Need help? Don't run to the police- might get you shot

[EVT1]

www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/09/14/4313045/cmpd-chief-to-hold-press-conference.html#.UjZB1JIo7IX

     Ferrell was driving a vehicle that crashed into the woods near Reedy Creek Road in northeast Charlotte.

     Monroe called the accident severe, adding that Ferrell would have been forced to climb out of the back window to get out.

     Ferrell apparently walked to the nearest house, about a half-mile from the accident, and was “banging on the door viciously,” Monroe said. The woman who lives there thought the man at her door was her husband coming home late from work.

     But when she saw Ferrell instead, she shut the door and called police because she thought he was trying to rob her.

     Officers received a call shortly after 2:30 a.m. about an attempted break-in at a residence in the 7500 block of Reedy Creek Road.

     The three officers from the Hickory Grove division who responded to the scene came across a man matching the description of the possible suspect, and they surrounded him. The man “immediately charged” at the police, Monroe said.

     Officer Thornell Little unsuccessfully fired his Taser at Ferrell, who continued to run toward them, police said in a statement. Kerrick then fired several rounds at Ferrell, who was shot multiple times and pronounced dead at the scene, police said.

'Immediately charged at'- never heard that one before.......Almost swept this one under the rug till they found out he was a ball player and it made the news.

[Artemis Windsong]

That is tragic.  The man was probably in shock and did what he thought was best.

Banging on someones door at 2:30 a.m. needs some verbal explanation like I've been in an accident.  Although, he might not have been able to talk.

What happened to using just enough force to stop the guy?  Overkill is a chargeable offense.

I surmise there was no cell phone service in the area.  No service happens more than city folk think.

[fairlycrazy23]

Sounds like they need better traser training..but if he charged them it sounds like they were justified. Actually sounds like more to it, since one officer has been charged with voluntary manslaughter

[Virgil Showlion]

Sounds like he did nothing except run towards them and got blown away, unless you believe an officer pulled out his taser, fired, missed, pulled out his weapon, disengaged the safety, aimed and fired, all in the time it takes a man to run ten feet.

[zibazinski]

Was this in Florida?

[The Captain]

Sept 15, 2013 20:34:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sounds like he did nothing except run towards them and got blown away, unless you believe an officer pulled out his taser, fired, missed, pulled out his weapon, disengaged the safety, aimed and fired, all in the time it takes a man to run ten feet.

There were three officers, one fired his tazer and missed (I don't think they reload quickly).

The second officer then fired and killed the guy who was running toward them.  This is the man currently held and charged with manslaughter.

The third officer apparently did not engage.

"There have been at least eight other officer-involved shootings in the past five years, and four of them were fatal. In those cases, the victims were armed."

Yep, sounds like we have a bunch of trigger happy cops here going around shooting innocent citizens without ANY provocation...

Or maybe this is an extremely isolated, and tragic, incident and the party who over-reacted with have to answer to the law, same as everyone else.

[whoisjohngalt]

So, while I am usually the one saying "stop making everything about race", I think this one is. 

I just don't see a white man or a woman getting shot for running towards the cops.

I could be wrong, I've been wrong before...........

[zibazinski]

I can see a white man getting shot just as easily. A woman may have had a better chance but anyone running toward me puts me on high alert!

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 16, 2013 7:08:17 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Sept 15, 2013 20:34:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sounds like he did nothing except run towards them and got blown away, unless you believe an officer pulled out his taser, fired, missed, pulled out his weapon, disengaged the safety, aimed and fired, all in the time it takes a man to run ten feet.

There were three officers, one fired his tazer and missed (I don't think they reload quickly).

The second officer then fired and killed the guy who was running toward them.  This is the man currently held and charged with manslaughter.

The third officer apparently did not engage.

"There have been at least eight other officer-involved shootings in the past five years, and four of them were fatal. In those cases, the victims were armed."

Yep, sounds like we have a bunch of trigger happy cops here going around shooting innocent citizens without ANY provocation...

Or maybe this is an extremely isolated, and tragic, incident and the party who over-reacted with have to answer to the law, same as everyone else.

I didn't say there wasn't "ANY" provocation. I'm questioning the timeline.

A taser is fired inside of... what... ten feet? We know that Mr. Ferrell was in an accident and (barring the full toxicology report mentioned by the article) we can assume his goal was simply to find help. Hence what would he do? He'd run towards the police, "Oh, thank goodness officers..."

Mr. Little fires his taser and misses. That takes... two seconds? Three? Then Mr. Kerrick fires his weapon several times, killing Mr. Ferrell. Suppose we add another 2 seconds to drawing the gun and firing. So in order for their story to be accurate, Mr. Kerrick would have to be covering less than two feet a second.

More likely: Mr. Ferrell sees them and comes jogging towards them. They panic. Mr. Little fires his taser and hits air because Ferrell is still 25+ feet away. Kerrick doesn't give a toot whether there's a taser or not. He immediately draws his weapon and fires madly at the man running towards him.

Considering a charging man can cover 20 feet in a second, I can sympathize with Mr. Kerrick for wanting to defend himself. But the article makes it sound as if he waited until after he knew the LTL option hadn't been successful, which is a crock. He was shooting the instant he saw Ferrell barreling towards him.

[kent]

From what little info I've read, there is no justification for shooting this guy.  You mean to tell me THREE officers couldn't have controlled him if need be?

Now, if the lady whose door he was banging on at 2:00AM had taken some sort of action I could see where a tragic situation might have taken place (NOT saying it would be justified).
  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I just don't see a white man or a woman getting shot for running towards the cops

DH nearly got himself shot.  He drug me mushroom hunting and we were trespassing.  I was in the truck when the sheriff pulled up.  We were talking and here DH comes popping up out of nowhere and starts approaching the cop.  I yelled at him to stop moving when I saw the cop put his hand on his gun.
 
You don't pop out of the woods and start heading towards a cop car.  Great way to get yourself shot. 


I do feel bad for this guy, he probably wasn't thinking clearly.   If I saw three cops with guns/tasers drawn I'd freeze and promptly pee my pants.

[whoisjohngalt]

Holy crap Drama.  It would NEVER occur to me NOT to walk toward a cop.  NEVER.

Learn something new every day.....

[justme]

There's a difference between walking and running, with someone running at you more likely to be an aggressive thing. Though I could see how someone who had been in an accident and had been searching for help would run towards help.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It would NEVER occur to me NOT to walk toward a cop. NEVER.

I know!  It was like an episode of COPS with me hanging out the truck window yelling "Get your ass in the truck!"

I told him we were lucky the guy was so restrained, we could have encountered a trigger happy cop and what a stupid way to go that would have been.

We happened to be in a situation where it was a pretty mild offense we got in trouble for so nobody was on edge.  DH was stupid but cooler heads prevailed.   The OP sounds like a highly charged situation for everyone and nobody stopped to think clearly.

[billisonboard]

Sept 16, 2013 11:22:57 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

... I yelled at him to stop moving when I saw the cop put his hand on his gun.
...

Yelling when the cop has his hand on his gun might not be the best of choices either.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Yelling when the cop has his hand on his gun might not be the best of choices either

You're right.  I had visions of DH being riddled full of holes.  I wanted him back in the truck or at least to stop moving.


Probably also helped I had told the cop my DH was in the woods mushroom hunting (I didn't put it that nicely) and he was waiting for DH to show up.  He told me it wasn't a good idea to ditch him and make him walk home like I wanted to.

If he didn't already know why we were there it probably would have been worse.  The cops in the OP went in expecting an armed robber based on the 911 call, not someone who had just been in a very serious accident.

[EVT1]

Since when is running towards someone a threat that justifies deadly force?  That's the problem with this.

Of course it didn't help that the lady that called the police was whining about a possible break-in or robbery- will have to wait on the 911 call for that one to see- putting the police in the mindset of facing a 'bad guy'.

[workpublic]

not to mention, unfortunately, the "bad guy" "fit the statistical profile"
and the statistical profile is not based on racism.

[justme]

If you're talking to me about justifying deadly force, I never said it did. Just stating the running could be seen as more aggressive than simply walking to someone and as such, if I had my full wits about me, probably would choose to walk towards people I know are carrying guns vs running at 2:30am when it's still dark outside and possibly hard for them to see I'm unarmed.

Still don't think they should have shot just for him running, especially since the article didn't note them telling him to stop before they shot.

[workpublic]

they were looking for a "home invasion suspect" not an accident victim.

hence the fear and response. obviously they need better and more training.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't think running at them justifed shooting him either but I can see the series of unfortunate events that lead up to the situation.  Doesn't make it all right to shoot him at all.  Just seeing the "butterfly effect".  One different decision on any party's part and things would have been different.

Same with my DH.  I told him got lucky, especially when the cop informed us the area DH was in was well known for meth.  The guy had busted 8 other people mushroom hunting already that day so he believed us, but what if we'd encountred an excited newbie looking to make his first drug bust?

[Deleted]

After reading this thread I can't help thinking about all the people saying that we need police officers in our schools to protect the children from crazed gunmen. 

[EVT1]

911 Call is out- the lady reported that the man was trying to break in/ kick in the door.  This whole thing sucks for everyone involved- might go back to bad training- who knows- but for the police to charge one of their own so quickly I think there is more to it.  Either this is bad training or gross over-reaction by someone who should have know better.  Shot the man ten times for running towards him.

Maybe this is a great time to discuss having all police wear mini-cams to record all encounters.  Apparently there is a pilot program going on there- maybe this was recorded.   We should demand it- it is well worth the cost.

[OldCoyote]

Any encounter with a police officer has the potential of being deadly.

[workpublic]

Any encounter with a police officer has the potential of being deadly.

sad but true. and I think it comes in waves in America. now we are in the high probability wave