forum and it's not going to make your spin have any truth to it. The insurance companies have been deciding for YEARS who gets life extending treatment and who does not, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are no government "death panels" no matter how badly you want them to exist to attempt to prove your point. The government is not rationing healthcare, the healthcare system itself has always rationed care to a degree. Healthcare is rationed from the bottom up at every level of the industry from the triage nurse in the emergency room to new drug trials for cures of terminal illnesses. You appear to have little to no understanding of the system or the ACA, basic healthcare or end of life care. You just come off as a raving lunatic.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 14, 2013 8:36:56 GMT -5
So what else in new? I seriously doubt any of these posters who are such Obama supporters really have jobs anyway. Sound more like those who have had things handed to them by the sweat of others labors and maybe getting some of taxpayer dollars anyway. How do we really know they actually work? Some of them pretend or imply to be one gender when they really are another. Then get all offended when someone calls them a man or a women when they really are the other. So cagey, so clever, it reeks of something sneaky and underhanded. So I'm totally doubting they work to begin with because someone who works hard to get by in this world isn't the kind who is willing to let others sit home and watch Jerry on their tax dollars.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 14, 2013 10:47:52 GMT -5
So what else in new? I seriously doubt any of these posters who are such Obama supporters really have jobs anyway. Sound more like those who have had things handed to them by the sweat of others labors and maybe getting some of taxpayer dollars anyway. How do we really know they actually work? Some of them pretend or imply to be one gender when they really are another. Then get all offended when someone calls them a man or a women when they really are the other. So cagey, so clever, it reeks of something sneaky and underhanded. So I'm totally doubting they work to begin with because someone who works hard to get by in this world isn't the kind who is willing to let others sit home and watch Jerry on their tax dollars. FFS. Most ignorant post of 2013. Congratulations!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 14, 2013 11:07:41 GMT -5
So what else in new? I seriously doubt any of these posters who are such Obama supporters really have jobs anyway. Sound more like those who have had things handed to them by the sweat of others labors and maybe getting some of taxpayer dollars anyway. How do we really know they actually work? Some of them pretend or imply to be one gender when they really are another. Then get all offended when someone calls them a man or a women when they really are the other. So cagey, so clever, it reeks of something sneaky and underhanded. So I'm totally doubting they work to begin with because someone who works hard to get by in this world isn't the kind who is willing to let others sit home and watch Jerry on their tax dollars. zibazinski, you really need to stop and consider that any of the accusations you made here can be turned right back on you. You know absolutely nothing about "these posters" ... negative or positive. How do we know what you actually do, or have, or what gender you are? You don't make yourself look more knowledgeable by posting like this. You've got more to offer.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 14, 2013 12:01:10 GMT -5
Is NBC "the Left" from your perspective, dj? If you go back a page or two you, will notice dj berated my posting that NBC news reported the lie. He maintained it was from politifact, and not NBC and NBC was just reporting the article. A couple of messages before yours that I am quoting, he was pleased to make the point I reported NBC as reporting it.
(I think he was being sarcastic)
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 14, 2013 13:49:45 GMT -5
So what else in new? I seriously doubt any of these posters who are such Obama supporters really have jobs anyway. Sound more like those who have had things handed to them by the sweat of others labors and maybe getting some of taxpayer dollars anyway. How do we really know they actually work? Some of them pretend or imply to be one gender when they really are another. Then get all offended when someone calls them a man or a women when they really are the other. So cagey, so clever, it reeks of something sneaky and underhanded. So I'm totally doubting they work to begin with because someone who works hard to get by in this world isn't the kind who is willing to let others sit home and watch Jerry on their tax dollars. zibazinski, you really need to stop and consider that any of the accusations you made here can be turned right back on you. You know absolutely nothing about "these posters" ... negative or positive. How do we know what you actually do, or have, or what gender you are? You don't make yourself look more knowledgeable by posting like this. You've got more to offer.Of the two bolded statements, one is undoubtedly true. The other is much more doubtful. I'll leave it to the reader to figure out which.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Dec 14, 2013 13:59:04 GMT -5
I'm risking my retirement money to start a business in California of all places, have you seen the hoops businesses have to jump through here? I work 70 hours a week, minimum. I still vote Dem.
Prior to this gig I worked for the Defense Security Service, and prior to that I was active duty military.
Under the previous Republican administration I was at risk of being sent to die in some third world shithole so Bush's cronies could make a little extra each quarter on oil contracts. Under the current administration I have to buy health insurance, which I carry anyway, and my taxes might go up a bit. If my choice is between higher taxes and possible death in a pointless war the choice is pretty easy.
Now me, I figure all the Obama detractors and people who support the tea party nutjobs have no imagination. If you elect people who honestly believe god speaks to them and they have a divine mandate to use the government to enforce their religious views on all of us you're asking for trouble. Read a history book sometime. Religious fanatics make terrible leaders. Always.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 14, 2013 14:06:55 GMT -5
Religion is (or can be) a wonderful way to govern one's individual behavior and life. It is a horrible way to set policy in a pluralistic society.
True, but the problem with religious fanatics is that they never see themselves as fanatics.
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flow5
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Post by flow5 on Dec 14, 2013 14:09:23 GMT -5
Obamacare will destroy private practice within c. 5 years. Take away the entrepreneurs that are working 70 + hours a week & replace them with 40 hour a week docs & you will see shortages, & price hikes.
You responsible, working and former working-retired folks will really be on board with this one.
What ObamaCare is Really About!
I'm a 54 year old consulting engineer and make between $60,000 and $125,000 per year, depending on how hard I work and whether or not there are work projects out there for me. My girlfriend is 61 and makes about $18,000 per year, working as a part-time mail clerk. For me, making $60,000 a year, under ObamaCare, the cheapest, lowest grade policy I can buy, which also happens to impose a $5,000 deductible, costs $482 per month. For my girlfriend, the same exact policy, same deductible, costs $1 per month. That's right, $1 per month . I'm not making this up. Don't believe me? Just go to www.coveredca.gov, the ObamaCare website for California and enter the parameters I've mentioned above and see for yourself. By the way, my zip code is 93940. You'll need to enter that. So OK, clearly ObamaCare is a scheme that involves putting the cost burden of healthcare onto the middle and upper-income wage earners. But there's a lot more to it. Stick with me. And before I make my next points, I'd like you to think about something: I live in Monterey County, in Central California. We have a large land mass but just 426,000 residents - about the population of Colorado Springs or the city of Omaha. But we do have a large Hispanic population, including a large number of illegal aliens, and to serve this group we have Natividad Medical Center, a massive, Federally subsidized county medical complex that takes up an area about one-third the size of the Chrysler Corporation automobile assembly plant in Belvedere, Illinois (see Google Earth View). Natividad has state-of-the-art operating rooms, Computed Tomography and Magnetic Resonance Imaging, fully equipped, 24 hour emergency room, and much more. If you have no insurance, if you've been in a drive-by shooting or have overdosed on crack cocaine, this is where you go. And it's essentially free, because almost everyone who ends up in the ER is uninsured. Last year, 2,735 babies were born at Natividad. 32% of these were born to out-of-wedlock teenage mothers, 93% of which were Hispanic. Less than 20% could demonstrate proof of citizenship, and 71% listed their native language as Spanish. Of these 876 births, only 40 were covered under [any kind of] private health insurance. The taxpayers paid for the other 836. And in case you were wondering about the entire population - all 2,735 births - less than 24% involved insured coverage or even partial payment on behalf of the patient to the hospital in exchange for services. Keep this in mind as we move forward. Now consider this: If I want to upgrade my policy to a low-deductible premium policy, such as what I had with my last employer, my cost is $886 per month. But my girlfriend can upgrade her policy to the very same level, for just $4 per month. That's right, $4 per month. $48 per year for a zero-deductible, premium healthcare policy - the kind of thing you get when you work at IBM (except of course, IBM employees pay an average of $170 per month out of pocket for their coverage). I mean, it's bad enough that I will be forced to subsidize the ObamaCare scheme in the first place. But even if I agreed with the basic scheme, which of course I do not, I would never agree to subsidize premium policies. If I have to pay $482 a month for a budget policy, I sure as hell do not want the guy I'm subsidizing to get a better policy, for less that 1% of what I have to fork out each month for a low-end policy. Why must I pay $482 per month for something the other guy gets for a dollar? And why should the other guy get to buy an $886 policy for $4 a month? Think about this: I have to pay $10,632 a year for the same thing that the other guy can get for $48. $10,000 of net income is 60 days of full time work as an engineer. $48 is something I could pay for collecting aluminum cans and plastic bottles, one day a month. Are you with me on this? Are you starting to get an idea what ObamaCare is really about? ObamaCare is not about dealing with inequities in the healthcare system. That's just the cover story. The real story is that it is a massive, political power grab. Do you think anyone who can insure himself with a premium policy for $4 a month will vote for anyone but the political party that provides him such a deal? ObamaCare is about enabling, subsidizing, and expanding the Left's political power base, at taxpayer expense. Why would I vote for anyone but a Democrat if I can have babies for $4 a month? For that matter, why would I go to college or strive for a better job or income if it means I have to pay real money for healthcare coverage? Heck, why study engineering when I can be a schlub for $20K per year and buy a new F-150 with all the money I'm saving? And think about those $4-a-month babies - think in terms of propagation models. Think of just how many babies will be born to irresponsible, under-educated mothers. Will we get a new crop of brain surgeons and particle physicists from the $4 dollar baby club, or will we need more cops, criminal courts and prisons? One thing you can be certain of: At $4 a month, they'll multiply, and multiply, and multiply. And not one of them will vote Republican. ObamaCare: It's all about political power.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Dec 14, 2013 14:16:35 GMT -5
Just look at the Middle East if you want an example of governments run by religious leaders.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Dec 14, 2013 17:13:59 GMT -5
So what else in new? I seriously doubt any of these posters who are such Obama supporters really have jobs anyway. Sound more like those who have had things handed to them by the sweat of others labors and maybe getting some of taxpayer dollars anyway. How do we really know they actually work? Some of them pretend or imply to be one gender when they really are another. Then get all offended when someone calls them a man or a women when they really are the other. So cagey, so clever, it reeks of something sneaky and underhanded. So I'm totally doubting they work to begin with because someone who works hard to get by in this world isn't the kind who is willing to let others sit home and watch Jerry on their tax dollars. It would appear you don't know the first thing about me, but your own words have told us more than we ever wanted to know about you.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 14, 2013 17:33:50 GMT -5
I'm homeless and post at the library when I am sober. Oh well, back to panhandling- Praise Obama.
Er- actually I am posting from my Obamaphone- parked outside the supermarket in my Escalade- going to go in and buy some steak and lobster when I get done here. Praise Obama.
Ok I admit it- I am George Zimmerman and I really like FL.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 15, 2013 14:11:52 GMT -5
dj and anyone from new york out of the new enrollees for health care in your states how many have signed up to paid healthcare through insurance companies versus how many have been added to the states medicaid rolls? what % for each and based on that information, does it scare you budget wise that the state will be picking up a considerable amount of the expenses as time goes by? dj doesn't care how many trillions of dollars we borrow- false. i have stated many times that i want to see surpluses in times of expansion. that means procuring adequate revenue during those times to pay down debt, not give tax cuts. we have to start behaving like grownups about our debt, not like petulant kids who think that it is all about them rather than the huge burden of immoral debt we are leaving to future generations. no matter how many times i say this, Paul will continue to mischaracterize my position. i am actually glad he is not reading my posts any more.because no matter what the facts are, dj will claim Reagan spent more. false. i have already stated that Obama is likely to bump Reagan out of second place for the most fiscally irresponsible administration in history, if he has not done so already.It's not true, of course, then why do you keep saying it?but dj will give you all kinds of debt / GDP raito bs (never mentioning Reagan's real, permanent budget cuts, or Reagan's economic growth). more bullshit. Reagan's spending as a % of GDP was about 21% when he took office. it rose to 24% of GDP by the middle of his first term. then it did INDEED decline to about 22%, a full % higher than when he took office. but don't take it from me, don't take it from Paul. look it up.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 15, 2013 14:14:27 GMT -5
So what else in new? I seriously doubt any of these posters who are such Obama supporters really have jobs anyway. i am not an Obama supporter. i am a Rand Paul supporter. criticizing the criticism of Obama is not the same thing as supporting him. but it is true, i don't have a real job. i have not had one in 20 years.Sound more like those who have had things handed to them by the sweat of others labors and maybe getting some of taxpayer dollars anyway. How do we really know they actually work? Some of them pretend or imply to be one gender when they really are another. Then get all offended when someone calls them a man or a women when they really are the other. i know of nobody here that does that. to whom do you refer?So cagey, so clever, it reeks of something sneaky and underhanded. So I'm totally doubting they work to begin with because someone who works hard to get by in this world isn't the kind who is willing to let others sit home and watch Jerry on their tax dollars. Jerry?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 15, 2013 14:17:00 GMT -5
Is NBC "the Left" from your perspective, dj? If you go back a page or two you, will notice dj berated my posting that NBC news reported the lie. He maintained it was from politifact, and not NBC and NBC was just reporting the article.
and what was factually wrong about that? i am not understanding your point, here.
A couple of messages before yours that I am quoting, he was pleased to make the point I reported NBC as reporting it.
(I think he was being sarcastic)
two different arguments. one is about liberal bias (which is not shown in this case). the other is about who the source of the material was.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 15, 2013 14:20:33 GMT -5
Obamacare will destroy private practice within c. 5 years. Take away the entrepreneurs that are working 70 + hours a week & replace them with 40 hour a week docs & you will see shortages, & price hikes. and your reasoning for this is.....................?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 15, 2013 14:35:53 GMT -5
Obamacare will destroy private practice within c. 5 years. Take away the entrepreneurs that are working 70 + hours a week & replace them with 40 hour a week docs & you will see shortages, & price hikes. and your reasoning for this is.....................? I reason otherwise. I'm seeing what I've expected to see for some time. Nurse Practitioners and Physician's Assistants are stepping up. They're prepared to do so and are being given the opportunity to do so. This is, indeed, going to make a big change. Most of the doctors I know have at least one, and usually more of these professionals in their practices. They're really making a difference by taking a lot of the load off the docs by shortening wait times, allowing more patients to be seen, evaluated and treated, and reducing costs. Patients are reacting very well to the change.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 15, 2013 14:53:39 GMT -5
and your reasoning for this is.....................? I reason otherwise. I'm seeing what I've expected to see for some time. Nurse Practitioners and Physician's Assistants are stepping up. They're prepared to do so and are being given the opportunity to do so. This is, indeed, going to make a big change. Most of the doctors I know have at least one, and usually more of these professionals in their practices. They're really making a difference by taking a lot of the load off the docs by shortening wait times, allowing more patients to be seen, evaluated and treated, and reducing costs. Patients are reacting very well to the change. another perspective to the one previously posted: i think that this will likely be the biggest boon in private practice in US history. it will also drive EMPLOYMENT, imo. this is a demand side problem, and it will have a supply solution. shortages will increase costs, which will drive doctors and nurses into the field and into higher income brackets, until the whole thing equilibrates in a few years.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 16, 2013 9:54:56 GMT -5
Back to "Death watch 2013"
Joe in the morning, today:
They have about 400,000 signed up Several million cut off from their insurance Need 7 million signed up by March
I think this is better than Abbott and Costello's old comic act of "Who's on first?"
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 16, 2013 12:12:26 GMT -5
This should help with the popularity of ObamaCare... If you like your checking account, you can keep your checking account(which of course means- look the hell out!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 14:50:43 GMT -5
I'm risking my retirement money to start a business in California of all places, have you seen the hoops businesses have to jump through here? I work 70 hours a week, minimum. I still vote Dem. Prior to this gig I worked for the Defense Security Service, and prior to that I was active duty military. Under the previous Republican administration I was at risk of being sent to die in some third world shithole so Bush's cronies could make a little extra each quarter on oil contracts. Under the current administration I have to buy health insurance, which I carry anyway, and my taxes might go up a bit. If my choice is between higher taxes and possible death in a pointless war the choice is pretty easy. Now me, I figure all the Obama detractors and people who support the tea party nutjobs have no imagination. If you elect people who honestly believe god speaks to them and they have a divine mandate to use the government to enforce their religious views on all of us you're asking for trouble. Read a history book sometime. Religious fanatics make terrible leaders. Always. thank you for your service..... but i think you are confusing the conservative right with the tea party a lot of tea party members have little or no religious cares......they are closer to libertarian in their views than the religious right (of course there are exceptions....Bachman being one) but they do care about that little piece of paper called the constitution.....and the freedom and liberty this country was founded upon you know....the one you swore to uphold when you joined the military or do you remember that far back? and there was no one holding a rifle to your head to sign up for the military.....it is a choice...... but once you make that decision, you go where your commander in chief tells you to go.....and your job is to put your ass on the line in certain cases...... part of the job.....that is why it isnt for everyone......
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Dec 16, 2013 15:22:22 GMT -5
Defending the constitution.. I spent my entire military career spying on US citizens in direct violation of the US constitution, but it was all good thanks to the Patriot Act and the scared sheeple of this country who couldn't deal with 9/11.
Every new project and program I worked on was a slap in the face to anyone who's ever read the constitution.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 16, 2013 16:07:13 GMT -5
I'm a Jesus freak- I'm not interested in a theocracy or anything resembling one. Anyone who's ever been to a church business meeting knows that's the only way our country could actually get more screwed up than it already is.
I am pro-life. I'm libertarian- for everyone. It's not strictly my religious views that inform me on the abortion issue- I go with the theory that if we allow murder of anyone for the economic convenience of the living, we'll eventually allow the murder of everyone for the same reasons. I firmly believe ObamaCare is a start, and national / socialized / or universal healthcare will have as their primary aim the elimination of the infirm and expensive as a means of controlling costs. Oh, they won't call it 'death panels' - most will be killed by bureaucrats in the favored rationing tool of the central planners: the waiting list. I do believe that abortion and euthanasia create what is commonly referred to by conservatives as a 'culture of death' where ALL life is devalued, and that in such a system moral relativism is the order of the day.
And I'm for religious people, especially Christians since they seem to be the exception to promised protections found in the First Amendment, being left alone in terms of the use of force against them. This means we can pray, tell others our point of view, and engage in other religious activities, peaceful assemblies, and expressions without fear of government guns. Kinda like Muslims.
Other than that- my religion doesn't influence much politically. Most of what dictates my politics is math. We can't afford all these wonderful progressive ideas- and the only place progressives are progressing is towards bankruptcy.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Dec 16, 2013 16:48:12 GMT -5
Indirectly, I could have been involved. I wasn't the guy interpreting the intelligence or making those kinds of decisions. I just maintained the networks used to transmit and share the intel, and the systems/applications the analysts used to interpret it in order to make their recommendations and release their findings.
It was a weird job. The coolness/technology factor was very high. Constitutionally it was terrifying. The things that have become standard operating procedure for our military are extremely dangerous from a potential for abuse perspective.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 18, 2013 12:16:21 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 18, 2013 12:18:05 GMT -5
enjoy it while it lasts. it will be all forgotten with the debt ceiling implodes.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 18, 2013 12:23:14 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 18, 2013 12:27:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2013 14:21:37 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity I was wondering where all the naysayers against voter ID laws are? You know, the laws that unfairly targeted the poor and minorities because it was to difficult for these people to travel and get legal ID. I was wondering why these same people are quiet about people who have to travel to get a health care navigator or borrow a computer because they can't afford one. Where is the outrage?
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