A new look on child support!

[justme]

Sue the (owners of the) establishment where the child was conceived!

From today's Dear Prudence:

Where's the Money?
Dear Prudence, I am furious with another set of parents. My 16-year-old daughter has recently told her mother and me that she is pregnant. It happened at a party that was not well supervised and there was alcohol involved. The boy involved and his family are owning up to their share of the responsibility, but the owners of the house are absolutely infuriating me. They need to admit their share of this burden as it was their booze and their house party that allowed this to happen. My family is going to have a lot of expenses due to this new baby, and I don't know how much the boy's family can help, so it seems that the party's host should help out, again as it was on their watch that this happened. So far, that family has ignored me when I have tried to speak with them about this. I am ready to call a lawyer to press the issue, but my wife thinks I am overreacting. What do you think?

I'm the pregnant girl's dad
My anger is that this would NOT have happened at my home. I supervise parties and visits, and the fact that this other family was so irresponsibly really galls me. I do think they have a duty to make right their lapse.

Link to whole chat live.washingtonpost.com/dear-prudence-131007.html
Links to these specific questions to see her response live.washingtonpost.com/dear-prudence-131007.html#Where's-the-Mon and  live.washingtonpost.com/dear-prudence-131007.html#I'm-the-pregnan

[The Captain]

Of COURSE it would never have happened on his watch as it sounds like his little angel has sooo much respect for her parent's values.

And EVERY ELSE is responsible (except for his little darling).

[lexxy703]

Interesting concept.  If she had an accident leaving the party due to alcohol the family could be held responsible.  I realize their isn't injury to an innocent third party in this instance.

[mollyanna58]

There are signs in this area that say "Parents who host can lose the most" and go on to state some of the legal ramifications for parents who allow underage party guests to consume alcohol.  I don't recall seeing child support on the list    

[Deleted]

Hey, any deep pocket you can find.

[justme]

I sort of get his thought process - if there was a car accident they probably could go after the parents - but going after them about a kid is ridiculous. Plus - how does he know it was THAT party she got knocked up at. I'm sure sometimes it's once and done, but I would think once you do it once, most teens do it again.

[greeniis10]

He can blame the parent's who hosted (or owned the house) for the underage drinking and providing alcohol.  That is illegal and should be pursued.

The pregnancy he cannot blame them for.  That is just lashing out on his part and wanting to blame someone else for his daughter's mistake.

I need to read the links and the comments now...

[justme]

The comments on Washington Post's site are always a low number - eventually it will be posted on Slate's site and that's where the comments are good.

[nogooddeed]

Um, no.  It wasn't the host's booze that allowed this to happen.  It was the male and female who mated. 

[michelyn8]

Boy, Daddy has some really misplaced anger/frustration here.  He cannot prove that the pregnancy occurred at that home in the midst of the party.  For all he knows, dear daughter and her boy "friend" got frisky in the car on the way to the party.  He and/or his wife are the ones that granted the girl permission to go out the night they attended the party and if he was unaware of where they were going and/or what was going on at that house, one could argue its really his fault the girl is now expecting.

He needs to just cool off and be happy that the baby's father is being man enough to step up and take responsibility for this child.  There are to many punks out there that would have denied they were the baby daddy and claimed his little angel had been giving it away to half the school.

[Virgil Showlion]

And Timmy gets to grow up knowing he was conceived in a drunken fling, after which his grandparents sued the owners of the "love shack" for serving booze to minors, resulting in the whole debacle being written up in a nationally syndicated advice column.

Welcome to Earth, kid.

[souldoubt]

I'm sure his 16 year old daughter wouldn't lie about where or when she possibly got pregnant.  Let's see which sounds better from daddy's little angel:

"Dad we were at a supervised party where the parents of _____ let us drink alcohol and I made a mistake!" <tears flow> 

or

"Dad, I've been sexually active for the last ____  months/years and got pregnant."  <look of shame>

She made the choice to drink and eventually have sex.  Dad needs to sack up and realize that somewhere along the way he and his wife may have made a mistake as parents.  We were all teens once and I'm not saying I was perfect but most people make it through HS without having a kid. 

[Deleted]

Oct 7, 2013 14:02:43 GMT -5 michelyn8 said:

He and/or his wife are the ones that granted the girl permission to go out the night they attended the party and if he was unaware of where they were going and/or what was going on at that house, one could argue its really his fault the girl is now expecting.

A friend of mine never let her kids go to a party till she called the parents and asked a few questions, including, "Did you KNOW you were having a party?"

[michelyn8]

Oct 7, 2013 14:11:01 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

I'm sure his 16 year old daughter wouldn't lie about where or when she possibly got pregnant.  Let's see which sounds better from daddy's little angel:

"Dad we were at a supervised party where the parents of _____ let us drink alcohol and I made a mistake!" <tears flow> 

or

"Dad, I've been sexually active for the last ____  months/years and got pregnant."  <look of shame>

She made the choice to drink and eventually have sex.  Dad needs to sack up and realize that somewhere along the way he and his wife may have made a mistake as parents.  We were all teens once and I'm not saying I was perfect but most people make it through HS without having a kid. 

How did the parents make a mistake?  The girl and this boy made the choice to have sex, not the girl, boy, and her parents. 
You can teach your kids all about sex, contraception, and STD's and preach abstinence while offering birth control and still end up with a pregnant teenaged daughter. 

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

Oct 7, 2013 13:20:24 GMT -5 justme said:

I sort of get his thought process - if there was a car accident they probably could go after the parents - but going after them about a kid is ridiculous. Plus - how does he know it was THAT party she got knocked up at. I'm sure sometimes it's once and done, but I would think once you do it once, most teens do it again.

And secondly, how would he prove it in a court of law? 

[souldoubt]

Oct 7, 2013 14:23:52 GMT -5 michelyn8 said:

Oct 7, 2013 14:11:01 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

I'm sure his 16 year old daughter wouldn't lie about where or when she possibly got pregnant.  Let's see which sounds better from daddy's little angel:

"Dad we were at a supervised party where the parents of _____ let us drink alcohol and I made a mistake!" <tears flow> 

or

"Dad, I've been sexually active for the last ____  months/years and got pregnant."  <look of shame>

She made the choice to drink and eventually have sex.  Dad needs to sack up and realize that somewhere along the way he and his wife may have made a mistake as parents.  We were all teens once and I'm not saying I was perfect but most people make it through HS without having a kid. 

How did the parents make a mistake?  The girl and this boy made the choice to have sex, not the girl, boy, and her parents. 
You can teach your kids all about sex, contraception, and STD's and preach abstinence while offering birth control and still end up with a pregnant teenaged daughter. 

It starts at home.  Yes you learn about what can happen from having unprotected sex in school (or most schools) but parents need to take the initiative and have that discussion with their kids as well. Dad's trying to blame someone else so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume like most people who point the finger before anything some of the blame is his own.  If his daughter got pregnant after having sex in the back of a car is he going to sue the car manufacturer for making a back seat that was too easy to have sex in?

[greeniis10]

Oct 7, 2013 14:26:17 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

Oct 7, 2013 13:20:24 GMT -5 justme said:

I sort of get his thought process - if there was a car accident they probably could go after the parents - but going after them about a kid is ridiculous. Plus - how does he know it was THAT party she got knocked up at. I'm sure sometimes it's once and done, but I would think once you do it once, most teens do it again.

And secondly, how would he prove it in a court of law? 

Exactly!  And why on earth did he decide to write to Dear Prudence about this  I mean, contact a lawyer and have them tell you if this is something to pursue (no!) but writing an advice columnist??  I don't get that part...

[kittensaver]

This guy needs to stop looking for someone or something to blame, and recognize that unless his daughter was raped she voluntarily made this choice to get involved with the boyfriend and a pregnancy is one possible consequence of her choice. What this girl needs right now is some parenting - some seriously mature help at looking how she got here and how she is going to have to grow up - fast - and move forward. Anger and blame-shifting will NOT help her make correct choices for herself - it will only perpetuate a child-like dependency and create another generation of blame-shifters.

[michelyn8]

Oct 7, 2013 14:31:16 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

Oct 7, 2013 14:23:52 GMT -5 michelyn8 said:

How did the parents make a mistake?  The girl and this boy made the choice to have sex, not the girl, boy, and her parents. 
You can teach your kids all about sex, contraception, and STD's and preach abstinence while offering birth control and still end up with a pregnant teenaged daughter. 

It starts at home.  Yes you learn about what can happen from having unprotected sex in school (or most schools) but parents need to take the initiative and have that discussion with their kids as well. Dad's trying to blame someone else so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume like most people who point the finger before anything some of the blame is his own.  If his daughter got pregnant after having sex in the back of a car is he going to sue the car manufacturer for making a back seat that was too easy to have sex in?

Where did I say anything about what the schools teach?  I had the talks with my daughters about sex, abstinence, STD's, etc. and told them if they still chose to have sex to please come to me first and I'd take them to the Dr. to go on birth control.  They both lived the consequences of my choices (pregnant with their older brother at 16 during a non-relationship and a subsequent failed marriage with their father) and both still chose to have sex as teenagers before going on BC.  Both were grounded when their father and I found out, had to go on BC and visit a Dr. for a check up and testing for STD's.  One daughter still got pregnant at 19 and other is still child free.  By your logic, I guess the child free one I had nothing to do with and the other got pregnant because of a mistake I made? 

Parents can do all the right things in these situations and still have something go wrong.  Its just like teaching your child not to do drugs and they still make the choice to try it just once only to end up hooked for years.

[formerroomate99]

What this girl needs now is to find a couple to adopt the kid.  With parents like this, the pregnant teenager doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of doing a decent job raising the kid she created. 

[souldoubt]

Oct 7, 2013 15:24:27 GMT -5 michelyn8 said:

Oct 7, 2013 14:31:16 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

It starts at home.  Yes you learn about what can happen from having unprotected sex in school (or most schools) but parents need to take the initiative and have that discussion with their kids as well. Dad's trying to blame someone else so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume like most people who point the finger before anything some of the blame is his own.  If his daughter got pregnant after having sex in the back of a car is he going to sue the car manufacturer for making a back seat that was too easy to have sex in?

Where did I say anything about what the schools teach?  I had the talks with my daughters about sex, abstinence, STD's, etc. and told them if they still chose to have sex to please come to me first and I'd take them to the Dr. to go on birth control.  They both lived the consequences of my choices (pregnant with their older brother at 16 during a non-relationship and a subsequent failed marriage with their father) and both still chose to have sex as teenagers before going on BC.  Both were grounded when their father and I found out, had to go on BC and visit a Dr. for a check up and testing for STD's.  One daughter still got pregnant at 19 and other is still child free.  By your logic, I guess the child free one I had nothing to do with and the other got pregnant because of a mistake I made? 

Parents can do all the right things in these situations and still have something go wrong.  Its just like teaching your child not to do drugs and they still make the choice to try it just once only to end up hooked for years.

My point about mentioning schools is that even if parents fail you know the repercussions of having unprotected sex, i.e. the definitely kids deserve blame.  Never said parents couldn't do everything in their power and this might still be the result.  As far as my logic you're reaching and I even said verbatim

"Dad needs to sack up and realize that somewhere along the way he and his wife may have made a mistake as parents." 

Notice the word "may" in there.  This is a guy who is considering legal action and starts by getting advice from a columnist.  So I'll reach and make the assumption that the dad isn't the best role model.  Considering he's trying to blame someone else for his daughters actions as many other people have alluded in this very thread that makes me question him as a parent more than the typical horny teenage kids.   

[Tennesseer]

If they screwed in the back of a Ford Expidition and conceived a kid, do you sue Ford?

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Oct 7, 2013 14:11:38 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Oct 7, 2013 14:02:43 GMT -5 michelyn8 said:

He and/or his wife are the ones that granted the girl permission to go out the night they attended the party and if he was unaware of where they were going and/or what was going on at that house, one could argue its really his fault the girl is now expecting.

A friend of mine never let her kids go to a party till she called the parents and asked a few questions, including, "Did you KNOW you were having a party?"

That's how I always start my calls in these situations.

I call because I should.  But, I also get to call to give the parents a heads up about my DSs' life-threatening food allergies.  If the hosts weren't afraid the party would get out of control before I called, they are now afraid -- that my kid will have a reaction on their watch.  


(J/K about the reaction.  Yes, it COULD happen, but so far both DSs are careful when out and about at parties.)

[NastyWoman]

This dad reminds me of some old cartoons: character gets told shocking news -> closes eyes which start whirling like a slot machine -> opens eyes and now has $$$$ signs for eyes.
It is not fun but it happened so he should get on with supporting DD as she enters a new paradigm aka parenthood.

[michelyn8]

Oct 7, 2013 16:34:09 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

My point about mentioning schools is that even if parents fail you know the repercussions of having unprotected sex, i.e. the definitely kids deserve blame.  Never said parents couldn't do everything in their power and this might still be the result.  As far as my logic you're reaching and I even said verbatim

"Dad needs to sack up and realize that somewhere along the way he and his wife may have made a mistake as parents." 

Notice the word "may" in there.  This is a guy who is considering legal action and starts by getting advice from a columnist.  So I'll reach and make the assumption that the dad isn't the best role model.  Considering he's trying to blame someone else for his daughters actions as many other people have alluded in this very thread that makes me question him as a parent more than the typical horny teenage kids.   

I agree the father may be part of the problem.  If he's looking for blame outside the house, then its very possible her parents were the kind that would have hit the roof if she'd even mentioned she was considering having sex and wanted to go on BC.  I know if I'd tried to approach my mother with that issue, I'd have gotten a bunch of lectures - she didn't even want me going on BC after I had my son and I didn't because I didn't want to deal with her if she found the pills during one of her snoop sessions so I can only imagine what this girl is dealing with on top of trying to figure out what her next step should be.  

Instead of teaching her to place blame on someone who wasn't there, she needs to start looking at what her options are with this child and how to finish her education and build a life for herself with or without the baby and boyfriend in the picture.

[formerroomate99]

Oct 7, 2013 16:32:15 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Oct 7, 2013 16:23:38 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

What this girl needs now is to find a couple to adopt the kid.  With parents like this, the pregnant teenager doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of doing a decent job raising the kid she created. 

That's ridiculous. we know nothing about her - or her family - outside of this silly letter. The baby's father is in the picture - what she does - and what her potential is - is up to her.

Her father writing a stupid letter doesn't make her anything at all.

We know that this girl is very young, has made a series of very bad decisions, and has at least one parent who isn't playing with a full deck.  We also know that when push comes to shove, she calls the shots, so the baby daddy being in the picture doesn't mean much.  I don't think this girl is more irresponsible than most teenagers, but teenagers aren't exactly known for doing a good job raising kids. 

[imawino]

Oct 8, 2013 12:34:44 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Wasn't Mary a teen mom? And unwed too, until Joseph stepped up

Yeah, teen mom from the OP should have tried to play the immaculate conception card.  This dad may have fallen for it. 

[Deleted]

I know I didn't do the nasty until my wedding night! 

ETA: Oh wait! My Dad doesn't post here. Nevermind.... 

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"There are signs in this area that say "Parents who host can lose the most" and go on to state some of the legal ramifications for parents who allow underage party guests to consume alcohol. I don't recall seeing child support on the list":::...

I've seen those, and its interesting.  I can see how this "could" be considered just enough of an extension of the same principle that it might be worth pursuing from a legal standpoint.  However, as was said, it would have to be proven without any doubt that it was THAT party the conception took place at.  At the very least, both kids would have to swear under oath that they did get busy at the party, and not before or not after.  Maybe one of them didn't have a drop?  Maybe the guy got drunk and pressured the girl.  Maybe the girl got drunk and pressured the guy.  Maybe it was the 4th time that day they'd gotten busy?  Maybe they normally use protection, and something went wrong this time.  Maybe they thought they'd beat the odds, and didn't.

I know that some parents believe that providing alcohol for their kids and friends in their own home at least keeps the kids "safer" than having them drinking in fields, or going to strange parties, or trying to make a deal with an older person to buy it for them.  I get the logic.  Then the parents "know where the kids are" and some will forbid the kids from leaving.

I also believe that you can park teens in weekly or daily lectures about the dangers of unprotected sex, and the doors that will close on them, and the costs they will have to incur, and all the bad bad stuff that pregnant teens have to deal with; and all of them will sit there, and nod.  But when they are in the throws of passion/hormones, they will just think that all that bad stuff "won't happen to them".

My parents were totally the types who refused to host a party, and refused to allow alcohol, BECAUSE of the possibility of liability.  I hated that, but I did at least understand where they were coming from.

ETA: was the baby-daddy's house also the party house?  I wasn't 100% clear on that.  I can see being more inclined to sue if the party happened at the baby-daddy's house.  I'd be LIVID though if I threw a party, and people I didn't know tried to sue me.