Pirate Joe triumphs over Trader Joe

[Opti]

As I read this article, I wondered if Tloony had a Canadian relative.

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/03/20801385-arr-canadas-pirate-joe-celebrates-dismissal-of-trader-joes-lawsuit#comments

For a man who calls himself "Pirate Joe," a legal victory this week allowing him to continue operating his business is as sweet as the Trader Joe's chocolate bars that he sells for a small profit in his Vancouver store.

Michael Hallatt, 53, has been stocking his 600-square-foot shop exclusively with Trader Joe's products and selling them to Canadians — who don't have Trader Joe's stores in their country — for nearly two years. The 1,200 items he offers fly off the shelves, but the Victoria, British Columbia, native's livelihood was threatened in May when Monrovia, Calif.-based grocer Trader Joe's slapped him with a lawsuit.

Inspired by a shopping trip where he was one of many Vancouverites at the Trader Joe's in Bellingham, Wash. — the closest store to Vancouver, where more than 40 percent of credit card transactions are from non-U.S. residents — Hallatt decided to simply sell the products at home in January 2012.

Soon, he was spending about $25,000 a month at Trader Joe's. He only buys nonperishable items and doesn't sell alcohol.

At first, Trader Joe's employees in Bellingham thought Pirate Joe's, which started out as "Transilvania Trading" in a former Romanian bakery's storefront, was "awesome," Hallatt said. They saw Hallatt's Vancouver outlet as a way to reduce the long lines in their own store.

But slowly, as Hallatt started making weekly trips and filling up his cart with cookies, chips, bean dip, and anything else that his fellow Canadians were "jonesin' for," he became an unfriendly face there. And in Seattle. And in Portland, Ore. And elsewhere along the West Coast. His photo is up in multiple stores with distinct orders not to allow him through the check-out counters.

[Opti]

Long article but worth reading. (EEers should love it. )

From the end of article for those who'd like a summary:
Pirate Joe's has one full-time and one part-time employee and typically sells items at a two or three-dollar markup. Salad dressing, for example, costs $2.29 (USD) at Trader Joe's and will sell for $3.99 (Canadian) at Pirate Joe's. The store is not particularly profitable.

"I've never had more fun making less money in my life," Hallatt said.

He may still have challenges ahead, but for now, he is handing out chocolate bars and celebrating his legal victory in the best way he knows how: pirate-style.

"Woohoo! or perhaps, 'Arr!'" he said shortly after receiving news that the lawsuit had been dismissed.

[zibazinski]

If trader joes was smart, they'd open stores where there's a demand for them.

[Sam_2.0]

No, he can't be related to Looney. He's not selling baby formula

[Sam_2.0]

Oct 4, 2013 8:09:51 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

If trader joes was smart, they'd open stores where there's a demand for them.

There's probably some reason why they can't open in Canada. I bet they are working on it though.

[NancysSummerSip]

And no Amish chickens.

But he might have his melons out there.

Trader Joes is in expansion mode - we're getting one here next year in our neighborhood. I have to applaud them for getting bigger, but trying to do it right, and not build one on every corner. According to their website, they have 15 stores in various stages of planning/construction/pre-opening. Personally, this is one place I'll happily wait in line to get into the day it does open. I've been in a few when I've traveled, and I love them.

Nothing planned for Canada at this point, and that may be due to the expense and/or legalities of building in another country. Never did it personally, so I don't know.

[midwestlily]

I wish he'd open a store in my town!!!

I lived most of my life in LA and started shopping at Trader Joe's more than 30 years ago.  I LOVE Trader Joe's.  Now I live 70 miles from the nearest store, so I make a pilgrimage up there a few times a year, complete with coolers in the trunk for the cold and frozen items.  

I keep hoping they'll open a store here, but recently a friend told me that it's unlikely that they ever will; she said that they don't open stores in small LCOL college towns.  I work at the state university in a small college town, and our county has the highest poverty level in the state.   So no Trader Joe's for us.  

[zibazinski]

Grand Rapids was hoping for one. Still don't know why it didn't happen. Plenty of money and demand here.

[Opti]

For those that didn't read the article, Trader Joes has a pending application with Canada they started I think in 2010. One of the issues might be a liquor licenses for a non-Canadian firm.

I too wish they had more stores. I keep meaning to write them as my area should be a good
match and there's been enough grocery store and drug store closings. There are still a couple decent properties left. Personally I think they'd be better off embracing this guy and being his supplier until they do get approved. Make him the first Canadian store manager when it happens, for example. It might have to do with not letting their trademark get diluted, but without knowing the legal reasons, it seems they would be better off partnering with this guy until they do get formal approval in Canada.


I just found it amusing his business model was to go to the Walmart so to speak and it has
been profitable. I'd be willing to do something like that for enough demand. My nearest TJ's
are probably about 20 miles in two different directions so I'd probably need a different store
as my supplier.

[tskeeter]

Oct 4, 2013 10:43:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

For those that didn't read the article, Trader Joes has a pending application with Canada they started I think in 2010. One of the issues might be a liquor licenses for a non-Canadian firm.

I too wish they had more stores. I keep meaning to write them as my area should be a good
match and there's been enough grocery store and drug store closings. There are still a couple decent properties left. Personally I think they'd be better off embracing this guy and being his supplier until they do get approved. Make him the first Canadian store manager when it happens, for example. It might have to do with not letting their trademark get diluted, but without knowing the legal reasons, it seems they would be better off partnering with this guy until they do get formal approval in Canada.


I just found it amusing his business model was to go to the Walmart so to speak and it has
been profitable. I'd be willing to do something like that for enough demand. My nearest TJ's
are probably about 20 miles in two different directions so I'd probably need a different store
as my supplier.

Interesting and somewhat amusing story.  But I don't think taking this guy on as a partner is a viable solution for TJ's.  What do you do with your partner when you pending applications are finally approved and you want to open your own stores?  Boot him to the curb?  In the mean time, do you do things that set him up to compete with your stores when you open them?

As far as making him a store manager or moving him to some other position goes.  He doesn't strike me as a corporate type.  I suspect that a free wheeling, do as I please, stick it to the man individual wouldn't be very happy in a situation where you are required to follow the rules (you have to admit, this guy is a great color outside the lines personality), and would probably be pretty disruptive in the high conformance culture of most large businesses.

It is interesting that TJ's is refusing to sell to this guy.  But, in some respects I can see why they might take that position.  This guy wheels in, unannouced, probably pretty much strips the shelves bare of several highly desirable products, and leaves the store without any inventory to serve their regular customers.  This is an even bigger issue when you consider that TJ's business model is to buy the ends of production runs, odd lots, and the like, so there often is a limited supply of certain items.  And once the pirate has gobbled up the supply, it can't be replenished because there is no more.

All in all, it seems like the pirate is a relatively disruptive force for TJ's in the NW area. 

[Deleted]

Oct 4, 2013 10:38:58 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Grand Rapids was hoping for one. Still don't know why it didn't happen. Plenty of money and demand here.

used to live there Zib

about a block from Gerald Ford's boyhood home

nice people...hated the weather

[justme]

For those that didn't read the article, Trader Joes has a pending application with Canada they started I think in 2010. One of the issues might be a liquor licenses for a non-Canadian firm.

Not sure about in BC, but in Ontario they can't sell liquor/beer/wine. Only the Liquor Control Board of Ontario can sell alcohol - there's some exceptions for wineries. Everything is the same price there too - there's no going to another store for a cheaper price, even the restaurants have to pay the same price for booze as everyone else.

[zibazinski]

Sme of the people are nice, others act like if you weren't born and bred here, perish the thought, that you're invisible.

[Deleted]

Oct 4, 2013 11:47:35 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

This is an even bigger issue when you consider that TJ's business model is to buy the ends of production runs, odd lots, and the like, so there often is a limited supply of certain items.  And once the pirate has gobbled up the supply, it can't be replenished because there is no more.

Huh?  What do they buy end of production runs to make?  It is primarily groceries & products that are carried year over year, so how is that buying end runs.  Most products I buy there have been consistently available over the last 10 years and from the same suppliers.

I assume that other than the wipe the shelves clear issue, they also have a liability issue.  Some other person is handling, transporting, storing and selling their product but in the end its TJs name on the product if someone gets tainted product.

Also the product sold in the US does not meet Canadian labeling requirements, so they were probably had to sue the guy to prove they weren't making an unapproved entry to the Canadian market via distributors.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

There's probably some reason why they can't open in Canada. I bet they are working on it though.

It wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing them cropping up here in the near future.

[Virgil Showlion]

Who or what is a "Trader Joe", and why does anybody care exactly?

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2013 19:21:35 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Who or what is a "Trader Joe", and why does anybody care exactly?

 Really? You haven't the sense to Google?

 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe's
  
 "Trader Joe's" is a "brand name" chain of grocery stores, with (as of 2013) 471 stores.

[Opti]

Virgil, its a mid-sized grocery store that sells mostly its own products. They don't have
a butcher or typical seafood section on site but they sell packaged and frozen meats, seafood along the canned goods, some produce, frozen foods, and a well known liquor section because they find and sell some cheap but good wines.

Unlike Rockit, I'm used to them killing off favorites of mine over the years. They used to sell something like Onion Rings except it was more like Onion Rings/straws mixed together. Good price. Beef hash, Thai crackers, etc. All gone.  They also often bring in food items and then make their own version. If it doesn't sell enough they kill it. Years ago they sold Amy's Roasted Veggie pizza at a really good price, dropped it and replaced it with their own version and then dropped it for better selling dairy-based pizzas they introduced. They did something
similar with Soy Delicious, but my guess is their brand of it is still selling well.

They have pretty good prices on somethings and OK to slightly high on others.
A good portion of what they sell can only be found in their store.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 5, 2013 21:30:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

Virgil, its a mid-sized grocery store that sells mostly its own products. They don't have
a butcher or typical seafood section on site but they sell packaged and frozen meats, seafood along the canned goods, some produce, frozen foods, and a well known liquor section because they find and sell some cheap but good wines.

Unlike Rockit, I'm used to them killing off favorites of mine over the years. They used to sell something like Onion Rings except it was more like Onion Rings/straws mixed together. Good price. Beef hash, Thai crackers, etc. All gone.  They also often bring in food items and then make their own version. If it doesn't sell enough they kill it. Years ago they sold Amy's Roasted Veggie pizza at a really good price, dropped it and replaced it with their own version and then dropped it for better selling dairy-based pizzas they introduced. They did something
similar with Soy Delicious, but my guess is their brand of it is still selling well.

They have pretty good prices on somethings and OK to slightly high on others.
A good portion of what they sell can only be found in their store.

Ah. Thanks for the rundown.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 5, 2013 21:09:07 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

Oct 5, 2013 19:21:35 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Who or what is a "Trader Joe", and why does anybody care exactly?

 Really? You haven't the sense to Google?

 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe's
  
 "Trader Joe's" is a "brand name" chain of grocery stores, with (as of 2013) 471 stores.

If I wanted a canned description from a dubious source, I am indeed more than capable of typing 11 characters into Google.

[Deleted]

...but instead, you asked some anonymous people on an internet message board.
 Cuz they're so much more authoritative.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 5, 2013 22:09:28 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

...but instead, you asked some anonymous people on an internet message board.
 Cuz they're so much more authoritative.

They can give me an answer to my specific question (why does anyone care about Trader Joe's?) that I don't have to read through a wall of text to get and that I know isn't coming from somebody trying to sell me something or smear a competitor.

I trust the people here at least that much. If you want to cast your net over the entire Internet and see what turns up, be my guest.

[Deleted]

They can give me an answer to my specific question (why does anyone care about Trader Joe's?) that I don't have to read through a wall of text to get and that I know isn't coming from somebody trying to sell me something or smear a competitor. I trust the people here at least that much. If you want to cast your net over the entire Internet and see what turns up, be my guest.

 Personally, the snooty dismissal of Wikipedia (as if it were worthless) surprises me.
 Wikipedia is a valuable asset for many people who don't possess or have ready access to various encylopedias and reference books.
 

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 5, 2013 23:13:31 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

They can give me an answer to my specific question (why does anyone care about Trader Joe's?) that I don't have to read through a wall of text to get and that I know isn't coming from somebody trying to sell me something or smear a competitor. I trust the people here at least that much. If you want to cast your net over the entire Internet and see what turns up, be my guest.

 Personally, the snooty dismissal of Wikipedia (as if it were worthless) surprises me.
 Wikipedia is a valuable asset for many people who don't possess or have ready access to various encylopedias and reference books.
 

...and it provides 14 pages of material, almost none of which is relevant to my question.

Besides that, would you trust any public domain article that volunteers an answer to the question "What makes xyz corp. so attractive to consumers?"

I use Wikipedia for plenty of things. Mathematics. Geography. Obscure facts about insects. But I make a point of avoiding it if the information I'm looking for is likely to be heavily doctored or censored. I would not trust anything but the barest facts in a Wikipedia article on the British Royal Society, for example.

[Deleted]

 So... what you're looking for are personal reviews of the enterprise ("Trader Joe's") from message board posters who have patronized the business?
 There are six TJs located in Connecticut, I have not shopped at any of them. They're mostly down in the southeast corner of the state, nearest to NYC.

 

[Virgil Showlion]

So... what you're looking for are personal reviews of the enterprise ("Trader Joe's") from message board posters who have patronized the business?

That's indeed what I'm looking for.

I'm considered a "relational shopper". I care very little about prices or bargains, I don't enjoy comparative shopping, I value convenience, and I'll pay a heavy premium for consistently good service. Ergo whenever I find a store I like, I'll continue to buy everything I can there unless for some reason I stop liking it.

In spite of this, there are only a dozen businesses I'll go significantly out of my way to custom, and only three that I'm willing to spend time waiting at. Hence when I read a story about products "flying off the shelves" and Vancouverites crossing the border to get "Trader Joe's" goods and fare, I get curious about what exactly Joe sells that people like.

Optimist's reply is an a perfect example of what I'm looking for.

[mmhmm]

We have a Trader Joe's about 5 miles from us.  They've got some good products and are, for the most part, reasonably priced.  Some of their stuff doesn't impress me that much, but that's going to be true no matter where you go.  Some of their sweets and desserts are excellent, and they've got some shrimp corn dogs that are to die for and their frozen mandarin orange chicken is good, too.  You've just got to try things to see what you like.

[Nazgul Girl]

   We have a Trader Joe's about 12-15 miles from us ( Novi ).   I shopped there a few times, when it first opened up.   It's a nice (little) store.   Sorry, but I don't have the rave feeling about it that others have.    I like the products at Whole Foods and Costco better.   We have a chain of fancy grocery stores nearer by ( Hillers ), plus a larger, equally fancy store ( Holiday Market ) closer by, and they do have very good meat counters.

   There is a brand of sharp cheddar which I used to go to Trader Joe's to get.   It's called Black Diamond and is wonderful.   When I got it the second time at T.J.'s, it was moldy.   This is expensive cheese, so I drove up, and they refunded my money with no problems.    When I went there to shop again, I looked at the Black Diamond cheese again, very closely, and it was moldy.   I realize that they probably sell very little of this brand, but still.

   But, I do not go up there, because I can pick up the same products 3-4 miles away for the same or better prices, and I've never had any problems closer to home.  

   If you want a Trader Joes, go to Whole Foods !

[Formerly SK]

Oct 6, 2013 6:08:12 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

   We have a Trader Joe's about 12-15 miles from us ( Novi ).   I shopped there a few times, when it first opened up.   It's a nice (little) store.   Sorry, but I don't have the rave feeling about it that others have.    I like the products at Whole Foods and Costco better.   We have a chain of fancy grocery stores nearer by ( Hillers ), plus a larger, equally fancy store ( Holiday Market ) closer by, and they do have very good meat counters.

   There is a brand of sharp cheddar which I used to go to Trader Joe's to get.   It's called Black Diamond and is wonderful.   When I got it the second time at T.J.'s, it was moldy.   This is expensive cheese, so I drove up, and they refunded my money with no problems.    When I went there to shop again, I looked at the Black Diamond cheese again, very closely, and it was moldy.   I realize that they probably sell very little of this brand, but still.

   But, I do not go up there, because I can pick up the same products 3-4 miles away for the same or better prices, and I've never had any problems closer to home.  

   If you want a Trader Joes, go to Whole Foods !

Glad to know I'm not the only person who isn't impressed by Trader Joe's.  Sure, they have a couple things I like (clear balsamic vinegar, and DD loves their orange chicken) but for the most part it is a small store filled with either a) processed food, or b) alcohol.  Their produce section is microscopic and has tons of packaging you have to throw away.  Their processed food is generally better than other processed food, but in the end it's processed food.  I don't know that I think of them as especially cheap - their value seems to be on par with Costco but you can buy MUCH smaller items (Costco cheesecake is probaby 3x the size of TJ's cheesecake). 

[Deleted]

Our Trader Joe's doesn't have alcohol and neither did the one I used in NJ- I'm surprised that would stop them from expanding into Canada.

I'm not impressed with them, either- people who love them usually rave about this or that processed food but to me, if it's got a long list of ingredients I can't pronounce it's not that special.