Corporate "Culture" Rant

[Sam_2.0]

Our company is big on "culture". We have special culture teams (which I was volun-told to be on - basically a glorified party planner), the CEO spreads the gospel of positive culture everywhere he goes, and there is even a culture metric on our annual performance reviews. You know, "Culture Eats Strategy for Breakfast" and all that jazz.

But it's all just a bunch of BS!!

Oh sure, our group is "diverse". We have different races, ethnicities, genders, religions, and sexual identities. So we hit all of the required check marks. And we plan our monthly potlucks and social events, volunteering opportunities, and baby/wedding showers. But it's just lip-service.

Today I saw the most passive aggressive note in the breakroom about people leaving dishes in the sink instead of loading them in the dishwasher. We rotate kitchen duty and apparently whoever had KP thought it was dumb to have to load up other people's dishes.

Honestly, I don't think anyone intends to take advantage of others. Dishes get left when someone is running to a meeting, or maybe lunch got "baked" on in the microwave and needs to soak. Or maybe the dishwasher was already running, so the remaining dishes were rinsed and stacked to wait for the next load. Who really cares? When it's your turn to clean the kitchen then you just load them in with the rest of the random general use kitchen items that have to get washed every day (trays under the coffee carafes, etc).

But the big problem is that people feel like we are keeping score. The same thing we have talked about on WIR about keeping score for household chores between spouses/partners/roommates. Once we start assigning scores and keeping track of who does what to try to make it even, then no one wins because it will never be even and someone will always feel like they got the short end of the stick.

So for all the money and time our company spends on "culture", it apparently was undone by a pile of dirty plates in the kitchen. Good lord, I want to stick a note next to it that says come and get me to load the dishes if they refuse to do it. I sit by the kitchen and I don't mind. Hell, I load a million dishes every day at home that I didn't dirty. It won't kill me to do a few more at work. And if it keeps people from getting in a pissing match over dirty flatware then it is worth it.

[milee]

It's odd, because usually I have the attitude that at work you do pretty much whatever is needed even if it's not in your "job description", but I have to admit that I'd have a problem with having to clean up a kitchen at work; I wear a suit for a reason and it's not to be scrubbing up someone else's baked on mess.  It's not that I'm too good to do manual labor.  I've done my share of nasty jobs and been glad to have them and at home I do most of the dishes. 

So maybe it's irrational, but I would be fairly pissed at having to do dishes at work where I was a professional.  Probably party because I clean up after myself and expect others to as well and partly because it would rankle me to feel like I was being treated like a maid for other grown adults.  I wouldn't leave a passive/aggressive note about it, but unless there were some seriously awesome things about the company and no available work elsewhere, having to clean the company kitchen would be enough to make me look for another job.

I'm going to have to do some thinking about why I feel so strongly about this one because I'm not one to balk at work and am always taking on tough projects, so it's not about the task, it's somehow about the symbolism or implied meaning...

[Sam_2.0]

Yeah, it's not a full-out clean the kitchen, just more of a pick up after ourselves thing (coffee, dishes we've used, wipe the messes on the counter that we made). The cleaning crew does the really big jobs (moping floors, etc). Only the executive floor is exempt from this - all other work locations pretty much have to clean up after themselves and we rotate duties between teams so no one has to do it more than 1 day every 3-4 months.

I guess it's not really just the kitchen thing that is bothering me, but this is the most concrete example I can find. I really feel like all of this "kumbaya  culture" stuff is bunk. I don't care if we have a potluck or happy hour with co-workers. I come here to do my job and then I go home. I am cordial with people I work with and have made a few friends, but in general I don't go to work to hang out with my buddies.

[milee]

But if everybody is picking up after him/herself, why would I need to clean up?  The fact that there needs to be a rotating assignment of cleaners implies that people aren't cleaning up after themselves, which is what would bug me - it's rude.  If I've been tidy and considerate, the last thing I'd want to do is go in and clean up after some slob that left a mess.  And it is - IMHO - inappropriate for a professional company to ask employees to do janitorial work on a rotating basis, especially if some of the employees are exempt from the tasks, which indicates the company knows full well "important" people in the company don't do general janitorial clean up.

And for many years, I've been one of the execs, so guess I'd be exempt, but that also would bug me.  On one hand, you have the boss saying KP is no big deal, so you should just do it and not complain, but on the other hand, he exempts himself from it?  Way to inspire people... do what I say, not what I do.  Because your work is beneath me.

Guess cleaning up after others and the message of inequality of status implied is a touchy subject for me.  Who knew something so small (that I do all the time at home as well) would be such a deal breaker?  Weird.

Oh, and getting back to the "culture" thing, your CEO is a bit of an idiot if he thinks you can create culture with words.  Culture is a result of words, actions and the people involved.  He can talk all he wants, but if his actions - like making only the peons clean the kitchen - piss people off or make them feel that they aren't valued, his words do nothing.  If he really wanted to send a message about having a good team culture, he'd pitch in and take some turns at KP himself or have a janitorial service do it. 

[happyscooter]

I worked a temp job at a company that required one of the depts to clean the breakroom every day.  So there was a calendar with each person's name on it and they had to go down after lunch and wipe off the tables, counters, chairs, inside of microwave and anything else that needed to be done.  Didn't have to sweep or take out the garbage.  None of the other depts had to do it even though the whole company used the breakroom. 

[wvugurl26]

It seems like the person on kitchen duty is more cleaning up the common use stuff like the coffeemakers? I see milee's point but in my current job something like this would be way down the list of stuff I'd be complaining about.

At my job in public accounting, we were responsible for keeping the kitchen clean. Everyone cleaned up after themselves and those who drank coffee kept the coffee pot clean. Then again we also had one single bathroom for all the staff on my floor.

[Miss Tequila]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be scrubbing someone else's dishes.  Everywhere I have ever worked the policy was "your momma don't work here, clean up after yourself".  I like that policy.  I am way too busy to scrub someone's dish because they thought THEY were too busy to do it. 

[garion2003]

I work in an office environment - there are about 25 or so people on our floor and we all share a common kitchen (fridge, microwave, toaster oven, sink, and cabinets). The kicker is that this kitchen is only accessed by entering OUR office space (bad planning when they remodeled the building).

So not only do we have people constantly coming in and out, we also deal with their crap:

- leaving a stinky can (say tuna) in the trash)
- dishes in the sink isn't much of a deal, people let things soak but generally clean up

But my coworker had to send out a nasty email after someone used the toaster oven, put something on the pan that dripped grease all over it - and didn't clean up.

One of our other coworkers put his bagel on the pan and started to toast it - of course the grease began smoking. We barely avoided the fire alarm going off, let alone and out and out fire. And then our offices smelled like nasty old burned grease all day.

So she sent out an email to the floor that was gentle in tone but basically said PLEASE CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELVES for the good of all.

We'll see.

[Deleted]

We used to have kitchen clean up duty in the old office. Once we moved to our current space we all agreed to clean up after ourselves. Until people didn't. Someone hung up a sign right over the sink that says "Wash your own dishes. Silverware too." and that has seemed to keep stuff out of the sink.

As for the rest of it, it seems to get taken care of when it gets too gross for someone. I have cleaned out the microwave because it was too gross for me to even want to put my food in it to cook it.  I have also cleaned out the toaster when it smells like something is burning when you use it. 

There's less than 20 people here so you'd THINK the place wouldn't get so bad, but it does. 

[Deleted]

Kitchen clean up is an ongoing topic here too. It is amazing how it can be so dirty when when everyone cleans up after themselves and their visitors.  

ETA - I find the topic such a PITA that I have boycotted the kitchen. I only go in to get coffee or water and I keep my coffee mug and water glass on my desk. When someone tries to talk about it at a staff meeting I cut it off and say "talk directly to the culprit. You know who it is and I am fed up with sitting through these clean up the kitchen lectures".

[sarcasticgirl]

It probably took them longer to write the note than to just pick up the dishes.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards

[Deleted]

I don't get why people feel the need to clean dishes they see left out. Why don't they just leave them there? It's not like someone left them on their desk.

[zibazinski]

We have this going on right now. A few women seem to think that other women should put their coffee cups and paper plates into the trash after they leave them laying around. As in "do you think your momma works here? " it's been mentioned, we know who does it, and the nice part about our new president being less than nice is that she has no issue calling them out publicly on it!

[resolution]

Sept 24, 2013 17:53:39 GMT -5 @davebo said:

I don't get why people feel the need to clean dishes they see left out. Why don't they just leave them there? It's not like someone left them on their desk.

Because if left long enough they will get moldy and the kitchen will stink to the point that no one can use it. In my old office there was a policy that dirty dishes left in the sink would be thrown out at COB when the office was locked up for the night. The policy was started due to a disgusting mess of moldy dishes that were left in the sink for weeks while everyone was in a pissing match over who should wash them.

[Deleted]

Sept 24, 2013 20:15:10 GMT -5 resolution said:

Sept 24, 2013 17:53:39 GMT -5 @davebo said:

I don't get why people feel the need to clean dishes they see left out. Why don't they just leave them there? It's not like someone left them on their desk.

Because if left long enough they will get moldy and the kitchen will stink to the point that no one can use it. In my old office there was a policy that dirty dishes left in the sink would be thrown out at COB when the office was locked up for the night. The policy was started due to a disgusting mess of moldy dishes that were left in the sink for weeks while everyone was in a pissing match over who should wash them.

I guess that's my point. If they are sitting there uncleaned, then just throw them out.  No sense getting all huffy about it and typing up some note for everyone to see.

[Deleted]

In my first teaching job, not only did I have to sweep my room every day, but I had to purchase the broom and dustpan to do it.  Even at my affluent district, they have cut custodial service so much that most of us do all the cleaning in our room except for taking the garbage out.  That's wiping the desktop with Lysol (which I provide), cleaning the board with special cleaner (which I provide), and hunting down a vacuum cleaner if the floor needs vacuuming.

I don't see a note about washing up after yourself as passive-aggressive, but maybe I don't understand the term.  I thought it was when you pretended something didn't bother you, but made the person figure out why you were so upset.  Leaving a note saying, "Please rinse your dishes and place in dishwasher" seems fairly clear to me.

Anyway, I don't see the problem.  But then everything is in my job description.   One year they decided that the teachers would bus the lunchroom every day since the kids wouldn't clean up after themselves.  We pushed trashcans, picked up their left trays, and wiped tables.  Other years we were assigned to file, work in the library, answer the phone, and so on.  A teacher is a terrible thing to waste.

I have way more tolerance than some of you guys have.

[Deleted]

Sept 24, 2013 20:15:10 GMT -5 resolution said:

Sept 24, 2013 17:53:39 GMT -5 @davebo said:

In my old office there was a policy that dirty dishes left in the sink would be thrown out at COB when the office was locked up for the night.

yeah, I've been in companies where they had a policy that the refrigerator in the break room would be cleaned out every Friday; people would leave stuff in it for weeks and it would get awful.

[milee]

Sept 24, 2013 21:16:27 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

In my first teaching job, not only did I have to sweep my room every day, but I had to purchase the broom and dustpan to do it.  Even at my affluent district, they have cut custodial service so much that most of us do all the cleaning in our room except for taking the garbage out.  That's wiping the desktop with Lysol (which I provide), cleaning the board with special cleaner (which I provide), and hunting down a vacuum cleaner if the floor needs vacuuming.

I often had to do basic tidying like this in my own office.  If I had to do those things in my own office, I wouldn't mind.  None of them are the types of things that ruin a suit and they're not things that are cleaning up after others that I'm not responsible for.  If I were a teacher, I'd probably have students help with some of it, plus I wouldn't be wearing a suit so wouldn't be as concerned about ruining clothes.

I don't see a note about washing up after yourself as passive-aggressive, but maybe I don't understand the term.  I thought it was when you pretended something didn't bother you, but made the person figure out why you were so upset.  Leaving a note saying, "Please rinse your dishes and place in dishwasher" seems fairly clear to me.

The passive-aggressive part comes in because IMHO the person writing the note is actually upset with the CEO for making him/her do the kitchen cleaning, not the person who is leaving the dishes.  Instead of addressing the gripe with the company - where it belongs - they're choosing to address it to the other employees.  Also, usually in an office environment, everybody knows who the slob is, but instead of directly addressing that one person and risk getting in a spat, they put up a note to everybody including the 99% who are already cleaning up after themselves.

Anyway, I don't see the problem.  But then everything is in my job description.   One year they decided that the teachers would bus the lunchroom every day since the kids wouldn't clean up after themselves.  We pushed trashcans, picked up their left trays, and wiped tables.  Other years we were assigned to file, work in the library, answer the phone, and so on.  A teacher is a terrible thing to waste.

I have way more tolerance than some of you guys have.

You're not more tolerant, you're just tolerant about different things.  How many threads have you started complaining about having to spend less than $100 to buy books for the class you teach? Even when I was first starting accounting and earning less than I was as a waitress, the industry publications and continued professional education requirements cost over $2k per year and it was just part of the job we all did and paid for.

[Shooby]

  The only person i worry about controlling is me.  If other people want to get into pissing contests at work about everything under the sun, well they can knock themselves out.  I am at work to do my job, first and foremost.  The rest of that stuff, i don't care.  Yes, i will go "rah rah" with the team building exercises and do my best to get along with everyone at work.  But, i will focus on my job.
And, i am not interested in the passive aggressive self appointed boss types.  Frankly, i just ignore them.

[Deleted]

I've only worked in really small offices (under 10 people) or really big offices (probably about 100/floor and we had about 45 floors). In the small office we all cleaned up after ourselves. But in the bigger offices there were people to do it. The admins would clean out the fridge on Fridays and there were stickers if you didn't want something thrown away (like coffee creamer). There were signs by the sink and I'm sure some people left stuff there, but I guess I haven't really seen any major problems.

I don't know, while I don't think it should be my job to clean up after other people, if I had to clean up the kitchen once every 3 months, it wouldn't be a big deal. Unless I had to do things like mop floors and clean windows. But straighten up? No, I wouldn't have an issue. then again, I'd probably just throw everything in the sink away. . People would learn....eventually.

[michelyn8]

I remember when I was teenager and told my aunt that I was going to work as a secretary when I finished high school (was taking the votech classes for it).  She told me I didn't want to do that because I'd have to clean bathrooms and wash dishes.  Apparently, that was or had been part of her job as an office manager.  I just looked her straight in the eye and told her that no, I wouldn't.  And now after over 25 years of working, I have only cleaned a bathroom once at work (I was the only one in the office that used it and no steady cleaning person) and washed a few coffee pots because I thought they needed it. 

I became a "professional" so I wouldn't have to do those things for a living or wear myself out in a factory like my father.  I have no issue with making coffee, washing a coffee pot or straightening up but I don't take office jobs because I want to work as a maid/janitor.  Besides, I'm funny about food (appearance, smell, etc) and would probably end up puking in the trashcan if I had to deal with someone else's mess.  People in general can be very messy when they know someone else is going to be the one cleaning up behind them and I just don't handle that kind of selfishness very well. 

Around here, if I use a dish or utensil that's not disposable and not from home, I wash them when I'm done.  Others pile their stuff up in the sink for the cleaning lady and it can sit a few days.  YUK!!!!  No way I want to put my hands on that kind of mess without my cleaning gloves. 

To the OP: I find the rah rah stuff annoying too and have never put much stock into it.  Like you, work is work and I'll socialize when I'm off the clock.   Fortunately, where I work now does very little if any of that stuff.  To many liability issues and management is restricted in what they can give out before something has to be reported as taxable income. 

[thyme4change]

I worked at a place that had a dishwasher, and at first I thought it was so cool that there were real glasses and stuff.  We had an old-school admin who would do anything to keep that company running smoothly, including the time she went to the CEO's house and helped his wife cook a fancy inner for some potential investors.  When we got acquired, the new corporate office figured out she was gold, and moved her to Dallas.  Her "replacement" was a young gal with goals, but not a lot of common sense.  She refused to spend "all her time" cleaning the kitchen, so the whole thing went to hell in a short time.  Eventually, they just removed all of the real dishes and glasses and such and put paper cups in there.  It seemed like a real downgrade.

Since then, I have worked at several companies that weren't nearly as homey.  At these places, we aren't even gifted coffee or paper cups, and just about everyone takes care of their own stuff.  Every once in a while, someone will set a tupperware in the sink to soak, and forget about it and it will hang out for a while, and then people start getting violent.  Eventually the person remembers and grabs it.  After seeing both, I really think personal responsibility is best.  No dishwasher available - generally people will either use paper plates or wash their own bowl, dry it and put it away.

After listening to enough people piss and moan, I have taken it upon myself to buy dish soap every month.  When it is on sale, I buy it - usually a dollar.  A couple times a year I notice someone else buys a bottle.  Not sure if someone else gets reimbursed for that - but I don't care.  I will spend $10-$15 a year to not listen to people bitch about something so piddly.  

[milee]

At one of my corporate jobs, we had admins like the old-school admin you're describing, Thyme.  They were incredibly awesome and really weren't "secretaries", they were "administrative assistants" and totally would have done whatever it took to make the place work.  But they also got paid close to (and a few over) six figures and that was in the '90s.  They earned every penny and were worth every penny.  Win/win.

They knew when they were hired they would have to do things like tidy the kitchen and even do personal errands for the people they were assisting, so had a realistic job preview before even accepting the job.

[Deleted]

It probably took them longer to write the note than to just pick up the dishes.

People in general can be very messy when they know someone else is going to be the one cleaning up behind them

Yes, but writing the note was a one-time thing. If they hadn't done it they would be picking up dishes daily. 

[michelyn8]

Sept 25, 2013 7:31:04 GMT -5 milee said:

At one of my corporate jobs, we had admins like the old-school admin you're describing, Thyme.  They were incredibly awesome and really weren't "secretaries", they were "administrative assistants" and totally would have done whatever it took to make the place work.  But they also got paid close to (and a few over) six figures and that was in the '90s.  They earned every penny and were worth every penny.  Win/win.

They knew when they were hired they would have to do things like tidy the kitchen and even do personal errands for the people they were assisting, so had a realistic job preview before even accepting the job.

Back in the day, there was a career path for clerical workers and as you've pointed out, an administrative assistant was more than a secretary.  They truly were assistants to their manager handling administrative duties over a group - not clerical duties.  The best example I can think of for this is Ros in the movie 9 to 5.  And you're right, they knew what their job entailed when they accepted so didn't have the issues with running errands or tidying up that an admin today may have. 

Personally, I loved when I was asked to run errands.  It got me out of the office for a while.  Sitting in DMV for a couple hours to renew tags wasn't half as bad when you had a book and were basically getting paid to sit and read on company time. 

[zibazinski]

You should work at DFs company. They provide lunch for their employees every day. Mondays the admin asst shops for food for the week. In the summer they cook out once a week. In the winter it's take out once a week. There is a dishwasher and everyone puts their dishes in. On Friday it's run. I go in on weekends and take care of cat and I empty the dishwasher just because I know I get tired of doing it at home so it gives her a break.