Ava
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Post by Ava on Sept 12, 2013 4:22:41 GMT -5
It's back to school here and back to getting stuck behind two, three, or more school buses on my way to work. I already knew there are a lot of them picking up kids, but yesterday I had to stop for five buses on the seven blocks from my home to the highway. It's insane. There's one in every block. Does this service's cost come from the school budget, or does the city pay apart for it? Why is it so badly organized? It's just my city or is it everywhere? I live in a city of around 100K and I seriously doubt they need so many buses. My commute goes from 35 minutes in the summer to around 50 when school is in session. Part of it is more traffic on the road, but also because of all the school buses I have to stop for.
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Jake 48
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Post by Jake 48 on Sept 12, 2013 5:51:31 GMT -5
Leave 10 minutes earlier and save yourself the aggravation
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Sept 12, 2013 5:55:01 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely. I am already doing that. It's not just the buses, there's also more traffic on the highway. I am just curious about the number of buses and the seemingly disorganized way in which they operate.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2013 6:57:19 GMT -5
Its called THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. Not the ONLY way they waste money but right up there!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 7:18:52 GMT -5
It's hard to call it inefficient without observing the whole area/routes. Are you close to the schools? Do you have tiered bussing? Are you sure all were from the same school/district?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2013 7:42:13 GMT -5
For some reason, unlike the olden days when I rode the bus, elementary and middle can't ride the bus together and high school is totally separate. But then again, you had to behave on the bus or else.
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Martivir
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Post by Martivir on Sept 12, 2013 7:42:14 GMT -5
Around here we have the chartered busses, the busses from different districts and the ones from ours. I'm just outside an urban area with lots of different suburbs. All of them have their own districts. All of them bus outside their district for some special needs kids. My son is on a chartered bus since his school is with an outside agency that answers to the county not a specific district. And we are on the line for two different elementary schools. The kids on our street get bussed for K and first, then walk for the rest of the grades. DS and I saw I think 4 different busses this morning while we were waiting for his. And I live on a side street. It's insane.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Sept 12, 2013 7:46:27 GMT -5
Our buses are a subcontracted service. But, the school organizes the routes and times. They need a lot of buses in order to get all the kids there on time or there would probably be some ungodly long rides. But yes, it could probably be done in a more efficient way. The people that wind up as the school "Transportation Directors" don't have any particular training in anything that i am aware of. You would think that perhaps they could commission an engineer or something to study and set the most efficient routes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 7:47:06 GMT -5
the number of busses depends on the number of kids. My kids' bus is overcrowded - to the point that my kids don't have a seat....and there are 2 stops after theirs. Transportation has to add another bus to our community, which means there may be 2 busses right behind each other. I expect - and for safety reasons it's required - my kids to have a seat that they can completely sit on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 7:47:43 GMT -5
For some reason, unlike the olden days when I rode the bus, elementary and middle can't ride the bus together and high school is totally separate. But then again, you had to behave on the bus or else. all the schools start at different times. how could they ride the bus together?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 12, 2013 8:26:46 GMT -5
For some reason, unlike the olden days when I rode the bus, elementary and middle can't ride the bus together and high school is totally separate. But then again, you had to behave on the bus or else. all the schools start at different times. how could they ride the bus together? The bus drivers here pick up/drop off the HS students, then the MS, then the elementary kids. Each level has a different start time (ditto in the afternoon). This is MORE efficient IMO because then you have a few drivers working a longer shift, rather than more drivers working a short shift. I agree that it's hard to evaluate a transportation system without knowing more information.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2013 8:28:09 GMT -5
So if they start a half hour apart or even an hour. It's called study hall or something. What a waste of money. Smaller districts can and should start on time. Larger districts need to consolidate better. But that wouldn't please the parents or the union.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 8:33:00 GMT -5
In our district, the elementary kids start first, MS is 1/2 hour later and the HS is 1/2 hour after that.
I imagine the bus drivers leave the elementary schools and then go out and get the older kids. IDK if there's enough time between the elementary and MS to use the same drivers, but there's definitely enough time for them to get the HS kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 8:44:50 GMT -5
So if they start a half hour apart or even an hour. It's called study hall or something. What a waste of money. Smaller districts can and should start on time. Larger districts need to consolidate better. But that wouldn't please the parents or the union. well even all the elementary, middle and high schools start at different times. for my kids, high school starts at 7:17 (bus pickup is at 6:30), missle school starts at I think 8:00, bus pickup at 7:25, elementary school starts at 9:20 (in totally opposite direction). so elementary kids should get the bus at 6:30 for school starting 2.5 hours later? not to mention they would have to add more busses as right now the busses are full. the busses in our county do the HS then MS then ES kids so like a previous poster said, fewer drivers/longer shifts....your plan would have more drivers/shorter shifts/more busses.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2013 8:45:40 GMT -5
Crazy.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 12, 2013 8:50:49 GMT -5
I have adjusted my route to avoid most of the buses, but what I can't figure out is why there is so much more traffic just because school is in session. are all of these people taking the whole summer off with their kids? it's been ridiculous the past couple of weeks. I live in the 'burbs and have a 6 mile commute on surface roads. this morning, traffic was stopped before I even made it out of my small city. I turned off the main road and took back roads - adding at least a couple miles in the other direction - and it still took almost half an hour.
*I realize my commute is still better than a lot of others, I'm just offering my own experience.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 12, 2013 8:51:56 GMT -5
All this talk about putting the kids on fewer busses only really matters if there are not many kids on the busses they use already. If there are only 12 kids scheduled for a bus that holds 54 then they should see about consolidating if possible. For my kids district, every bus already is scheduled to capacity. There would be no less busses out picking up students if they switched school times to put the kindy kids on a bus with the middle school and pay teachers to run study halls. The kids would just be there for an extra hour taxpayers would have to pay for and everyone would still be annoyed at all the busses blocking traffic.
There are also busses picking up kids for private schools and special services assignments. So it may look like a huge number of busses for a small number of kids if you are seeing the beginning of the routes before they have a full bus.
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Regis
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Post by Regis on Sept 12, 2013 9:21:25 GMT -5
Does this service's cost come from the school budget, or does the city pay apart for it? You pay for it, normally as part of property taxes that are apportioned to the schools.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 12, 2013 9:47:24 GMT -5
I don' know about MA, but in central NJ most Moms drive their kids to school if they don't get bus service. So anyone basically who would walk more than a block or two is in some big SUV clogging the roads around school start and school end times. It amazes me because I had a 15 minute walk to my elementary school. However, my part of Illinois also had good sidewalks on both sides of the street. NJ doesn't seem to require sidewalks on both sides of the street and certain businesses seem to be able to escape the requirement of providing sidewalks at all, so ... walking to school here is more challenging than it would be where I grew up. I made the mistake of forgetting it might be the first day of school on 9/1, and spent probably 7 to 10 minutes getting down one street that normally is a 2 minute drive without Mommy and Daddy traffic. It is an elementary school so it was awful. Usually they only park up or wait in line on one side of the street, but they had taken over both sides with the help of the police.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Sept 12, 2013 10:09:23 GMT -5
My town has right about 50,000 people in it. There are 9 public elementary school, two public middle schools, two public junior high schools and two public high schools plus the Catholic school, a Lutheran school and two charter schools. I imagine it's a safety thing (I can ask my friend since her family owns the bus company) but they prefer to not have Kindergarteners on the same bus as the High School kids. Plus all of the schools have different start times. The kids in the country get bussed to the high school and transfer busses to the one for their particular school.
I imagine it's a logistical nightmare. My niece gets on the third bus that drives by their house. She has 15 minutes after bus one goes by and 5 minutes after bus two goes by before her bus will be by. Our city is very spread out and is actually two towns in two different counties but share one School District. The schools are quite spread out.
It's not any better when you drive your kid to school. If I miss the "window" it could take me 10 minutes just to get out of the parking lot after dropping the Boy off in the mornings and in the afternoon I pick him up in the YMCA parking lot up the hill from the school because the school lot is way way way too packed to get in and out of efficiently.
* He is open enrolled to what I consider the Good school in town so I have to provide his transportation. Totally worth it in my opinion. Plus now it's right on my way to work- big improvement over junior high when it added 30 minutes to my morning commute.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 12, 2013 10:13:49 GMT -5
Opti, they do that here too. the backup isn't so much on town roads, it's on the route that connects the towns. I actually drove past two private schools on my redirected route and it was still easier than staying where I was.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 12, 2013 10:34:00 GMT -5
So if they start a half hour apart or even an hour. It's called study hall or something. What a waste of money. Smaller districts can and should start on time. Larger districts need to consolidate better. But that wouldn't please the parents or the union. I don't understand your point. You want a system that both parents and schools wouldn't like just because it would be better for fellow commuters? Maybe we should propose that for private companies also. If your company name starts with the letter A-M, your employees need to be at work by 8am. If it's N-Z, they have to be at work at 9am. Who cares about employees or employers, it's all about traffic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 10:42:13 GMT -5
the busses in our county do the HS then MS then ES kids so like a previous poster said, fewer drivers/longer shifts.... This is how the buses run in my district. It is supposed to save money. It also cuts down on the # of buses out at any given time. So I may get stuck behind HS buses, but I shouldn't get stuck behind HS, MS, and ES buses. Being on my road behind a bus is annoying. Every kid has their own stop, because we don't have any shoulder or sidewalk.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 12, 2013 11:12:14 GMT -5
All ours are combined as well. One bus will have all levels on it. We have 5 that go through our neighborhood, and we live in a small town. It's not that they are that disorganized, in fact it's the opposite. To be bussed you have to live 1 mile for elementary, 1.5 for middle and 2 miles for high school. They send each bus, out to the more remote areas, then move inwards. They schedule the buses to run through our neighborhood (a highly populous one of elementary kids) based on how many kids they have room for. So bus 20 hits the north side, but 34 hits the east side, and bus 16 hits the south and west. Instead of having one bus just for our neighborhood, and three other ones a third empty, they have figured out a balance.
We also have a special needs bus that comes through for the girl in the wheelchair down the block, and a head start bus.
Edited to add- our middle school, high school and one of the elementary schools are within 1/4 mile. The buses drop at the HS, the the MS then proceed to the Elementary. They do the reverse after school.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 12, 2013 11:36:23 GMT -5
'Who cares about employees or employers, it's all about traffic.'
Actually at one time the GM Tech Center NW of Detroit did that. The start and quit times were set at 15 minute intervals just so the traffic was manageable. And it worked.
I understand about the commute problems with school buses but they are necessary. I had to learn to love them. LOL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 17:04:51 GMT -5
So if they start a half hour apart or even an hour. It's called study hall or something. What a waste of money. Smaller districts can and should start on time. Larger districts need to consolidate better. But that wouldn't please the parents or the union. Not necessarily. Picking them all up at on e requires more busses.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Sept 12, 2013 23:18:43 GMT -5
I also wondered why traffic increased so much when schools are in session. I guess it's all the parents who give kids a ride to school. And to clarify, I am not against children getting buses to pick them up to go to school. I was just wandering if the system is inefficient. It sure looks that way from the outside. Most buses in my area seem to be about 50% to 75% full, but I don't know how far they are from destination. I don't have children so I never worried about my distance from school. Driving during summer and school holidays is a dream come true, though
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Sept 13, 2013 6:32:21 GMT -5
So if they start a half hour apart or even an hour. It's called study hall or something. What a waste of money. Smaller districts can and should start on time. Larger districts need to consolidate better. But that wouldn't please the parents or the union. No, because that plan is a waste of money. High school starts at 7:20, middle school is 8:00-something, and elementary is 9:00-something. You want more busses on the road plus day care for the elementary kids while they wait for school to start? Crazy.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Sept 13, 2013 8:54:47 GMT -5
In our district, the MS & HS share a campus and bus run (start at the same time, 7:25). The ES in the "other" village begins at 9:00, so that run is later using the same busses. The district is a rural one covering 2 towns, so some of the bus rides are ~1 hour, and the routes seem to meander, but they've been doing this for quite a while and have worked out a pretty efficient system given the distances. When they built a new bus garage, they located it 1/2way between the villages/schools. I do see more than one bus on our road, but it is a main drag, there are only so many ways to get to other sections of the district that need to be picked up. Since our road is 55mph, our driver (at least) will pull to the side to let cars pass him if a string develops and he has multiple pickups ahead. It's just common courtesy out here. Due to budget cuts, there are fewer busses on the road lately. The district cut out the UpreK mid-day runs; 72 parents have to pick-up the morning students, or drop off the afternoon students. The kids can ride the regular morning and afternoon busses w/ the older kids, but the irregular bus runs of 4 short busses was dropped. There also used to be a late-late bus for afterschool sports practices, at 5:30. That was also cut a few years ago, so kids outside walking range need to be picked up daily.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 13, 2013 9:06:22 GMT -5
No matter how inconvient it may be for regular drivers there is no real way to decrease the number of busses a school district needs. If a district has 5000 students who are outside the walking limit and the busses hold 50 students they have to have 100 busses period. It doesn't matter if they are staggered and the HS goes first then after they are dropped off at the HS those exact same busses are used for the runs to transport the Middle schools and elemtaries, or you do them all together and the elem, middle and HS students are all on the same bus. 5000 kids still need 100 busses to have a seat on a bus.
Staggering the bussing may save money or lower the number of busses on the road at one time. And just to say if you did every school at the same time you would have an hour or two of streets jam packed with busses to get them done at the same time. By staggering you have fewer busses over a longer period of time, but either way it won't do anything to lower the number of seats the district has to have available to those students every day.
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