Pima Co. settles Jose Guerena Lawsuit for $3.4 million

[OldCoyote]

What a miscarriage of justice,  Vanessa Guerena had sued for $20 million.  She should have received $40 million for the treatment she received, the total lies from the Sheriff Dept.

The actions of the detective in charge, the Judge that signed the warrant, the lies stated by the Police union Lawyer.

Most of all, the absolute effort of the Pima Co. Sheriff Dept. continued investigation to show guilt by association.
 

 

[zibazinski]

What are you talking about?

[billisonboard]

www.kvoa.com/news/lawsuit-settlement-deal-reached-in-death-of-jose-guerena/#_

[zibazinski]

Wow. 

[OldCoyote]

I'm going to start with a couple of lies from the Sheriff Dept.

Sheriff Dept. stated that Jose Guerena was shot because he fired on the SWAT team, bullets bouncing off the shields and door jam.  

This lie went on for four days.  Then it was announced that not only Jose Guerena not shot at the team , but his weapon was on safety!

At this point the Sheriff state that the two tour Iraq marine didn't know how to take the weapon of safety.  (Yea, right)

Sheriff state that Jose Guerena was part of an invasion crew, They had found part of a police uniform, bullet proof vests and guns!

Guess what, nothing illegal was found in Jose's House.  The police uniform was a Border Patrol hat,  the bulletproof vests were left over from his Marine enlistment, stored in the garage.

Jose Guerena had NO drugs in his system.

Here's a video of the raid.  Keep in mind that Jose guerena went from being sound asleep in bed after a very hard 12 shift at the mine, to being shot 22 times in 38 seconds.

[OldCoyote]

I'm having trouble finding the transcript of the conversation between the officers when they retreated to the armored truck.

Not a single officer said they seen a weapon,  what they did say was "did you see how he came around the corner"

even in the debriefing only one officer says anything about a weapon was only after much coaching by the Detective.

Remember Jose Guerena was in a dark house, down a long hallway. The Police were in bright daylight.

For those of you that would like to read more about this.

statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/category/jose-guerena-case/


 

[Deleted]

What I read indicated that family members were involved in the drug trafficking.  Guerena was not at fault, but it sounds like the police had reason to raid the house.  If those are facts (and who knows which agencies are providing actual facts) then the settlement was more than fair.

coyote - why on earth are you complaining about a settlement?  the two parties have AGREED when it goes to settlement, so apparently a couple million was enough for his family.

[OldCoyote]

Rock It, couple of reasons that I complain,  One is if you read thru the debriefing transcripts  the incompetence of everyone involved is incredible.

1. During the surveillance of the family, no was ever see around any marijuana or ever smoking a joint.  where are the drug sales or any probable cause.  It appears that 14 months between
the last surveillance and when the warrant was issued. The judge that signed the warrant  that was nothing more than a fishing expedition.  After this thing fell apart the judge sealed the warrant.

I want the people involved in this to be held accountable for their actions.  $3.4 million is not  a large enough amount for  the taxpayers to say "We cannot have police gunning down innocent citizens".

Honesty and ethics in law enforcement is what I expect,  We are not getting it.

I have met and spoke with Vanessa Guerena, Jose's wife.

 
 

 

[EVT1]

Amen- enough of these no knock military style raids (especially over drugs).  They should be in very few and extreme cases- not just a day at the office for the swat folks.  I would like to see the people involved personally held accountable in addition to the settlement.

[mtman]

Big deal......Just another dead Mexican drug dealer.....Settlement should have been $0.00

[Tennesseer]

Sept 21, 2013 17:06:18 GMT -5 mtman said:

Big deal......Just another dead Mexican drug dealer.....Settlement should have been $0.00

You know he was Mexican and not a U.S. citizen, how?  I am guessing he was a U.S. citizen because the linked article states he was a former marine.

[EVT1]

His mind was made up when he saw the name Jose- nothing else matters. 

[Tennesseer]

Of course it was.

[EVT1]

Even if he wasn't a Marine, or had something to do with drugs, or was just some 'Mexican' there is a thing called due process and these bullshit drug raids shit all over that idea.  There is almost no good reason for police to storm a house with weapons drawn if the person of interest is only a 'suspect' in something and the goal is to search for evidence. 

[OldCoyote]

If the judge had done his job the warrant would never been issued.

Here is a good summary of the warrant.  Sorry you have to scroll halfway down the page

link  statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2013/08/18/the-jose-guerena-case-update-5-3-a-preliminary-review/

[swamp]

You can read the warrant affidavit. It's crap. 

Apparently because he let his brother drive his truck and he had a lot of cars makes hima drug dealer. 

[Virgil Showlion]

We debated this earlier in a police shooting thread. Most agreed it was a flagrant abuse of authority.

What I don't get is the "She should have received $40 million for the treatment she received, the total lies from the Sheriff Dept." comment in the OP. This money is coming from Pima County taxpayers. Not the sheriff. Not the judge who issued the warrant. Not the SWAT team officers. And none of them gives a toot if it's a $3M settlement, a $10M settlement, or a $20M settlement. It's either a black mark on their record or it isn't.

You're speaking as though the amount of money taxpayers have to cough up to settle a lawsuit should be proportional to the degree of error. It should not. Settlements are meant to compensate. Even if Mr. Guerena pulled in $200K a year for the rest of his working life, he'd have made nowhere near $20 million.

"The Sheriff is incompetent, so let's screw the county taxpayers" seems like a lousy way to frame the discussion. And to call it "justice".

Justice would be an inquiry that resulted in criminal charges for any of the actors that breached their duty of care to the public.

[EVT1]

Sept 21, 2013 21:53:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

We debated this earlier in a police shooting thread. Most agreed it was a flagrant abuse of authority.

What I don't get is the "She should have received $40 million for the treatment she received, the total lies from the Sheriff Dept." comment in the OP. This money is coming from Pima County taxpayers. Not the sheriff. Not the judge who issued the warrant. Not the SWAT team officers. And none of them gives a toot if it's a $3M settlement, a $10M settlement, or a $20M settlement. It's either a black mark on their record or it isn't.

You're speaking as though the amount of money taxpayers have to cough up to settle a lawsuit should be proportional to the degree of error. It should not. Settlements are meant to compensate. Even if Mr. Guerena pulled in $200K a year for the rest of his working life, he'd have made nowhere near $20 million.

"The Sheriff is incompetent, so let's screw the county taxpayers" seems like a lousy way to frame the discussion. And to call it "justice".

Justice would be an inquiry that resulted in criminal charges for any of the actors that breached their duty of care to the public.

I think the point was that the damages should be higher to goad the taxpayers into making a change in the law.

There are two sides to the coin here- side one is compensation, side two is punitive. You are never going to have the 'actors that breached their duty of care' held for anything since their jobs have a qualified immunity- which leaves few choices to end this type of thing.

Besides- effing up the duty of care is just one element of negligence. 

[Virgil Showlion]

I think the point was that the damages should be higher to goad the taxpayers into making a change in the law.

What's the difference in the public's mind? $3 million, $10 million? A million bajillion? Nobody cares about two digits. That's 90% of the argument for private over public. People care about their own money, and sometimes--sometimes--figures compared side by side in a newspaper column. Other people's money? Public money? Unlimited. Nobody who wasn't upset by this debacle is suddenly going to become upset because the payout was $20 million instead of $3 million, except possibly the 6 people in the entire county who qualify as deficit hawks, or the people who despise the Guerena family for walking away with a mega-lottery win's worth of cold cash.

Am I missing something? Was the judge fired? Were the officers dismissed? Did the sheriff have to hand his deputies layoff notices because the $3 settlement required cutting back the force?

Or did the city pull $3 M out of an lawsuit insurance fund (or more likely, tack $3M onto the municipal deficit) and nobody cared less whether the amount was half that or twice that or ten times that?

The only ones being punished are the taxpayers, and most of them don't even know it.

[OldCoyote]

Virgil,  My hope was if the cost to the taxpayer was enough, it may bring about change.  But I think you maybe right.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio has lost over $43 million in lawsuits,  with the potential of another $50 million coming up.

he also misused $99 million in other funds.   They do not hold him accountable,  they just re-elect him again. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 21, 2013 23:47:35 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Virgil,  My hope was if the cost to the taxpayer was enough, it may bring about change.  But I think you maybe right.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio has lost over $43 million in lawsuits,  with the potential of another $50 million coming up.

he also misused $99 million in other funds.   They do not hold him accountable,  they just re-elect him again. 

In his case, the issue is more that they don't care he's being sued. Real or imagined, they see him as the only one willing to address a problem. Lawsuits are the price of doing business.

But in the sense that $43M, $50M, $99M are all meaningless figures to the public: absolutely.

[jkapp]

Sept 21, 2013 15:53:21 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Rock It, couple of reasons that I complain,  One is if you read thru the debriefing transcripts  the incompetence of everyone involved is incredible.

1. During the surveillance of the family, no was ever see around any marijuana or ever smoking a joint.  where are the drug sales or any probable cause.  It appears that 14 months between
the last surveillance and when the warrant was issued. The judge that signed the warrant  that was nothing more than a fishing expedition.  After this thing fell apart the judge sealed the warrant.

I want the people involved in this to be held accountable for their actions.  $3.4 million is not  a large enough amount for  the taxpayers to say "We cannot have police gunning down innocent citizens".

Honesty and ethics in law enforcement is what I expect,  We are not getting it.

I have met and spoke with Vanessa Guerena, Jose's wife.

 
 

 

Ironically, though, its the taxpayers paying the settlement.  No one at fault has to pay a dime from what I read...