TD2K
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Once you kill a cow, you gotta make a burger
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Post by TD2K on Feb 17, 2011 1:07:33 GMT -5
Aw, the bashing of tenants. Just like the good old MSN boards.
Brings a tear to the eye doesn't it?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 17, 2011 10:15:27 GMT -5
Also, I think it will make it easier for my dad if the info on the tenant comes from a 3rd party. He is very worst case scenario, and over thinks everything. Even if I step in and take point on the issue, and management issues going forward I think he'll question me more than someone else. (I don't mean that badly against him, he is very respectful. But he is my dad, so I usually want to ask him for advice, not the other way around). Owning property with family is tricky. This statement makes me wonder if your dad really has the personality to be the property manager. My son manages DH's rental house. When a new issue comes up, he tells the tenant "I'll have to talk to the owner". The tenant doesn't know he's the owner's stepson. But, yes, involving family does change the dynamics.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Feb 17, 2011 10:48:27 GMT -5
You can end a month to month lease for pretty much any reason you want. Evict them sooner rather than later. That has been my experience too. What does the original lease say? I am assuming they are month to month because the term of the original lease ended and there was a clause stating it would convert to month to month after that versus an automatic term renewal?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 11:08:37 GMT -5
Sorry, City, State or Federal Law trumps what might be written in a lease.
I used to work for a private railroad which had in its lease document that the lease was terminated if the tenant filed for bankruptcy. The provision was blatantly unenforceable and their attorneys knew it. I was told it was put in the lease because the law might change. Ha ha, yeah. The real reason was that the company wanted to intimidate folks into believing they would lose their lease if they filed BK. In fact they had specific rights and the company needed to follow the process like every other creditor.
ETA: I don't know where the O.P.'s property is located so I think she's doing the right thing by spending a few dollars and consulting with an attorney. And if these folks fight the eviction (and they might if we're talking older, and low income) the owner(s) need to get the noticing correct as well as the delivery otherwise the eviction has to be started all over again and will cost more money.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 17, 2011 11:30:10 GMT -5
My parents spoke to an attorney they've worked with before who reiterated that we can end the lease with proper notice (and no explanation). We spoke about it last night, and my dad is definitely feeling better. I think his initial reaction was from being too wrapped up in the emotions, and once that passed he could look at it more objectively.
I appreciate everyone's help and advice! The rest won't be easy, but I do hope that our current tenants find a place that they are happier with. I wouldn't want to live in a place where I hated every neighbor that moved in, so maybe they will find a 'community' that is more suited to them.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 17, 2011 11:38:48 GMT -5
"ETA: I don't know where the O.P.'s property is located so I think she's doing the right thing by spending a few dollars and consulting with an attorney. And if these folks fight the eviction (and they might if we're talking older, and low income) the owner(s) need to get the noticing correct as well as the delivery otherwise the eviction has to be started all over again and will cost more money. "
If OP were evicting them I would agree with this. Right now OP is not evicting the tenants, only putting them on notice that she won't be renewing the lease. If they fail to leave when the lease is terminated, then she would need to pursue eviction at that time.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Feb 17, 2011 12:08:32 GMT -5
[quote"ETA: I don't know where the O.P.'s property is located so I think she's doing the right thing by spending a few dollars and consulting with an attorney. And if these folks fight the eviction (and they might if we're talking older, and low income) the owner(s) need to get the noticing correct as well as the delivery otherwise the eviction has to be started all over again and will cost more money. " [/quote]
It is best to be sure of the notice requirements for your city/county/state before going ahead. If 90 days notice is required then be sure to give 90 days notice.
Also a good idea to send the notice by both certified and regular mail. Then you have proof it was delivered.
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on Feb 17, 2011 22:08:16 GMT -5
personally I wouldn't bother to "evict" them. I would inform them that effective in 30days the rent is going up 100/mos and then I would repeat that in 6 mos and 6 mos after that and 6 mos after that.... They will move. Most places have limits on how much and how fast you can raise the rent (so I wouldn't double it like someone said), but it sounds like it hasn't been adjusted as it should have been for some time.
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on Feb 17, 2011 22:55:14 GMT -5
The landlord-tenant laws are different in every State, and be sure to abide by them, and what your original lease states. Here in GA, a month to month lease requires 60 days notice to terminate. Your state maybe different.
The lease I use with tenants states that if they "Hold On" (which means they won't leave when given proper notice), their rent triples. I also have a clause that states that I can raise the rent upon giving 60 days notice.
And it's legal. It's been held up in Court. Then again, GA is a very landlord friendly state.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 18, 2011 8:08:43 GMT -5
personally I wouldn't bother to "evict" them. I would inform them that effective in 30days the rent is going up 100/mos and then I would repeat that in 6 mos and 6 mos after that and 6 mos after that.... They will move. Most places have limits on how much and how fast you can raise the rent (so I wouldn't double it like someone said), but it sounds like it hasn't been adjusted as it should have been for some time. So with the goal of having them out of there, you'd encourage them to raise the rent $100 every 6 months and keep losing out on the rent from the apartment they can't keep people in due to these tenants? The issue isn't that they aren't paying enough, it's that they're the reason they can't get an entire apartment's worth of rent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 9:23:06 GMT -5
Hoops,
I stand corrected. I should have used the word "terminated" as in terminating the tenancy. But based on what could happen, if I were the LL I would prepare myself for the worse case situation where the LL will need to follow through with an eviction. This means make sure you know what is required by giving proper "notice"; in CA, it often can mean physically attaching notice to the premises (aka nail & mail). When I was doing a lot of this work, we sent via regular mail, certified mail as well as employing a process server to do the posting. Otherwise you get to start the process all over which can mean a delay of several weeks or a couple of months. No fun if the tenant decides to stop paying you rent in the meantime.
"I would inform them that effective in 30days the rent is going up 100/mos and then I would repeat that in 6 mos and 6 mos after that and 6 mos after that.... They will move."
I totally disagree. A smart tenant or helpful social worker will report the LL to County or State housing authority for harassing the tenant. It will look really bad if the tenant is low income, old, or if she's considered disabled. Even if the LL is legally in the right, who needs the hassle of a government investigation? It will mean time off from work, hiring an attorney, et cetera. The issue isn't about this tenant's rent, it's the tenant's behavior to the other tenants.
And even if legally the LL is allowed to only give 30 days notice I would definitely give them at least 60 days, 90 if the request it. We are after all talking about an 11 year tenant who has an excellent record of paying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 9:51:08 GMT -5
"The lease I use with tenants states that if they "Hold On" (which means they won't leave when given proper notice), their rent triples. I also have a clause that states that I can raise the rent upon giving 60 days notice."
Another example of a difference in State Law. CA specifically requires 60 days notice for any rental which exceeds or 10% more of the lowest rent charged in a year period.
BTW I don't consider CA to be LL unfriendly (other than the City of San Francisco). For the most part I think it's pretty fair to both sides. The unlawful detainer process (eviction) is pretty quick. You follow the rules and you'll have your property back within 30 days.
The only unfair provision is the provision that the LL has to give 60 days notice to tenants who have occupied the property for a year or more but the tenant only has to give 30. But that requirement along with the limits on annual increases came about because of a Sacramento area property owner who decided to send 500 tenants a 30 day notice of termination so he could put the properties up for sale. It created a firestorm because people couldn't find replacement housing fast enough and rents exploded. I remember seeing the full paged ads placed by the apartment association members begging him to rescind the notices so people could find housing. He didn't so of course the lawmakers passed a bill which burdened every other LL in the state as well as affecting his other holdings.
Another example of how Time wounds all heels...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 21, 2011 20:22:40 GMT -5
It isn't fun to have to tell a tenant that they have to move. I had to do it once and it cost me rent and damages because she decided to take it out on my property but she was harassing the neighbors who would call me at all hours of the day and night. But it was the RIGHT thing to do.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 22, 2011 8:38:09 GMT -5
Have you actually said anything to the offending tenants? I warned mine a few times and she just "didn't get it" and then was shocked that I told her her lease would not be renewed. I told her why and then she said the neighbors "had it in for her." Probably did with her behavior. Bottom line was that I told her she had been warned and chose to continue the behavior that upset the neighbors which in turn bothered me and the choice she made was the choice she had to live with. I found out the next place she moved to got shot at so I would assume she didn't change her evil ways!!!!
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Feb 22, 2011 8:43:36 GMT -5
Re: age discrimination, isn't the threshold 40 years of age? Once they're out, try to rent the unit to someone over the age of 40. Ask your lawyer what the age threshold is.
Having been a landlord before, I can say that when one tenant is much older, quieter, and more stable than others, it will cause problems. My former rental property was in a neighborhood transitioning from primarily family/owner-occupied to primarily student rental. I myself turned my owner-occupied place into a rental (first to a family, then eventually to a series of students.) There were problems not only within a rental house, but from house to house as families lived next to lots of students with their late night traffic, partying, parking on the front lawn, etc.
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