Controlled by parents with money

[thyme4change]

A friend of mine is getting pressured by her parents to buy a bigger/nicer house.  My advice - tell them to pound sand.  However, they "control" stock that is hers.  Not sure how that works when you are 30, but whatever.  So, they have offered to sell some of that stock for her and use it to bridge some of the difference between their current mortgage and what it would be for a new parent-approved house.  My advice - tell them to pound sand.  She is afraid to do that, because then she would never see the money from the stock, and they buy her a new car every 3 years.  She is afraid if she doesn't comply with her parent's demands, she will be cut off.  My advice - buy your own damn car, you will get the stock when they die (use it for retirement) and tell them to pound sand.  I am pretty sure there is a 0% chance of her doing that.  She likes to have money.  However, I think they are putting ridiculous offers in on acceptable houses to make it look like they are trying, but not actually getting into a position where they will have to buy a house.  I told my husband that I am glad my parents don't have that kind of money.  We were forced to make our own decisions about what was important, and earn enough to support those choices.  Getting your cake and eating it too doesn't seem as fun when that cake is full of strings, and someone else is picking the flavor.  (Dumb extension of that analogy - sorry about that.)

Do you know anyone whose parents control them with money?  There has got to be some great stories out there.  

[mrsdutt]

I don't know anyone like that.  One side of my husband's family was like that.  He did tell them to pound sand.  He was so proud of himself.  I was proud of him.  Gosh, I miss that man. 

[Deleted]

I'm not sure my niece resisted because she was living with her mother in a really expensive neighborhood after her divorce.  But I think her mom "helped" her buy a house in the same expensive neighborhood.  She probably wanted her daughter and her only grandchild out of the house but nearby.  Her mom is a widow who has started dating again.

The niece sold her previous home (which her father had bought while she went to college and then she and her then-husband took over the payments on) at a major loss.  So I don't see how she is affording an even more expensive house without mom's help.  Her mom has a three-story house with something like five bedrooms for one person.  See why I said her mom probably wanted her daughter/grandchild out?

That niece will never tell her mom "to pound sand."  She also worked for her mom, but her mom sold the company with a "guarantee" her daughter would keep her job.

When you quit laughing, welcome to the world of the rich.

[Shooby]

Receiving money from others comes with strings attached. If you don't want to be beholden to someone then live within your means. Then nobody can control you. I would rather live in a tent that I owned and paid for than a mansion that I didn't.

[Tennesseer]

Does a full-time housekeeper and groundskeeper (paid for out of the parents' own funds) come with the house upgrade?

[resolution]

When I bought my first house I was in a similar situation. My parents felt it would be a huge mistake to buy in the area that was in my price range. They tried to talk me into buying in a safer and more central neighborhood, but I told them no because it was out of my price range. Long and short they came back and offered to give me 10k to offset some of the cost if I bought in the nicer area. I did take them up on it and I have to admit that they were right and it would have been a huge mistake to buy where I had originally been looking.

That was about 15 years ago and they never held the money over my head. They don't want to be paid back, instead they used that as an excuse to add 10k to my sister's education fund for the grand-kids.

[Nazgul Girl]

    My father has offered or given me money at various times.   The most he ever gave me was $ 1500 and that was very generous.   I was struggling as a single parent at the time.   He's talked about larger amounts, but there were waaayyy too many strings attached, one particularly tied to my religious choice ( as in get out of that church - Catholic - and I'll *essentially* pay you off by leaving you in my will ! .   I did have to tell him to go pound sand on tha one, but that was thirty years ago, and we're way past that issue now.

   Except for token amounts, he's bypassing his three children in his trust, and has set up joint stock accounts with his seven grandchildren.   Each grandkid, so far, has about $ 25,000 from him in their accounts.   They trade stocks with his supervision/advice, according to the Jim Stack ( Investech ) lists of various choices.   He wants the grandchildren to learn how to handle investments.   He also set up accounts for his two great grandchildren, and has transferred about $ 5000 - $ 6000 into each one of those.   Those two accounts are managed by their father, my nephew, along the Jim Stack guidelines.

   I agree with his decision to bypass his three grown children ( including me ), since we're all doing well, or well enough, and it's best that the next generation have the opportunity to get some cash and some experience at the times of their lives when they're setting up careers, educational goals regarding advanced degrees, buying homes, and starting families.   When he passes away, , the accounts will be owned outright by the grandchilren.   His oldest grandchild, my daughter, is 33, and the ages go own down from there to the early twenties.   Nobody's taken the money out of the account and bought a Harley with it, because he would *not* be pleased.   So, I guess there are strings attached to the money, but they're good, sensible strings, and besides, where else will they be getting $ 25,000 at this time of their lives ?   They have to go through two up markets, and two down markets with him.    ( I don't know if he'll live that long, but it's a great program.   He's a born teacher .

   His three children have invested money ( our own ) into trading accounts based on Jim Stack, too.   My husband publishes a report every two or three weeks, since there are other family members and friends who are involved in what is known as " Stacking, " too. 

   So, sometimes money with strings attached works out.

   
  

[Miss Tequila]

I'm a very independent person who puts high value on beating able to say "everything I have I have earned myself". I would never allow someone to control me with money...any self-respecting person earns their own way in life. I would totally tell the parents to pound sound

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2013 20:19:28 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

    
   Except for token amounts, he's bypassing his three children in his trust, and has set up joint stock accounts with his seven grandchildren.   Each grandkid, so far, has about $ 25,000 from him in their accounts.   They trade stocks with his supervision/advice, according to the Jim Stack ( Investech ) lists of various choices.   He wants the grandchildren to learn how to handle investments.   He also set up accounts for his two great grandchildren, and has transferred about $ 5000 - $ 6000 into each one of those.   Those two accounts are managed by their father, my nephew, along the Jim Stack guidelines.

 <snip>
   So, sometimes money with strings attached works out.

   
  

I think this is fantastic.  The grandchildren won't squander the money because they've seen it grow, and they'll know how to invest it because they'll have learned from mistakes and won't go crazy over ups and downs in the market.

I put together a trust and have already posted about the "gold-digging floozy" clause that I've jokingly told DS I'm putting in (if his marriage to DDIL ends prematurely and he marries a gold-digging floozy all the money in the trust goes to Planned Parenthood, which I support and DS opposes).  I also told him about the Vito clause.  DS has a lovely, melodic Italian surname and a great-grandfather was named Vito.  I told him any grandchild named Vito gets the whole trust.

BTW,  DS' reaction on the trust was the same as yours- that he didn't need it but would be glad for his kids to have it for their educations.

[Nazgul Girl]

     That's a really healthy reaction for your DS to have, Athena.    I have to say that until Dad explained the whole plan that he had developed, we didn't know what the outcome of his gifting or sharing his funds with the grandchildren would be.   Once he clarified that the money wasn't going to be pulled back from underneath them when he passed away, we were just fine with it.   I think he's got a wonderful vision for all of his years of hard work and investment skills.

[raeoflyte]

Silver spoon here.

My parents bought a house for them to move to so that Dh and I can move into and eventually buy their house (the one I grew up in). It's debatable if they will actually be able to move, in which case we will move into the new house. The houses are 5 minutes apart.

They've made similar offers before to get us out of the ghetto and we've turned them down. We had many conversations about expectations on both sides and took them.up on it this time.

If my parents didn't have boundaries and respect for us we wouldn't do it. We have other options to get into that school district, but none are as sweet as this deal so... here we are.

[zibazinski]

Well, DF generously tried to help his stepdaughter with a better down payment for a safer neighborhood. She wanted to be "independent" so her kids can't play in their front yard or ride their bikes and there are no neighborhood kids to play with. She lives on a busy street. It's nice she was independent but her kids suffer for it. Her house isn't worth half of what they paid for it and this is an area that saw very little downturn when the housing boom busted. So it can go both ways. 

[Shooby]

  My parents were very generous with me.  However, my parents gave with no strings attached.  This was not the case for DH.  His dad pitched a fit over helping him buy some college textbooks.  At that point DH just got by on his loans and working and never asked his parents for a dime again.  Don't be beholden to anyone.  I dont' want a gift if there are strings attached.  If it isn't freely given, don't take it.  Don't accept gifts or money from ANYONE who demands something back, even if that means living in your car.  You have to value freedom more than you value security.   And, i guarantee that if you do, that you will work yourself into a great life.  Whereas if you constantly need some money fix to someone that owns you, you never will.

[raeoflyte]

Sept 15, 2013 9:47:48 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, DF generously tried to help his stepdaughter with a better down payment for a safer neighborhood. She wanted to be "independent" so her kids can't play in their front yard or ride their bikes and there are no neighborhood kids to play with. She lives on a busy street. It's nice she was independent but her kids suffer for it. Her house isn't worth half of what they paid for it and this is an area that saw very little downturn when the housing boom busted. So it can go both ways. 

I would think you would applaud her decision. Aren't these the step kids you say only come around for handouts?

[zibazinski]

She isn't as bad but all three have inherited the wallet syndrome from their mom. It isn't pretty but the one time she should have taken the money, she didn't. Just odd.

[Deleted]

However, they "control" stock that is hers. Not sure how that works when you are 30, but whatever... they buy her a new car every 3 years... She likes to have money.

Frankly, they ALL sound messed up to me, both your friend, and her parents. But in any case, you can't have it both ways (and that applies to the parents, and the child / your friend). If she chooses to be financially dependent on her parents, then it's her choice to be financially dependent on them.

It's highly unlikely that she can choose which gifts to accept and which gifts to reject. 

She may be complaining to you, but if she's still in that situation, she obviously thinks at least SOME of her parents' gifts / money is worth the constraints. She probably doesn't get to decide which parts though. Living in their pockets means it"s a "package deal", ie they get to control her life.

ETA: I don't think there is anything wrong with helping kids / grandkids if you can afford to. But sometimes those gifts come with strings attached. In those cases, if the child doesn't want the strings that are attached to that money, then they refuse the money. But, I don't think it can work both ways.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I friend of mine had a MIL who did this.  She used her money to try to control her son and my friend.  Her son had no problems taking money from mommy and had no problems with the strings that they came with but my friend did.  Mommy controlled the house that they bought, where they vacationed and everything that they did.  Between the 2 of them, they earned a decent salary that they could have done decently well, but her DH had a spending habit and needed mommy to bail him out regularly.

My friend divorced her DH, he has since remarried and divorced twice in the last 8 years.  Funny things, my friend is now on much better terms with her exMIL since she told her to go pound sand.

[zibazinski]

Even parents who control their kids financially don't really respect them. 

[Deleted]

I don't really consider a parent offering to bridging the gap between a nice house vs. ok house as being controlling.  In my experience, anybody that either 1) Buys before they turn 32 2) Buys their first house, regardless of age,  ends up making a mistake buying it that is very visible to somebody that has gone through that process.

I'd do the same thing for my kids.  If I knew that they were buying a house or in a neighborhood that I thought they would regret in 5 years, I'd take the risk away by offering to throw in some money of my own.  

[Labcat]

Sept 15, 2013 19:04:38 GMT -5 @davebo said:

 1) Buys before they turn 32

What's the significance of that age?

[raeoflyte]

Sept 15, 2013 16:11:09 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

She isn't as bad but all three have inherited the wallet syndrome from their mom. It isn't pretty but the one time she should have taken the money, she didn't. Just odd.

I'm sure this will come out harsher than I mean it, but it doesn't seem like you are able to not hate anything his step kids do.

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2013 19:52:08 GMT -5 Labcat said:

Sept 15, 2013 19:04:38 GMT -5 @davebo said:

 1) Buys before they turn 32

What's the significance of that age?

32 is about the average for what I see in my area...I guess it would vary depending on the circumstances.  32 is around the age where people are zeroing in on how many kids they are having and what's important in an area. 

I'm not saying parents should put too much pressure on a kid to move someplace, but they do have something to bring to the table.  They are (in most cases) looking out for your best interest and have more life experience.  I have a lot of friends that moved into an area with sub-par schools because they wanted a bigger house for their budget and regretted the move just a year later.  I think a parent offering a little assistance to help them move into location that they can grow into would've been welcomed.

[zibazinski]

DF tried his best. It's entirely due to him that they aren't low life's and criminals but he got them when their minds were already formed. The stepdaughter was living with him and I think she just felt funny and wanted out and this was the first affordable home. It's a terrible location and very unkid friendly. He tried but I think he was a bit pansy about it since they weren't HIS kids and backed off when he shouldn't have IMHO. It's easier to be parental when it's your own kid.

[skubikky]

Sept 15, 2013 9:16:05 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Sept 14, 2013 20:19:28 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

    
   Except for token amounts, he's bypassing his three children in his trust, and has set up joint stock accounts with his seven grandchildren.   Each grandkid, so far, has about $ 25,000 from him in their accounts.   They trade stocks with his supervision/advice, according to the Jim Stack ( Investech ) lists of various choices.   He wants the grandchildren to learn how to handle investments.   He also set up accounts for his two great grandchildren, and has transferred about $ 5000 - $ 6000 into each one of those.   Those two accounts are managed by their father, my nephew, along the Jim Stack guidelines.

 <snip>
   So, sometimes money with strings attached works out.

   
  

I think this is fantastic.  The grandchildren won't squander the money because they've seen it grow, and they'll know how to invest it because they'll have learned from mistakes and won't go crazy over ups and downs in the market.

I put together a trust and have already posted about the "gold-digging floozy" clause that I've jokingly told DS I'm putting in (if his marriage to DDIL ends prematurely and he marries a gold-digging floozy all the money in the trust goes to Planned Parenthood, which I support and DS opposes).  I also told him about the Vito clause.  DS has a lovely, melodic Italian surname and a great-grandfather was named Vito.  I told him any grandchild named Vito gets the whole trust.

BTW,  DS' reaction on the trust was the same as yours- that he didn't need it but would be glad for his kids to have it for their educations.

Confusing.  Does the money go to PP if he divorces and remarries?  And what test will be used to identify a gold-digging floozy?
The Vito clause?  So any other grandchildren with the usual Pepsi and white bread names get "niente"?
A little manipulation from the grave?

[zibazinski]

DF has the same deal going with the full cooperation of his EX. No spouse will ever get a dime, only the two stepkids and his bio kid from her and only the grandkids from him.

[Deleted]

My mom is a controlling person.  It is who she is.  She controls with guilt.  She controls with money.   She controls with gifts.  She controls with brute strength. I love her warts and all. 

[imawino]

Sept 16, 2013 15:05:06 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

My mom is a controlling person.  It is who she is.  She controls with guilt.  She controls with money.   She controls with gifts.  She controls with brute strength. I love her warts and all. 

Your mom has WARTS??  Gross. 

[kittensaver]

: No spouse will ever get a dime :

=========================

My IL's had a clause like this in their will (if their son/my DH died before they did, I got nothing), and maybe (probably!) I'm a pansy with a thin skin - but it hurt. I know they put this revised clause in after HD's older brother went through a very nasty and contentious divorce to a woman they always disliked intensely, but still . . . After 20+ years (the amount of time we were married before the IL's passed away) I thought they would have realized I was not "like that."

DH and I (and many times, just me) were VERY involved hands-on caretakers to and for them in their declining years (Parkinson's, cancer and dementia). Involved as in, they wouldn't let anyone but us bathe/shower/toilet them. Yeah I'm whining a little here and yeah I know I'm not "entitled" to anything and yeah I took hands-on care of them because that's what family does not because I was "expecting" something . . . but it still stung a little that they left that clause in there long after she was gone. It felt like it was aimed at me because they couldn't trust me not to "turn" on them or DH. But such is life.

End of kittensaver's whining triggered by what someone said; and now back to your regularly scheduled thread . . .    

[michelyn8]

Sept 16, 2013 15:01:05 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

DF has the same deal going with the full cooperation of his EX. No spouse will ever get a dime, only the two stepkids and his bio kid from her and only the grandkids from him.

The logic behind these conditions always puzzles me.  Once you're gone and the estate is settled, you can't control what your children, grandchildren, etc. do with the money except maybe with minors who have to prove a legitimate expense to draw from a trust (ie: college tuition). My own mother can't get her wishes straight because she can't stand the idea of my sister's husband or my brother's wife receiving anything or having any influence on how my siblings handle her money at the end.  Sometimes I think the real reason she says she's going to entrust me with things is because I'm the only child who isn't married (she doesn't care for my other sister's husband either but he at least is more financially reliable).

The only reason I set up my will to have my life insurance go into a trust for my two daughters was because I didn't want my Ex to have any access to it without someone questioning the true purpose.  It was bad enough he'd have control of any SS bennies they'd draw because of me.  But now my kids are all adults.  They know how I feel about their father and I would strongly disapprove if they used money inherited from me to his benefit but really, what can I do about it.  I'll leave it to them and whatever they choose to do with it, they will have to bear the consequences.

As to the OP, your friend isn't going to tell them to pound sand simply because she likes having the extra income her mom gives her.  My younger co-worker is always getting money from her mother, step-father and in-laws without strings.  If strings were suddenly attached, she'd never be able to give it up because she simply like "things" to much and she is too used to being able to stick out her hand to her parents whenever she needs money for her wants.

My personal experiences have been that any money I have received from my mother in the last 20 years has been a loan and paid back 99% of the time.  There have been occasions when I've gotten down to the last $30-$50 and she'll tell me not to bother because I did such and such to help her out.  These sums of money some of you receive just boggles my mind but then I didn't come from a family that gave money as gifts; in fact, I rarely received gifts outside of Christmas and never received gifts from grands or aunts and uncles.  The most my parents ever "gave" me was after my father died and my mother cleared the $6,000 debt I owed them from my divorce and other legal issues they had helped me with a few years before.

[zibazinski]

Don't know, all I know is that it isn't my concern. Its the way the two of them wanted it. I can understand the stepdaughters husband because he is a loser but the stepson married VERY well, thank GOD, and she has no need for his money really.