Murder over property in TX not legal for shoplifting

[EVT1]

www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57605277-504083/rodney-duve-texas-store-owner-allegedly-kills-man-for-stealing-beer/

     The station reports Corpus Christi police said a known gang member came into Duve's store on Saturday night, grabbed a couple of packs of beer and tried to walk out without paying.

Not everyone happy about it:

www.everyjoe.com/2013/09/30/crime/rodney-james-duve-corpus-christi-texas-murder/

     If the law allows individuals to carry guns, they should be allowed to use those guns for protection. And that protection should extend to personal property

Sounds like a few people around here.....

So what's a life worth in this case- 12 bucks?  Granted they were a thief but come on- deadly force?  At least they arrested the guy.

[mtman]

Sept 30, 2013 22:19:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

  Likely could have just winged him instead of killing him

Why?.......One less thug to deal with later on......Was his life worth twelve dollars?.....Seems a little high.

[EVT1]

Sept 30, 2013 22:59:03 GMT -5 mtman said:

Sept 30, 2013 22:19:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

  Likely could have just winged him instead of killing him

Why?.......One less thug to deal with later on......Was his life worth twelve dollars?.....Seems a little high.

Can always count on you to stir it up.  I think a thief is a lowlife piece of shit- but I would not kill one.  Is that the bar we need- armed loss prevention officers shooting dead suspects over a few bucks? 

But- stay consistent here- say some naked guy on a frat dare rushes 7-11 and runs out with a pack or two- are you willing to accept the death penalty for him as well? Is there some thug beacon we are unaware of that you have privy to?

(I know the answer)

 

[swamp]

Ooh ooh ooh. I know the answer too!

[mmhmm]

IMO, there are many kinds of "thugs".  Some seem to think anyone not like them is one of them.  These folks don't need evidence.  They don't even need to know what happened.  All they need is an excuse to blow somebody away.  I see those folks as "thugs".  Each to his/her own, I suppose.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 30, 2013 22:59:03 GMT -5 mtman said:

Sept 30, 2013 22:19:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

  Likely could have just winged him instead of killing him

Why?.......One less thug to deal with later on......Was his life worth twelve dollars?.....Seems a little high.

i stole stuff from the grocery store often when i was young.  you saying i was worth less than $12?

thanks a lot, bro.  what happened to redemption and forgiveness?  what happened to our high Christian principles?

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2013 9:23:34 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 30, 2013 22:59:03 GMT -5 mtman said:

Why?.......One less thug to deal with later on......Was his life worth twelve dollars?.....Seems a little high.

i stole stuff from the grocery store often when i was young.  you saying i was worth less than $12?

thanks a lot, bro.  what happened to redemption and forgiveness?  what happened to our high Christian principles?

From the OP: The station reports Corpus Christi police said a known gang member

Now, I don't think the guy should have used deadly force in this situation over 1 case of beer....but knowing the guy was a KNOWN gang member to local law enforcement I certainly don't feel bad for the guy that got killed in this situation.

I'll look at it this way: One less known gang member off the streets....and quite possibly a trigger happy store owner.

[workpublic]

now we're morally defending gangbangers? come on. odds are he got away with a lot more bad stuff before his run ended. he wasn't murdered, he was killed committing a crime. he rolled the dice and lost. live by the sword......

welcome to the jungle

[EVT1]

No one is defending gangbangers- this is about the actions of a store owner.  Let's not go down into Zim territory and blame the victim- and anyway did the store owner know he was a gangbanger?  If he did he could have just told the cops who it was and had him arrested and got his beer back.

What if it was some HS kid that stole a candy bar?  I just do not understand the thought process of people that think it is ok to kill another person when there is no imminent threat to themselves or others. 

[zibazinski]

I think of all the potential crimes this thug now won't commit and think hooray!

[frankq]

Maybe Swamp can weigh in on this: Chapter 9 Penal Code. State of Texas. Defense of property, static or movable is apparently discussed here. Could be the defense that he uses. $35K bail seems a little light for a "murderer". Especially in a state that fries convicts like they do....

www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm‎

[workpublic]

If he did he could have just told the cops who it was and had him arrested and got his beer back.

snitches get stitches...

there is no imminent threat

gang bangers are constant "imminent threats" to everybody around them

What if it was some HS kid that stole a candy bar?

what part of "known gang banger" don't you get in this case?

when you live, work in the jungle, you know the animals.

[kcladyjane]

Oct 1, 2013 9:23:34 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 30, 2013 22:59:03 GMT -5 mtman said:

Why?.......One less thug to deal with later on......Was his life worth twelve dollars?.....Seems a little high.

i stole stuff from the grocery store often when i was young.  you saying i was worth less than $12?

thanks a lot, bro.  what happened to redemption and forgiveness?  what happened to our high Christian principles?

The gangbanger was 39.  I wouldn't call that "young".  He knew it was wrong to steal it and figured the store owner wouldn't do anything about it.  He was wrong.  I don't feel bad for the gangbanger.  I personally probably wouldn't have shot him, but then again if the gangbanger did it once he would probably come back and try it again.

[fairlycrazy23]

Oct 1, 2013 15:40:24 GMT -5 workpublic said:

If he did he could have just told the cops who it was and had him arrested and got his beer back.

snitches get stitches...

there is no imminent threat

gang bangers are constant "imminent threats" to everybody around them

What if it was some HS kid that stole a candy bar?

what part of "known gang banger" don't you get in this case?

when you live, work in the jungle, you know the animals.

On the surface, it certainly seems excessive, however, going with the gang banger part, it could be that he thought if he reported the gang banger to the cops, they would come back and kill him.

[EVT1]

Oct 1, 2013 15:40:24 GMT -5 workpublic said:

If he did he could have just told the cops who it was and had him arrested and got his beer back.

snitches get stitches...

there is no imminent threat

gang bangers are constant "imminent threats" to everybody around them

What if it was some HS kid that stole a candy bar?

what part of "known gang banger" don't you get in this case?

when you live, work in the jungle, you know the animals.

So you are saying it should be up to individuals to decide who is an animal or not and proceed to exterminate them at will?

What part of the victim is irrelevant do you not get?


Maybe he just didn't like the guy and planted a six pack on him after shooting him in the back   

[EVT1]

Oct 1, 2013 16:08:16 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

Oct 1, 2013 15:40:24 GMT -5 workpublic said:

snitches get stitches...



gang bangers are constant "imminent threats" to everybody around them


what part of "known gang banger" don't you get in this case?

when you live, work in the jungle, you know the animals.

On the surface, it certainly seems excessive, however, going with the gang banger part, it could be that he thought if he reported the gang banger to the cops, they would come back and kill him.

Ummmm- you don't think killing a gang member might invite some retaliation?  Was shooting the guy really the smart choice here- ESPECIALLY if he was a gang member?  I bet the guy didn't know who he was and just wanted to play vigilante- now he's up shit creek- whether it's a shank in the joint or an AK-47 drive by.  Think I'd let the beer go.

[mtman]

Oct 1, 2013 15:11:09 GMT -5 workpublic said:

he was killed committing a crime. he rolled the dice and lost.

Well said.

[frankq]

Maybe taking the beer wasn't the real crime. Maybe this has been an ongoing thing between this store owner and this guy and his "bros". Maybe there is a history not mentioned in the couple of paragraphs from a newspaper. Maybe this store owner was in fear every day. Maybe these gangbangers have been using his store as their own personal pantry. Maybe the storeowner got tired of living in fear every day and just snapped. You don't know, so why don't we let the details come out before we call this guy a cold blooded killer. Maybe there is a better reason he shot the guy than the taking of some beer. But then again, the facts are really not the issue to some people as we've seen on other threads. Better to decide one's fate from reading a news story than through trial. I'll remind you that the bail is $35K. That means $3500 and you're out after posting some collateral with the bondsman, Pretty light for a "murderer". Let's see how it plays out.

[frankq]

Zimmy got by with murder,

No....he didn't. He was arrested to appease civil rights whiners. He was tried. He was found not-guilty by ALL the jurors. It was found to be a case of self defense. Let it go......

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2013 15:18:31 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

No one is defending gangbangers- this is about the actions of a store owner.  Let's not go down into Zim territory and blame the victim- and anyway did the store owner know he was a gangbanger?  If he did he could have just told the cops who it was and had him arrested and got his beer back.

What if it was some HS kid that stole a candy bar?  I just do not understand the thought process of people that think it is ok to kill another person when there is no imminent threat to themselves or others. 

the victim as you put it was a thief

he was not a KID...he was an adult

so stealing $ 12 is ok then?

what about $ 1200

what about $ 12000

he was a criminal......betcha no one tries to ripoff this guy again

and as far a the police.....you think they give a shit about your little business getting robbed of $ 12

they got bigger fish to fry......

i have zero issue with what this guy did......

[mtman]

Oct 1, 2013 19:46:17 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Oct 1, 2013 16:08:16 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

On the surface, it certainly seems excessive, however, going with the gang banger part, it could be that he thought if he reported the gang banger to the cops, they would come back and kill him.

  Think I'd let the beer go.

You should post your address......So any thug that wants......Can come and take your stuff.

[Deleted]

Oct 2, 2013 8:27:35 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

We just had a man in our community get convicted of murder because he chased a car load of punks and shot at them, wounding two and killing one.
This because they came onto his property, for the second time, and stole his driveway lights. 
I predict that we are going to be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing.
The prosecution wouldn't want me on any of these juries.

Okay....that guys an idiot.

Now...I'm guessing those "punks" think twice before doing stupid shit like that again...but the guy just needed to call the cops...get the license plate number and let the cops deal with it....or not.

He was convicted because chasing them in your car and shooting at them is considered public endagerment. I understand he was "protecting" his property...but that stopped the minute he got in his car and started chasing them on public roads.

[Deleted]

Oct 2, 2013 9:39:09 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Oct 2, 2013 9:31:47 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Okay....that guys an idiot.

Now...I'm guessing those "punks" think twice before doing stupid shit like that again...but the guy just needed to call the cops...get the license plate number and let the cops deal with it....or not.

He was convicted because chasing them in your car and shooting at them is considered public endagerment. I understand he was "protecting" his property...but that stopped the minute he got in his car and started chasing them on public roads.

I agree, but can see his frustration in that the cops didn't do anything the first time. Around our area if law enforcement does happen to catch them, all they get is a slap on the wrist and they're back at it.
Someone just posted on FB that they witnessed some creeps pull up to their warming car, that was setting in their driveway. If the poster hadn't stepped outside to confront them, he would have been walking to his work. 

Oh I definitely get it. There's a reason the saying: "When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away!" is so prevalent. And of course...stolen driveway lights aren't quite tops on the list of priorities. It's hard to make money that way....so instead they are stopping someone on the street for failure to use a turn signal or improper lane change....you know...the important stuff. $$$$

[Deleted]

The next gang member heading out to pick up some free beer might think twice before grabbing and running, thinking that police response times gives him (her) a window of opportunity.  This is a definate deterrent to future criminal activity.  Get a job, buy your beer.

[zibazinski]

[workpublic]

I bet the guy didn't know who he was and just wanted to play vigilante-

that's where our versions of reality separate.

store owners in gang areas know who the gang members are. sometimes they are relatives.
gang members have a penchant to stand out like sore thumbs. they are covered in gang tats, wear gang colors, graffiti tag their turf, throw gang signs and sometimes out right tell you who/what they are.

imho anyone wearing gang clothes, tats should be arrested on site(for being in a gang) any reasonable person and all of law enforcement know that gang affiliation = extremely, nonsensical, violent criminal

[workpublic]

Oct 2, 2013 14:48:26 GMT -5 workpublic said:

I bet the guy didn't know who he was and just wanted to play vigilante-

that's where our versions of reality separate.

store owners in gang areas know who the gang members are. sometimes they are relatives.
gang members have a penchant to stand out like sore thumbs. they are covered in gang tats, wear gang colors, graffiti tag their turf, throw gang signs and sometimes out right tell you who/what they are.

imho anyone wearing gang clothes, tats should be arrested on site(for being in a gang) any reasonable person and all of law enforcement know that gang affiliation = extremely, nonsensical, violent criminal. aka savage

[djAdvocate]

Oct 1, 2013 15:27:32 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I think of all the potential crimes this thug now won't commit and think hooray!

think of all of the potential good he might have done, and don't cheer so boldly.  or, to put it another way:

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

[billisonboard]

Oct 2, 2013 11:11:07 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

The next gang member heading out to pick up some free beer might think twice before grabbing and running, thinking that police response times gives him (her) a window of opportunity.  This is a definate deterrent to future criminal activity.  Get a job, buy your beer.

Grabbing and running, which leaves the store owner able to shoot you, was demonstrated to be not such a good idea. The law abiding citizen sees the shooting as a deterrent to crime. The criminal sees that a pipe along side the owner's head solves the problem nicely.

[frankq]

think of all of the potential good he might have done, and don't cheer so boldly. or, to put it another way:

Didn't look like a whole lot of potential good brewing to me......