8 months for teaching how to pass a polygraph- free speech?

[EVT1]

seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2021772209_lyingpenaltyxml.html##Static

     ALEXANDRIA, Va. — An Indiana Little League coach accused of threatening national security by teaching government job applicants how to beat lie-detector tests was sentenced Friday to eight months in prison.

     Prosecutors, who had asked for almost two years in prison, said Dixon crossed the line between free speech protected under the First Amendment and criminal conduct when he told some clients to conceal what he taught them while undergoing government polygraphs

     O’Grady acknowledged “the gray areas” between the constitutional right to discuss the techniques and the crime of teaching someone to lie while undergoing a government polygraph. “There’s nothing unlawful about maybe 95 percent of the business he conducted,” the judge said.

      This crime matters because what he did endangers others,” said Anthony Phillips, a prosecutor with the Justice Department’s division that pursues corrupt public officials.

      Phillips said the real-world consequences of Dixon’s actions were significant. Dixon trained 70 to 100 people who paid him $1,000 for a day’s work, including federal contractors seeking to keep top-secret security clearances, Phillips said. “Mr. Dixon chose to enrich himself by teaching others how to convincingly lie, cheat and steal,” Phillips said


Not really buying this argument.  How is teaching someone something or making a recommendation a crime? 

[Tennesseer]

He was also convicted of wire fraud.

He also taught convicted sex offenders how to pass a polygraph test as part of thrir probation.  That's not too cool.

www.wjla.com/articles/2013/09/chad-dixon-sentenced-to-8-months-for-lie-detector-case-93694.html

[EVT1]

Not cool at all I agree- but criminal?  What's the difference if he wrote a book on how to beat the polygraph- is he responsible for who uses that information?   Just trying to find the line where a law was broken and if that law is a violation of the 1st amendment.  

People sell kits to pass drug tests- would it matter if the person that sold it knew it was going to be used by a commercial pilot?  What if they held a class on it? 

I mean if we are locking people up for showing people how to lie, cheat and steal I can think of another place we need to start. 

[Tennesseer]

I can live with 8 months in prison for wire fraud.  

Somewhere the prosecution and the judge found his 'training' criminal.  I guess we would have had to sit through the whole trial to understand the court's decision.

[djAdvocate]

this is a fantastically interesting case.  i hope it gets more than 4 posts.

[Tennesseer]

Maybe the thread title needs to be changed to '8 months for teaching how to pass a buttercream polygraph- free speech?'   

[EVT1]

Sept 7, 2013 21:53:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

this is a fantastically interesting case.  i hope it gets more than 4 posts.

Working on it- hard on a weekend- but where do you fall on it?  I understand both sides and I am almost on the fence- but as so many say- the person that broke the law is responsible.  We could even go to some tactical gun class- is teaching people how to efficiently kill a problem- what if a recent graduate uses those skills in a mass shooting?  Is the line in the sand that he had knowledge the person was going to use the information to break a law?  Where do people that publish books on how to make bombs, meth, or growing weed fall in this?  Think The Anarchist Cookbook.  Pretty much everything it has instruction on is illegal.  This strikes me as heavy handed- how can there be a law where convincing someone else to break a law is against the law?  If I tell some jackass he should rob a 7-11 is it my fault if he does?  I get criminal conspiracy but I do not see it here.  I will have to delve into this to find out what law this falls under- but I don't get it.   I mean really- all the guy has to say is that 'I do not condone breaking the but if I did this is the way to do it.......'  Tough case- should be a good discussion on the first amendment.  This will definitely put the conservatives and libertarians in a pickle- well actually I know where the libertarians will fall- maybe this is the perfect case to find out which one PBP really is  

[billisonboard]

Sept 8, 2013 1:30:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Sept 7, 2013 21:53:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

this is a fantastically interesting case.  i hope it gets more than 4 posts.

Working on it- ...

Also still working on it- It is a tough one.

[mmhmm]

Sept 8, 2013 11:14:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 8, 2013 1:30:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Working on it- ...

Also still working on it- It is a tough one.

As am I.  I find I need a little more information.  Tough, indeed.

[Peace Of Mind]

Sept 7, 2013 18:49:06 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

He was also convicted of wire fraud.

He also taught convicted sex offenders how to pass a polygraph test as part of thrir probation.  That's not too cool.

www.wjla.com/articles/2013/09/chad-dixon-sentenced-to-8-months-for-lie-detector-case-93694.html

I don't know if that is criminal but it sure is disgusting! 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 8, 2013 1:30:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Sept 7, 2013 21:53:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

this is a fantastically interesting case.  i hope it gets more than 4 posts.

Working on it- hard on a weekend- but where do you fall on it?  I understand both sides and I am almost on the fence- but as so many say- the person that broke the law is responsible. 

i think that the training is free speech.  i am curious as to whether lying to a polygraph is legal.

[fairlycrazy23]

Sept 8, 2013 22:52:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 8, 2013 1:30:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Working on it- hard on a weekend- but where do you fall on it?  I understand both sides and I am almost on the fence- but as so many say- the person that broke the law is responsible. 

i think that the training is free speech.  i am curious as to whether lying to a polygraph is legal.

Seems like what he was sentenced for was telling clients to lie about him teaching them, not the actual teaching.

And I am pretty sure the information on how to beat a polygraph is on the internet, so he is probably only teaching those too stupid to figure it out on there own, the dangerous ones probably already know how to beat the polygraph. Maybe the government won't be as reliant on polygraphs, since they are unreliable.

I wonder if Snowden ever had to take a polygraph.

[workpublic]

I mean if we are locking people up for showing people how to lie, cheat and steal I can think of another place we need to start.

ivy league schools/fraternities?

how about a bomb making class?

[jkapp]

Sept 7, 2013 18:22:06 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2021772209_lyingpenaltyxml.html##Static

     ALEXANDRIA, Va. — An Indiana Little League coach accused of threatening national security by teaching government job applicants how to beat lie-detector tests was sentenced Friday to eight months in prison.

     Prosecutors, who had asked for almost two years in prison, said Dixon crossed the line between free speech protected under the First Amendment and criminal conduct when he told some clients to conceal what he taught them while undergoing government polygraphs

     O’Grady acknowledged “the gray areas” between the constitutional right to discuss the techniques and the crime of teaching someone to lie while undergoing a government polygraph. “There’s nothing unlawful about maybe 95 percent of the business he conducted,” the judge said.

      This crime matters because what he did endangers others,” said Anthony Phillips, a prosecutor with the Justice Department’s division that pursues corrupt public officials.

      Phillips said the real-world consequences of Dixon’s actions were significant. Dixon trained 70 to 100 people who paid him $1,000 for a day’s work, including federal contractors seeking to keep top-secret security clearances, Phillips said. “Mr. Dixon chose to enrich himself by teaching others how to convincingly lie, cheat and steal,” Phillips said


Not really buying this argument.  How is teaching someone something or making a recommendation a crime? 

I figured they'd throw him in jail for not paying taxes on the services he rendered...

Government usually doesn't care what people do as long as they get their cut of the take