INSURANCE ~ What kinds do you have?

[sil]

Health x4 people
Dental x4 people
Vision x 4 people
Life x 2 people
LTD x 2 people
STD x 2 people.....that sounds kinda bad, huh?
Auto x 2 cars
Rental insurance

For those who "self-insure" do you mean you set aside money for possible expenses, or is this just a fancy way of saying pay out of pocket?

[tractor]

Homeowners, car (4 of them), Health, Long-term disability, short-term disability, life, vision, dental, umbrella liability.

It's no wonder the insurance companies make so much money.

[phil5185]

just a fancy way of saying pay out of pocket?

That is what I do (pay out of pocket). Eg, I never buy extended car warranties, appliance repair insurance, dental, etc. So when something breaks I pay for it out of income or EF, no special savings funds. But, indirectly, our SP500 Taxable Account contains the money that we don't spend on insurance premiums.

[TrixAre4Kids]

Health
Dental
Vision
STD
LTD
Life
Above are through my employer, I pay directly for:
Homeowners
Auto
Fire Policy (for rental condo)
Umbrella

[cronewitch]

Home
Vehicle
Health free from work
Dental free from work

I don't need disability or life insurance because I am old enough to quit working if I am disabled and have assets to cover my final cost and have no dependents.

[exafchick]

Home owners
Life
Dental/vision (paid for by employer)
short term disability (paid for by employer)
Long term disability
long term care
Auto
Health (paid by government since i am retired military)

[Peace Of Mind]

We have....

Health Insurance
Life Insurance
Vision Insurance
Homeowner's Insurance
Auto Insurance
Short Term Disability Insurance
Long Term Disability Insurance
Flood Insurance

I think that's all.

[telephus44]

I have:
Life Insurance (but need more)
Health Insurance
Dental (I have self-insured for this before, but currently makes more sense to get this from my employer)
Auto Insurance
Home Owners

....and a stupid "Accident Insurance" policy from Aflac. I keep meaning to cancel it, but last time I tried I had to wait for open enrollment again. I signed up when I was younger and dumber.

[TrixAre4Kids]

Karma for you Exafchick

[Deleted]

I have
*life ($150,000 paid by work/$150,000 that I pay for)
*health
*homeowner's
*automobile
*dental (paid by work)
*long-term disability (paid by work)
*professional
*umbrella (adds some additional professional liability which is why we purchased it)

I ought to have a long-term care policy, but I simply can't save for retirement and pay the premiums for long-term care. I chose saving for retirement. Remember that my annual income is $60,000. It only goes so far.

[formerexpat]

STD x 2 people.....that sounds kinda bad, huh?

At least you're not spreading it

Health
Dental
Vision
Life
Auto
Umbrella
STD and LTD
Legal
AD&D
Homeowners
Mortgage ins since FHA loan
Title ins for buyer
Jewelry

through employer / employment

Supp Life
Supp life for children for burial costs [because it was so cheap, will eliminate when they're a few years old]
Business accident ins
unemployment insurance [federal / state]
social security [my deferred annuity, at least for now]
medicare [prepayment for future medical insurance / care]
workers comp

warranty / insurance
various warranties that come with a new construction home
Pre-owned Honda power train warranty
new Honda warranty
4 year in home warranty on HD / 3D LED tv [was "free"]

I'm surprised [or didn't see that any one noted it] that no one has an ROP rider on either their term life or disability insurance. I didn't choose the ROP on mine but am surprised that no one else did. [/size]

[runewell]

Health, Dental, Vision
Life (About 1M)
Auto 250K liab + 1M Umb = $1.25M
Home 300K liab + 1M Umb = $1.3M
STD,LTD

[Deleted]

I have

Health
Dental
Homeowners (plus earthquake since I live in one of *those* zones)
Auto
Life

Life insurance.... my employer pays for insurance that pays 1 year of my salary plus some stuff I can't think of right now. I pay a little more (through my employer) to make it my salary times 6 plus the extra stuff.

I pay my vision costs out of pocket. I really need to get disability insurance, but I haven't yet.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Home + quake
Auto x 3
Health x 4
Dental x 4
Vision x 4
Life x 2
Sup. Life x 2
LTD
STD
ADD

The life and ADD policy is paid for by my employer, but it's only up to my annual salary for me and half that for my wife, hence the supplemental life.

[sapphire12]

I have auto, home, and health insurance.

[formerexpat]

Homeowners, car (4 of them), Health, Long-term disability, short-term disability, life, vision, dental, umbrella liability.

It's no wonder the insurance companies make so much money.

Explain to us how much money insurance companies make compared to other industries please. [/size]

[Agatha]

Health Insurance
Auto Insurance (2 vehicles)
House Insurance

I want to add Disability to that when I get a new job, whether the employer offers it or not. My old employer offered only short term and I would feel a lot more comfortable with some long term as well. Life insurance I don't really need as my son is grown and will inherit from me anyway.

Does anyone consider burial insurance or prearrangement as insurance?

[tiptap]

Dental Insurance
Homeowner's Insurance
Rental Insurance
Health Insurance
Life Insurance
Vehicle Insurance
Umbrella Liability
Earthquake Insurance

[schildi]

Feb 19, 2011 22:31:04 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Homeowners, car (4 of them), Health, Long-term disability, short-term disability, life, vision, dental, umbrella liability.

It's no wonder the insurance companies make so much money.

Explain to us how much money insurance companies make compared to other industries please.

[/size][/quote]

This sounds like a trick question.
Are you talking about the profit margin here, expat, or the absolute numbers, or the EPS, or even profit per employee as another example? Some of those are rather meaningless when comparing an insurance company to other industries, and somehow I have the feeling those are the numbers you'd pick for a comparison. Tell us!
BTW, tractor never said "compared to other industries" either.

[formerexpat]

Are you talking about the profit margin here, expat, or the absolute numbers, or the EPS, or even profit per employee as another example? Some of those are rather meaningless when comparing an insurance company to other industries, and somehow I have the feeling those are the numbers you'd pick for a comparison. Tell us!

If someone is going to proclaim that insurance companies make so much money, I expect them to adequately explain how this money is made via the insurance model, and more importantly, if it is such a great money maker, why more people aren't heavier weighted to the industry. Why aren't those other people making all that money via stock ownership in insurance companies? Care to take a crack at it? Pick whatever number is important to you. PM is fairly important in the insurance industry, as is ROE but if you like other metrics, then have a ball. [/size]

[schildi]

Expat, try total profit per employee. The leading insurer in the U.S. makes significantly more than the leading tech / semiconductor company, and it's not exactly peanuts. But as I said, not really a problem, imo, just a fact, and I would not say that insurance companies make little money. The semiconductor company's profit margin is waaayyy higher, btw.
IMO, PM is less important for insurance companies as they don't produce anything.

[formerexpat]

Expat, try total profit per employee.

Just out of curiosity, why in a business that predominantly uses independent agents that are not considered employees [allowing for quick reduction of expenses when necessary], would you use this metric? A lot of insurance companies also decentralize other components of their business model for expense control purposes, reducing the size of their reported employees.

BTW, who is the leading insurer in the US? What product are you basing the designation on?

IMO, PM is less important for insurance companies as they don't produce anything.

Really? If I were to turn health insurance into a manufacturing type of income statement, it would largely look like this:

Sales - $100 [premiums]
Inv income - $3 [inv income earned on premiums before claims payment]
COGs - $85 [benefits paid]
Admin / operating exp - $15 [claims administration, including fraud detection eats up a large chunk of the $15]
Profit margin - $3
Tax - $1
PAT - $2

Gross PM = 3%
AT PM = 2%

This metric is called the combined ratio in insurance and is VERY important. Technically, the combined ratio excludes investment income, but it is relied on heavily to manage break even / profitability in the property & casualty lines as well as health insurance.

[/size]

[schildi]

Feb 21, 2011 13:19:31 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Just out of curiosity, why in a business that predominantly uses independent agents that are not considered employees [allowing for quick reduction of expenses when necessary], would you use this metric?

Because in this example, for the semiconductor company, their distribution network is not counted either. The insurance agents are independent, and are making money as such. Just like the distribution channels or computer makers downstream for the semiconductor company in my example. The employees of Dell, HP and Best Buy are not part of the Semiconductor company, same as with the agents for the insurance. That part was easy. Does that explanation satisfy your curiosity?
It's not like how you want to make it look like, that the insurance companies are in the poor house just because their profit margins are less than those in other industries.
As I said before, there is nothing wrong with this, but your pounding on profit margins and explaining how the insurance CEO sleeps under the bridge is getting old. ;D
There are other things than the profit margins of the insurance companies that could be fixed to lower cost. Like the cost of litigation, and the hidden cost of litigation. But that's a different story ....
Out of curiosity, are you working in the insurance industry?

[formerexpat]

I do work in the insurance industry [which I've stated before] but your post predominately seems to focus on health insurance; at least in your recommendation that the cost of litigation could / should be a focus, which I do agree with the recommendation. However, I don't work in the health insurance industry.

I never said anything about CEO's in this discussion [we've already had discussions of their position compared to their peers]; I was trying to discuss financial analysis of an industry as a whole and how one comes to the conclusion that the insurance companies make a lot of money.

Sounds similar to the people who come here and say the oil companies make so much money. Well, maybe in absolute numbers, the number might look big but when you break it down to it being about $0.08 per gallon and break it down further to being about $0.01 per gallon that is sold retail here in the US, it doesn't sound like they're making so much money then, does it?

I also don't know any insurance company executive that considers profit per employee a meaningful number - that's why I ask.

Why is profit per employee so important in the semiconductor industry? Is this the industry you're in? Is that what most industry insider financial executives use? I would have imagined EBITA would have been pretty important in this industry myself.

[schildi]

Expat, I would not care very much if I consistently made a net profit (net income) of $5 million with a 50% net profit margin on $10 million sales or with a 10% margin on $50 million in sales.

[formerexpat]

Expat, I would not care very much if I consistently made a net profit (net income) of $5 million with a 50% net profit margin on $10 million sales or with a 10% margin on $50 million in sales.

Maybe the shareholders would care considering the risks that the company assumes. I suspect, regardless of the industry, your shareholders want to be compensated accordingly to the risk they assume?

But maybe you're right - we should calculate profit per sunny days in the year and our shareholders will be fine with that.

[/size]

[schildi]

Feb 22, 2011 10:38:25 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Expat, I would not care very much if I consistently made a net profit (net income) of $5 million with a 50% net profit margin on $10 million sales or with a 10% margin on $50 million in sales.

Maybe the shareholders would care considering the risks that the company assumes. I suspect, regardless of the industry, your shareholders want to be compensated accordingly to the risk they assume?

But maybe you're right - we should calculate profit per sunny days in the year and our shareholders will be fine with that.

[/size][/quote]

Sounds good to me. ;D That is a metric that at least can be fudged a bit here and there, making that CEO (and his insurance company) look REALLY poor!

[hubertdavis]

I have home owners
Car
Umbrella
Health
Dental
Apart from umbrella, home and car insurance which I pay for myself, the health and dental are covered by my employer.