Seattle, Ft. Worth cops drop ball- shooter had a history

[EVT1]

of gun incidents and mental health problems- yet had a carry permit and legally bought his new shotgun last week.

msnbcmedia.msn.com/i//MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/4145_001.pdf

Shot the tires out on a car during a PTSD blackout fueled by anger (RED FLAG!!!)  Charged with 'malicious mischief' really ?!?!

www.tarrantda.com/wp-content/uploads/Statement-on-Aaron-Alexis.pdf

Shot a round through his ceiling into the apartment above (RED FLAG!!!)  They claimed that it wasn't reckless so no charges- really?!?!

investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/16/20527513-alleged-washington-shooter-served-as-navy-reservist-may-have-recently-lost-job?lite

     Alexis had been treated multiple times for psychological issues, including sleep deprivation, anger and paranoia. Most recently they said he had been treated at a VA Hospital in New England.

Anger and paranoia huh- just what that person needs is a gun.

Oh well- on to the next incident since nothing will be done anyway.

[Deleted]

imo we had failures in a number of areas

VA hospital...being treated for possible mental issues....yet they did not pull secret clearance which should have happened

he wasnt convicted of either of the two gun incidents in the past.....should he have been? 

without the conviction, the state of virginia cant hold up his right to purchase arms

as more info comes out, i am sure we will hear about other failures

i dont see the gun dealers as the issue here though.....this one is on the governmental agencies at state and federal levels

[workpublic]

sounds like the mental health system failed him/us.

yet had a carry permit and legally bought his new shotgun last week.

didn't know a permit is required for shotguns.

i thought he used an AR 15 semi auto?

[Value Buy]

We do not have a thread on it yet?
Well we now have a black man who went off the deep end with an AR-15

Since he was black, we cannot have the usual tirade about sick white males going off the deep end......
Is it true he disarmed a guard and took the AR-15 from the guard and used it?
And how a man with known mental issues was working as a civilian contracter for the Government.
So many questions and very few correct answers right now.

[Tennesseer]

We already have an active thread. 

"Seattle, Ft. Worth cops drop ball- shooter had a history"

[Tennesseer]

Sept 17, 2013 9:54:07 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

We do not have a thread on it yet?
Well we now have a black man who went off the deep end with an AR-15

Since he was black, we cannot have the usual tirade about sick white males going off the deep end......
Is it true he disarmed a guard and took the AR-15 from the guard and used it?
And how a man with known mental issues was working as a civilian contracter for the Government.
So many questions and very few correct answers right now.

Interesting how quickly you make it a race issue.  Right out of the gate.  

[mmhmm]

I'll merge this thread into the ongoing thread, Value Buy. - mmhmm, Administrator

[Value Buy]

Sept 17, 2013 9:58:53 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 17, 2013 9:54:07 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

We do not have a thread on it yet?
Well we now have a black man who went off the deep end with an AR-15

Since he was black, we cannot have the usual tirade about sick white males going off the deep end......
Is it true he disarmed a guard and took the AR-15 from the guard and used it?
And how a man with known mental issues was working as a civilian contracter for the Government.
So many questions and very few correct answers right now.

Interesting how quickly you make it a race issue.  Right out of the gate.  

I did not make it a race issue. previous THREADS  have always made it a race issue because the mass shooters seem to be overwhelming white.
I commented we have not had the usual white man tirade here, but now that I know there was a thread started on the DC shooting, I have to go back and read the thread before further comment.
Read my QUESTION. It concerned mental issues and jobs and how he got the AR-15

[wvugurl26]

I saw reports this morning that the AR-15 report was inaccurate. He supposedly had a shotgun and handguns taken from security guards at Navy Yard.

Everyone loves to blame the ARs. The gun itself does not kill people. In the recent tragedies, all of the shooters have had untreated and/or undiagnosed mental health issues.

We need to fix our mental health system in this country badly. We shouldn't be locking all people with issues up for good but our current system has swung too far the other way. Fixing that system is hard and lawmakers can't just write a law that does that.

So they write laws blaming the guns and then tell their people back home that they did something to fix the issue.

What happened is absolutely horrible but sane, healthy people do not shoot their coworkers or other innocent people.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 17, 2013 10:07:37 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Sept 17, 2013 9:58:53 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Interesting how quickly you make it a race issue.  Right out of the gate.  

I did not make it a race issue. previous THREADS  have always made it a race issue because the mass shooters seem to be overwhelming white.
I commented we have not had the usual white man tirade here, but now that I know there was a thread started on the DC shooting, I have to go back and read the thread before further comment.
Read my QUESTION. It concerned mental issues and jobs and how he got the AR-15

You are right.  I don't see the words 'race' or 'black' in reply #3.  

[bean29]

Sept 17, 2013 10:14:10 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

I saw reports this morning that the AR-15 report was inaccurate. He supposedly had a shotgun and handguns taken from security guards at Navy Yard.

Everyone loves to blame the ARs. The gun itself does not kill people. In the recent tragedies, all of the shooters have had untreated and/or undiagnosed mental health issues.

We need to fix our mental health system in this country badly. We shouldn't be locking all people with issues up for good but our current system has swung too far the other way. Fixing that system is hard and lawmakers can't just write a law that does that.

So they write laws blaming the guns and then tell their people back home that they did something to fix the issue.

What happened is absolutely horrible but sane, healthy people do not shoot their coworkers or other innocent people.

Actually wvugurl26, the truth is that Fixing the Mental Health system is going to be EXPENSIVE.  The largest reason lawmakers don't change the system we have now, it they will be on the hook to provide treatment and housing for the Mentally ILL.  Homeless people are pretty inexpensive.  Most of the homeless are pretty harmless, however I do believe they deserve to be well.

Milwaukee County is under Court order to change our system for many years already.  The have pretty much done diddly squat to make any changes. Its all about the $$$.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2013 22:44:37 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

of gun incidents and mental health problems- yet had a carry permit and legally bought his new shotgun last week.

msnbcmedia.msn.com/i//MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/4145_001.pdf

Shot the tires out on a car during a PTSD blackout fueled by anger (RED FLAG!!!)  Charged with 'malicious mischief' really ?!?!

www.tarrantda.com/wp-content/uploads/Statement-on-Aaron-Alexis.pdf

Shot a round through his ceiling into the apartment above (RED FLAG!!!)  They claimed that it wasn't reckless so no charges- really?!?!

investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/16/20527513-alleged-washington-shooter-served-as-navy-reservist-may-have-recently-lost-job?lite

     Alexis had been treated multiple times for psychological issues, including sleep deprivation, anger and paranoia. Most recently they said he had been treated at a VA Hospital in New England.

Anger and paranoia huh- just what that person needs is a gun.

Oh well- on to the next incident since nothing will be done anyway.

Somethings being done about it. The NRA is fighting tooth and nail to make sure law abiding citizens have the ability to protect themselves from these nut cases. Due to budget constraints, the government seems to have dropped the ball on the mental health issue.

[Opti]

What happened is absolutely horrible but sane, healthy people do not shoot their coworkers or other innocent people.

I agree when it comes to mass shootings, but healthy sane folks shoot individuals all the time. Sometimes its for reasons like George Zimmerman or mistakes like various policeman but I don't think there is a one to one link between shooting people and insanity.

Part of the issue too is the percentage of sane or mentally ill people who shoot others is still overall quite small. Treating 100,000 people for example in hopes of stopping one shooter doesn't seem like good odds. Money probably would be better spend studying the people who have become mass shooters and treating a much smaller part of that population that has similar warning signs.

[Tennesseer]

For Value Buy as he introduced race into the thread:

24 Deadliest Mass Shootings in U.S. History:

32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. Seung-Hui Cho, Asian
27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook Elementary School - Newtown, Adam Lanza, White
23 killed - October 16, 1991 - In Killeen, Texas, George Hennard, White
21 killed - July 18, 1984 - In San Ysidro, California, James Huberty, White
18 killed - August 1, 1966 - University of Texas. Charles Joseph Whitman, White
13 killed - November 5, 2009 – Fort Hood, Texas, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, Black
13 killed - April 3, 2009 - In Binghamton, New York, Jiverly Wong, Asian
13 killed - April 20, 1999 - Columbine High School - Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, White
13 killed - September 25, 1982 - In Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, George Banks, Black
12 killed - September 16, 2013 - Shots are fired inside the U.S. Navy Yard, Aaron Alexis, Black
12 killed - July 20, 2012 - Aurora, Colorado movie theater, James E. Holmes, White
12 killed - July 29, 1999 - Atlanta, Georgia, 44-year-old Mark Barton, White
10 killed - March 10, 2009 – Kinston, Alabama, Michael McLendon, White
9 killed - January 7, 1973 - New Orleans, Louisiana, Mark Robert James Essex, Black
8 killed - October 12, 2011 - Salon Meritage, Seal Beach, California. Scott Evans Dekraai, White
8 killed - August 3, 2010 - Manchester, Connecticut, Omar Thornton. Black
8 killed - January 19, 2010 – Appomattox, Va. Christopher Speight, White
8 killed - March 29, 2009 - Carthage, North Carolina, Robert Stewart, White
8 killed - December 5, 2007 - Omaha, Nebraska mall, Robert Hawkins, White
8 killed - March 21, 2005 - Red Lake High School, Red Lake, MN. Jeff Weise, American Indian
8 killed - July 1, 1993 - San Francisco, California, Gian Luigi Ferri White
8 killed - September 14, 1989 - Louisville, Kentucky, Joseph Wesbecker, White
8 killed - May 17, 1984 - Manley Hot Springs, Alaska, Michael Silka, White
8 killed - August 20, 1982 - In Miami, Florida, Carl Robert Brown, White

24 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2013 11:17:23 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

For Value Buy as he introduced race into the thread:

24 Deadliest Mass Shootings in U.S. History:

32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. Seung-Hui Cho, Asian
27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook Elementary School - Newtown, Adam Lanza, White
23 killed - October 16, 1991 - In Killeen, Texas, George Hennard, White
21 killed - July 18, 1984 - In San Ysidro, California, James Huberty, White
18 killed - August 1, 1966 - University of Texas. Charles Joseph Whitman, White
13 killed - November 5, 2009 – Fort Hood, Texas, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, Black
13 killed - April 3, 2009 - In Binghamton, New York, Jiverly Wong, Asian
13 killed - April 20, 1999 - Columbine High School - Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, White
13 killed - September 25, 1982 - In Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, George Banks, Black
12 killed - September 16, 2013 - Shots are fired inside the U.S. Navy Yard, Aaron Alexis, Black
12 killed - July 20, 2012 - Aurora, Colorado movie theater, James E. Holmes, White
12 killed - July 29, 1999 - Atlanta, Georgia, 44-year-old Mark Barton, White
10 killed - March 10, 2009 – Kinston, Alabama, Michael McLendon, White
9 killed - January 7, 1973 - New Orleans, Louisiana, Mark Robert James Essex, Black
8 killed - October 12, 2011 - Salon Meritage, Seal Beach, California. Scott Evans Dekraai, White
8 killed - August 3, 2010 - Manchester, Connecticut, Omar Thornton. Black
8 killed - January 19, 2010 – Appomattox, Va. Christopher Speight, White
8 killed - March 29, 2009 - Carthage, North Carolina, Robert Stewart, White
8 killed - December 5, 2007 - Omaha, Nebraska mall, Robert Hawkins, White
8 killed - March 21, 2005 - Red Lake High School, Red Lake, MN. Jeff Weise, American Indian
8 killed - July 1, 1993 - San Francisco, California, Gian Luigi Ferri White
8 killed - September 14, 1989 - Louisville, Kentucky, Joseph Wesbecker, White
8 killed - May 17, 1984 - Manley Hot Springs, Alaska, Michael Silka, White
8 killed - August 20, 1982 - In Miami, Florida, Carl Robert Brown, White

24 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History

I counted 15 out of 24 as white. Seems about right, as of the last census, 72.4% of the US population claims to be white.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 17, 2013 11:38:59 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Sept 17, 2013 11:17:23 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

For Value Buy as he introduced race into the thread:

24 Deadliest Mass Shootings in U.S. History:

32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. Seung-Hui Cho, Asian
27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook Elementary School - Newtown, Adam Lanza, White
23 killed - October 16, 1991 - In Killeen, Texas, George Hennard, White
21 killed - July 18, 1984 - In San Ysidro, California, James Huberty, White
18 killed - August 1, 1966 - University of Texas. Charles Joseph Whitman, White
13 killed - November 5, 2009 – Fort Hood, Texas, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, Black
13 killed - April 3, 2009 - In Binghamton, New York, Jiverly Wong, Asian
13 killed - April 20, 1999 - Columbine High School - Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, White
13 killed - September 25, 1982 - In Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, George Banks, Black
12 killed - September 16, 2013 - Shots are fired inside the U.S. Navy Yard, Aaron Alexis, Black
12 killed - July 20, 2012 - Aurora, Colorado movie theater, James E. Holmes, White
12 killed - July 29, 1999 - Atlanta, Georgia, 44-year-old Mark Barton, White
10 killed - March 10, 2009 – Kinston, Alabama, Michael McLendon, White
9 killed - January 7, 1973 - New Orleans, Louisiana, Mark Robert James Essex, Black
8 killed - October 12, 2011 - Salon Meritage, Seal Beach, California. Scott Evans Dekraai, White
8 killed - August 3, 2010 - Manchester, Connecticut, Omar Thornton. Black
8 killed - January 19, 2010 – Appomattox, Va. Christopher Speight, White
8 killed - March 29, 2009 - Carthage, North Carolina, Robert Stewart, White
8 killed - December 5, 2007 - Omaha, Nebraska mall, Robert Hawkins, White
8 killed - March 21, 2005 - Red Lake High School, Red Lake, MN. Jeff Weise, American Indian
8 killed - July 1, 1993 - San Francisco, California, Gian Luigi Ferri White
8 killed - September 14, 1989 - Louisville, Kentucky, Joseph Wesbecker, White
8 killed - May 17, 1984 - Manley Hot Springs, Alaska, Michael Silka, White
8 killed - August 20, 1982 - In Miami, Florida, Carl Robert Brown, White

24 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History

I counted 15 out of 24 as white. Seems about right, as of the last census, 66% of the US population claims to be white.

Sixteen incidents perpetrated by white shooters.  And a total of 17 shooters were white if you count both shooters at Columbine.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2013 11:46:54 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 17, 2013 11:38:59 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I counted 15 out of 24 as white. Seems about right, as of the last census, 66% of the US population claims to be white.

Sixteen incidents perpetrated by white shooters.  And a total of 17 shooters were white if you count both shooters at Columbine.

I also corrected my white population percentage number for the 2010 census in my previous post. (72.4%)  I really shouldn't try to do old statistics from memory. 

[EVT1]

Anyone not think the prosecutors screwed this one up?

I would think most everyone (except the NRA) would agree that once you shoot the tires out on someone's car because you are pissed off that should pretty much prevent you from buying anymore guns or gaining a permit.  Malicious mischief? Bullshit- they gave him a pass. 

If not after that, then the second gun offense should have closed the deal.  WTF Texas?  How in the hell is it not 'reckless' to fire a gun through the floor of you neighbor's home?  Gun cleaning 'accident'?  Bullshit!  There are no gun cleaning 'accidents'- there are only negligent and reckless actions.  He shot off again because he was angry and they let him off.  What if had hit or killed someone upstairs?  Bet your ass it would have been 'reckless' then.

Ball dropped.

[EVT1]

Good Lord:

     In the weeks before the attack on the Navy Yard, Alexis reported hearing voices and said that three people were sending vibrations through the ceiling to keep him from sleeping, police said Tuesday.

     Police in Newport, R.I., said that Alexis called them to a Marriott hotel there on the morning of Aug. 7 and reported that he was being followed and was worried that the people were going to hurt him.

     Alexis told police that the three talked to him through the walls, floor or ceiling at three hotels — two commercial hotels in Rhode Island and one on a naval base there. He told them that they used a microwave machine to send vibrations and keep him awake.


usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/17/20535835-washington-navy-yard-shooter-practiced-with-ar-15-at-virginia-range-two-days-before-rampage-lawyer-says?lite

Nothing we can do though- 2nd amendment is too damn sacred and we wouldn't want mentally ill people to lose their rights to be armed time bombs.  Who needs background checks- a gun for everyone no questions asked.  That's the American way.

[workpublic]

was the DC sniper on the list?

and because the DA screwed up and the mental health system screwed up we should still ban all people from having guns, right?

I like JMAs take. we need guns to protect us from these aholes.

Treating 100,000 people for example in hopes of stopping one shooter doesn't seem like good odds

so is banning guns the answer?

[Tennesseer]

Sept 19, 2013 13:57:54 GMT -5 workpublic said:

was the DC sniper on the list?

and because the DA screwed up and the mental health system screwed up we should still ban all people from having guns, right?

I like JMAs take. we need guns to protect us from these aholes.

Treating 100,000 people for example in hopes of stopping one shooter doesn't seem like good odds

so is banning guns the answer?

The D.C. Sniper(s) killings were over a period of 20 days and not minutes like the mass killings above.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2013 20:45:36 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Anyone not think the prosecutors screwed this one up?

I would think most everyone (except the NRA) would agree that once you shoot the tires out on someone's car because you are pissed off that should pretty much prevent you from buying anymore guns or gaining a permit.  Malicious mischief? Bullshit- they gave him a pass. 

If not after that, then the second gun offense should have closed the deal.  WTF Texas?  How in the hell is it not 'reckless' to fire a gun through the floor of you neighbor's home?  Gun cleaning 'accident'?  Bullshit!  There are no gun cleaning 'accidents'- there are only negligent and reckless actions.  He shot off again because he was angry and they let him off.  What if had hit or killed someone upstairs?  Bet your ass it would have been 'reckless' then.

Ball dropped.

I'd hate to live in your world where every mistake means you will be disallowed from doing, or using something. We'd all be sitting on the ground, not moving, for fear of making a mistake.

[EVT1]

Sept 20, 2013 13:06:21 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Sept 17, 2013 20:45:36 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Anyone not think the prosecutors screwed this one up?

I would think most everyone (except the NRA) would agree that once you shoot the tires out on someone's car because you are pissed off that should pretty much prevent you from buying anymore guns or gaining a permit.  Malicious mischief? Bullshit- they gave him a pass. 

If not after that, then the second gun offense should have closed the deal.  WTF Texas?  How in the hell is it not 'reckless' to fire a gun through the floor of you neighbor's home?  Gun cleaning 'accident'?  Bullshit!  There are no gun cleaning 'accidents'- there are only negligent and reckless actions.  He shot off again because he was angry and they let him off.  What if had hit or killed someone upstairs?  Bet your ass it would have been 'reckless' then.

Ball dropped.

I'd hate to live in your world where every mistake means you will be disallowed from doing, or using something. We'd all be sitting on the ground, not moving, for fear of making a mistake.

Because shooting out tires is just a minor 'mistake' or shooting into someone else's home is a just another minor 'mistake'?  Unfortunately that's the world we live in- in mine his ass wouldn't have a permit or be allowed to buy a gun.  In yours he gets both and shoots up a workplace.



So tell me- is what happened proper?  In your perfect world what should the consequences be for 1) shooting up someone's car and 2) shooting into someone's home?  A $10 ticket with an ammo discount coupon on the back??

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2013 15:30:28 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Sept 20, 2013 13:06:21 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I'd hate to live in your world where every mistake means you will be disallowed from doing, or using something. We'd all be sitting on the ground, not moving, for fear of making a mistake.

Because shooting out tires is just a minor 'mistake' or shooting into someone else's home is a just another minor 'mistake'?  Unfortunately that's the world we live in- in mine his ass wouldn't have a permit or be allowed to buy a gun.  In yours he gets both and shoots up a workplace.



So tell me- is what happened proper?  In your perfect world what should the consequences be for 1) shooting up someone's car and 2) shooting into someone's home?  A $10 ticket with an ammo discount coupon on the back??

I reread my post and failed to see where I typed the words "minor" and "perfect world". If you wish to make up fictional statements about my "perfect world", feel free to do so. Down here in AR I can walk down my road with my AR-15, a round in the chamber, the safety off, and 30 round magazine in place. I can also walk down that same road with an open beer, no gun, and be arrested. The point is that ...mental clarity... has a higher value here, than restricting firearms. My statement still stands that the government has dropped the ball on the mental health issue due to budgetary constraints. The NRA has the right idea to keep pushing in all the states for law abiding citizens to carry firearms. Doesn't Chicago have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country ? Hows that working for them ?

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2013 10:14:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

In places like Kenya I would assume there are guns everywhere, didn't help them stop the massacre.

I have no knowledge of gun laws in Kenya, nor proliferation rate of guns there. I really couldn't respond with any accuracy about Kenya and private gun owners.

[EVT1]

Sept 25, 2013 8:52:57 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Sept 20, 2013 15:30:28 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Because shooting out tires is just a minor 'mistake' or shooting into someone else's home is a just another minor 'mistake'?  Unfortunately that's the world we live in- in mine his ass wouldn't have a permit or be allowed to buy a gun.  In yours he gets both and shoots up a workplace.



So tell me- is what happened proper?  In your perfect world what should the consequences be for 1) shooting up someone's car and 2) shooting into someone's home?  A $10 ticket with an ammo discount coupon on the back??

I reread my post and failed to see where I typed the words "minor" and "perfect world". If you wish to make up fictional statements about my "perfect world", feel free to do so. Down here in AR I can walk down my road with my AR-15, a round in the chamber, the safety off, and 30 round magazine in place. I can also walk down that same road with an open beer, no gun, and be arrested. The point is that ...mental clarity... has a higher value here, than restricting firearms. My statement still stands that the government has dropped the ball on the mental health issue due to budgetary constraints. The NRA has the right idea to keep pushing in all the states for law abiding citizens to carry firearms. Doesn't Chicago have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country ? Hows that working for them ?

Notice I put quote marks on 'mistake' not 'minor mistake' and did not quote 'perfect world'.  No fiction involved just sarcasm to your idea that these 'mistakes' should not keep someone from owning a weapon- I think they are a perfectly good reason to deny someone a gun.

Funny- around here the police won't bother you for the beer but you will likely be stopeed and questioned if you are carrying an AR-15- and will probably be arrested if it is loaded.  And you damn well should be at a minimum stopped and questioned.

Who is the larger potential threat- man with a beer or man with a gun?  Sounds like your cops have their priorities screwed up.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2013 15:49:35 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Sept 25, 2013 8:52:57 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I reread my post and failed to see where I typed the words "minor" and "perfect world". If you wish to make up fictional statements about my "perfect world", feel free to do so. Down here in AR I can walk down my road with my AR-15, a round in the chamber, the safety off, and 30 round magazine in place. I can also walk down that same road with an open beer, no gun, and be arrested. The point is that ...mental clarity... has a higher value here, than restricting firearms. My statement still stands that the government has dropped the ball on the mental health issue due to budgetary constraints. The NRA has the right idea to keep pushing in all the states for law abiding citizens to carry firearms. Doesn't Chicago have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country ? Hows that working for them ?

Notice I put quote marks on 'mistake' not 'minor mistake' and did not quote 'perfect world'.  No fiction involved just sarcasm to your idea that these 'mistakes' should not keep someone from owning a weapon- I think they are a perfectly good reason to deny someone a gun.

Funny- around here the police won't bother you for the beer but you will likely be stopeed and questioned if you are carrying an AR-15- and will probably be arrested if it is loaded.  And you damn well should be at a minimum stopped and questioned.

Who is the larger potential threat- man with a beer or man with a gun?  Sounds like your cops have their priorities screwed up.

Well armed, law abiding citizens, are an asset to our minimal police force. Criminals, or those with criminal intent, feel very threatened here. Drug users or even those carrying the paraphernalia are arrested. I have a loaded bolt action 30-06 Savage and a H+K shotgun mounted on a rack in the back window of my P/U truck. I can't remember the last time I had some road rage afflicted driver pass and swerve close in front of me because he was late for work and I wasn't driving very fast.

[frankq]

Nothing we can do though- 2nd amendment is too damn sacred and we wouldn't want mentally ill people to lose their rights to be armed time bombs. Who needs background checks- a gun for everyone no questions asked. That's the American way.

Well, here's a thought. Why don't we hold everyone in the long line of public/government employee incompetence accountable on this one? Let see if anyone outside of the contractor, will get ass handed to them......Doubt it. The guy HAD a background check. So, since it's working so well at the Federal level here, yes, by all means, lets all of us put our faith in these assholes. A half hour this guy had? In a "secure government facility"? A place that maintains and manages some of the most sophisticated ships and weapons systems on the planet? Maybe....if the ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL on site were allowed to carry a side arm, hence the term ARMED forces, this would not have happened this way eh?

And for the record, there was no "assault rifle" used.

I would think most everyone (except the NRA) would agree that once you shoot the tires out on someone's car because you are pissed off that should pretty much prevent you from buying anymore guns or gaining a permit.

Yes, the NRA would have erected a statue to this guy.....WTF evt...You've got some serious issues..

[unrepentant_spendthrift]

Sept 25, 2013 10:14:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

In places like Kenya I would assume there are guns everywhere, didn't help them stop the massacre.

In Kenya, it is illegal to own and/or carry a gun without a license... A privilege accorded to very few outside of law enforcement and military. And the very rich, of course. And even they have to have to join the police reserves to get the license. Kenya was a British colony and their gun laws are very similar to those of the UK

[djAdvocate]

Sept 17, 2013 8:13:23 GMT -5 workpublic said:

sounds like the mental health system failed him/us.

yet had a carry permit and legally bought his new shotgun last week.

didn't know a permit is required for shotguns.

i thought he used an AR 15 semi auto?

believe he stole that from a guard- using the shotgun.