FL strikes again! Untested execution drug to be used

[Shooby]

  Well, we could go back the electric chair or a firing squad.  Sorry, i don't much care.  If you committed such a heinous crime that you are on death row,  then maybe a few milliseconds of suffering might bring some understanding on what that person did to their victim or victims.

[mmhmm]

Oct 16, 2013 6:05:40 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  There is nothing "untested" about midazolam (Versed).  It is one of the most common drugs used in surgery and anesthesia.  

I think they're referring to the combination of drugs being used as being "untested", Shoobs.  What I haven't been able to figure out is why they need the second and third drugs at all.  It would seem to me they could use a barbiturate or an opiate.  Used alone and in a sufficient dose, either would accomplish the purpose.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 16, 2013 8:56:34 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 16, 2013 6:05:40 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  There is nothing "untested" about midazolam (Versed).  It is one of the most common drugs used in surgery and anesthesia.  

I think they're referring to the combination of drugs being used as being "untested", Shoobs.  What I haven't been able to figure out is why they need the second and third drugs at all.  It would seem to me they could use a barbiturate or an opiate.  Used alone and in a sufficient dose, either would accomplish the purpose.

I've long wondered about that too. Why not just pump a lethal dose of barbiturate into a condemned man's veins? It kills animals good and dead in 30 seconds.

[Shooby]

Oct 16, 2013 8:56:34 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 16, 2013 6:05:40 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  There is nothing "untested" about midazolam (Versed).  It is one of the most common drugs used in surgery and anesthesia.  

I think they're referring to the combination of drugs being used as being "untested", Shoobs.  What I haven't been able to figure out is why they need the second and third drugs at all.  It would seem to me they could use a barbiturate or an opiate.  Used alone and in a sufficient dose, either would accomplish the purpose.

High dose opiates do not reliably induce unconsciousness.  And, a barbiturate will cause loss of conscious and a high enough dose will induce apnea.  But, even a large dose is quickly metabolized and out of the system so there needs to be combination such as potassium to stop the heart and/or a paralyzing agent to prevent breathing.

[Virgil Showlion]

Ah.

[mmhmm]

Having done some reading on this subject this morning, it seems some states DO use only one drug, Virgil.  Looks like most use pentobarbitol,  but Kentucky uses midazolam and hydromorphone (looks like they either use one drug alone, or both drugs) and Missouri uses Propofol.  The link below shows all the states' protocols.

"ONE DRUG: Seven states have used a single-drug method for executions--a lethal dose of an anesthetic (Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Ohio, South Dakota, Texas, and Washington). Five other states have announced use of one-drug lethal injection protocols, but have not carried out such an execution (Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, and Tennessee)."

State by State Lethal Injections

[Spellbound454]

Does executing someone make society less violent?.......I think it probably doesn't.

There is a difference between punishment and retribution..... in that if it is your loved one who has been killed you can never have retribution.
Nothing and no-one, not even the "humane" death of the perpetrator is going to make it better.

What you can do... is not lose your soul in the search for the revenge you just can't have.

[zibazinski]

Oh, please. These animals kill without conscience and would do so again given the chance. No, it doesn't bring a loved one back. Perhaps if the feral perp had been put down the FIRST time they crossed the line of human behavior, someone wouldn't have lost their loved one. I think the judge, defense attorneys, and jurors who let these scumbags walk the streets AGAIN after they've already proven they aren't fit for society should be held personally responsible and as guilty as the perp for the next crime the perp commits. 

[Shooby]

Oct 16, 2013 12:47:31 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Does executing someone make society less violent?.......I think it probably doesn't.

There is a difference between punishment and retribution..... in that if it is your loved one who has been killed you can never have retribution.
Nothing and no-one, not even the "humane" death of the perpetrator is going to make it better.

What you can do... is not lose your soul in the search for the revenge you just can't have.

I don't really care if it makes society less violent.  Sometimes the death penalty is a FIT punishment for the crime committed and trying paint that as "revenge" is very offensive to the victims in my opinion because wanting justice is not "revenge".

[EVT1]

Whether it is a fit punishment or not doesn't really mattter when innocent people are constantly ending up on death row.

Anyone want to support the notion that it is better to execute a few innocent people than to let some evil scumbags spend life in prison?

The truth is that the death penalty is pretty much only good for is retribution- it costs more to execute someone and there is no deterrent value to society- so other than bloodlust what reason do we have to keep it? (Other than the fact we prefer to be the last in line when it comes to progress)

[Spellbound454]

Sometimes the death penalty is a FIT punishment for the crime committed and trying paint that as "revenge" is very offensive to the victims in my opinion because wanting justice is not "revenge".

What you can do is take control and say..... Just because you are an inhumane murdering bastard........I am not
Just because you have lost your humanity doesn't mean I have lost my own.
There are reasons the bible says turn the other cheek.....1. because it allows people to heal and 2 because a society ensconced in escalating violence can't function properly.
The debt is paid to society not an individual.

Wanting the death penalty...and standing there to watch it performed is revenge shooby......and it will never heal that kind of hurt.

[zibazinski]

That's YOUR opinion. It would help mine a lot but my perps who harm mine would probably not make it to trial.

[zibazinski]

Also, if perp was a career perp, which is likely, those that let perp off/out to harm mine would need to watch their backs as well. 

[EVT1]

Oct 16, 2013 15:30:02 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Sometimes the death penalty is a FIT punishment for the crime committed and trying paint that as "revenge" is very offensive to the victims in my opinion because wanting justice is not "revenge".

What you can do is take control and say..... Just because you are an inhumane murdering bastard........I am not
Just because you have lost your humanity doesn't mean I have lost my own.
There are reasons the bible says turn the other cheek.....1. because it allows people to heal and 2 because a society ensconced in escalating violence can't function properly.
The debt is paid to society not an individual.

Wanting the death penalty...and standing there to watch it performed is revenge shooby......and it will never heal that kind of hurt.

Pretty weak revenge- instead of a long shitty life in prison you give them an out- take the big sleep.  The fact that some of them prefer to die should be enough to weaken the punishment angle- and all that leaves is the bloodlust.  I say if the victims really want the death penalty then let them do it with a knife face to face- wonder how many could handle that.

Although the Bible can be interpreted any way you like- my official religion is against the death penalty- not sure about the others but we are a pretty big outfit- even have a Pope.