973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 28, 2013 15:26:50 GMT -5
It's too consistent to be a cell phone/fat finger snafu. Or it could just be an error due to people typing quickly...I don't proof my posts that well because it is just a message board I think of posting like talking. I type the words however I most often spell them. Ofcourse I know the difference between their and there. When I'm typing a post I kind of hear the word in my head as I type. I don't see the word typed on a paper. After I read what I typed I see those mistakes, but I don't make them because I dont' know which spelling is corect. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 15:29:40 GMT -5
Or it could just be an error due to people typing quickly...I don't proof my posts that well because it is just a message board I think of posting like talking. I type the words however I most often spell them. Ofcourse I know the difference between their and there. When I'm typing a post I kind of hear the word in my head as I type. I don't see the word typed on a paper. After I read what I typed I see those mistakes, but I don't make them because I dont' know which spelling is corect. That is what I was saying...I do know the difference between to, too, two (for example) but when I am flying through a post I could very easily type the wrong one...since I don't proof messages (seriously people, it's a message board!lol) I'm not going to catch my mistakes. But it isn't because I don't know which is the correct word. I do admit that i have to think when using "then" or "than"...I don't know why but I can never keep those straight.... |
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 28, 2013 15:33:48 GMT -5
Which is what I said. They only need to be ready to start algebra in 9th grade. They don't need to be done with it in middle school. Have you been posting without reading the posts again?  Actually you said 8th grade...which is still middle school (middle school here goes from 6th through 8th)...and I still disagree. I said my Dd took algebra in 8th grade, but they only need to be able to take it by 9th. the vast majority are ready to take it by 8th grade. |
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 28, 2013 15:37:02 GMT -5
I think of posting like talking. I type the words however I most often spell them. Ofcourse I know the difference between their and there. When I'm typing a post I kind of hear the word in my head as I type. I don't see the word typed on a paper. After I read what I typed I see those mistakes, but I don't make them because I dont' know which spelling is corect. That is what I was saying...I do know the difference between to, too, two (for example) but when I am flying through a post I could very easily type the wrong one...since I don't proof messages (seriously people, it's a message board!lol) I'm not going to catch my mistakes. But it isn't because I don't know which is the correct word. I do admit that i have to think when using "then" or "than"...I don't know why but I can never keep those straight.... I have a hard time with affect and effect. Not sure why... Actually, I wasn't really referring to people on this message board (though there are often grammatical errors). I was talking about people I have come in contact with in the business world. I have gotten emails from people who apparently have no idea the difference between to, too and two. I am not sure if they need to read their correspondence more closely or what, but as a professional they really shouldn't be sending emails out that way. On a message board - yeah, not that big of a deal... though I will often go back and edit my post if I notice a mistake. Mainly because it annoys me that I wrote it wrong. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 15:41:16 GMT -5
That is what I was saying...I do know the difference between to, too, two (for example) but when I am flying through a post I could very easily type the wrong one...since I don't proof messages (seriously people, it's a message board!lol) I'm not going to catch my mistakes. But it isn't because I don't know which is the correct word. I do admit that i have to think when using "then" or "than"...I don't know why but I can never keep those straight.... I have a hard time with affect and effect. Not sure why... Actually, I wasn't really referring to people on this message board (though there are often grammatical errors). I was talking about people I have come in contact with in the business world. I have gotten emails from people who apparently have no idea the difference between to, too and two. I am not sure if they need to read their correspondence more closely or what, but as a professional they really shouldn't be sending emails out that way. On a message board - yeah, not that big of a deal... though I will often go back and edit my post if I notice a mistake. Mainly because it annoys me that I wrote it wrong. I agree...I proof my professional correspondence...and I've been known to change a sentence if I'm not sure that I am saying something properly...lol Now that you mention it, I have this about affect and effect, too...again, I think I get them right but knowing which one to use doesn't come natural to me. But I own the fact that English isn't my strong suit...fortunately I currently work with a bunch of brazilians so they don't realize if I make a mistake :-p |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 15:43:09 GMT -5
Actually you said 8th grade...which is still middle school (middle school here goes from 6th through 8th)...and I still disagree. I said my Dd took algebra in 8th grade, but they only need to be able to take it by 9th. the vast majority are ready to take it by 8th grade. I don't understand delaying it until high school. Even "back in the day" I had algebra in middle school. Im not sure how you would get all of your maths in if you don't start algebra until 9th grade. |
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 28, 2013 15:53:13 GMT -5
I said my Dd took algebra in 8th grade, but they only need to be able to take it by 9th. the vast majority are ready to take it by 8th grade. I don't understand delaying it until high school. Even "back in the day" I had algebra in middle school. Im not sure how you would get all of your maths in if you don't start algebra until 9th grade. I took pre-algebra in 8th grade, algebra in 9th, geometry in 10th, algebra 2 in 11th and some AP level business math in 12th grade. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 15:56:32 GMT -5
I don't understand delaying it until high school. Even "back in the day" I had algebra in middle school. Im not sure how you would get all of your maths in if you don't start algebra until 9th grade. I took pre-algebra in 8th grade, algebra in 9th, geometry in 10th, algebra 2 in 11th and some AP level business math in 12th grade. I had a lot more math...I had 4 years of algebra (pre-algebra up to Algebra 3), trig, geometry and calculus...I wouldn't have gotten all of them in I waited until high school to start algebra. Not that I use any of it except algebra...shit, I can't honestly remember what I even learned in the other classes.... |
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 28, 2013 15:59:23 GMT -5
I took pre-algebra in 8th grade, algebra in 9th, geometry in 10th, algebra 2 in 11th and some AP level business math in 12th grade. I had a lot more math...I had 4 years of algebra (pre-algebra up to Algebra 3), trig, geometry and calculus...I wouldn't have gotten all of them in I waited until high school to start algebra. Not that I use any of it except algebra...shit, I can't honestly remember what I even learned in the other classes.... You must have liked math a lot better than I did  . I loved English Literature and World History. Yeah, I am not YM material |
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 28, 2013 16:01:52 GMT -5
It's too consistent to be a cell phone/fat finger snafu. Or it could just be an error due to people typing quickly...I don't proof my posts that well because it is just a message board Lol! I'm not talking about you! Keep your pants on! |
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 28, 2013 16:02:42 GMT -5
I think that a combination of factors is causing the emphasis on English. First, the large influx of both legal and illegal immigrants over the past 30 years has resulted in a significant increase in the number of students who come to school with a very limited background in English. The focus on more English is probably intended to help these children catch up. There is probably a belief that better English skills will help students in many facets of their life. Including learning math and science. And, as another poster pointed out, English teachers are a dime a dozen compared to math and science teachers. I remember Dad talking about how hard it was to find math and science teachers back in the 1960's. You can't add more math classes if you can't hire the teachers.
By the way, I don't think that math and science teachers get paid more than the more readily available English and social studies teachers. Maybe that's why we've had a long term shortage of math and science teachers. People with math and science skills don't want to teach because they can sell their services elsewhere for significantly more money. Teacher contracts ignore the principles of supply and demand, which hold that you can increase the supply of a commodity (math and science teachers) by increasing the price you are willing to pay. Failure to adequately address the price component of the equation constricts the supply of math and science teachers.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 16:02:45 GMT -5
I had a lot more math...I had 4 years of algebra (pre-algebra up to Algebra 3), trig, geometry and calculus...I wouldn't have gotten all of them in I waited until high school to start algebra. Not that I use any of it except algebra...shit, I can't honestly remember what I even learned in the other classes.... You must have liked math a lot better than I did . I loved English Literature and World History. Yeah, I am not YM material Not really...I hated anything beyond algebra...but I also hated enligh lit...i want to read a book just to enjoy reading...I don't to disect the god damn thing!lol Oh, and when it came to poetry I am pretty sure she passed me just to get me out of her class..lol |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 16:04:12 GMT -5
Or it could just be an error due to people typing quickly...I don't proof my posts that well because it is just a message board Lol! I'm not talking about you! Keep your pants on! Errr...Im supposed to have pants on  |
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 28, 2013 16:04:55 GMT -5
Or it could just be an error due to people typing quickly...I don't proof my posts that well because it is just a message board Lol! I'm not talking about you! Keep your pants on! Don't torture her by making her keep her pants on! |
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 28, 2013 16:05:31 GMT -5
Lol! I'm not talking about you! Keep your pants on! Errr...Im supposed to have pants on True. Unwad your panties? |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 16:05:38 GMT -5
Lol! I'm not talking about you! Keep your pants on! Don't torture her by making her keep her pants on! KEEP them on?? Now I have to find them and PUT them on :-( |
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 28, 2013 16:07:01 GMT -5
You must have liked math a lot better than I did . I loved English Literature and World History. Yeah, I am not YM material Not really...I hated anything beyond algebra...but I also hated enligh lit...i want to read a book just to enjoy reading...I don't to disect the god damn thing!lol Oh, and when it came to poetry I am pretty sure she passed me just to get me out of her class..lol I think my 7th grade home economics teacher passed me out of pity . I had to sew a pillow  . I am pretty sure I had the ugliest pillow in class. Like I needed to learn to sew... I haven't picked up a needle and thread since  |
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 28, 2013 16:10:39 GMT -5
Don't torture her by making her keep her pants on! KEEP them on?? Now I have to find them and PUT them on :-( At least locate them in case you need them in a hurry. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 28, 2013 16:15:52 GMT -5
Not really...I hated anything beyond algebra...but I also hated enligh lit...i want to read a book just to enjoy reading...I don't to disect the god damn thing!lol Oh, and when it came to poetry I am pretty sure she passed me just to get me out of her class..lol I am think my 7th grade home economics teacher passed me out of pity . I had to sew a pillow . I am pretty sure I had the ugliest pillow in class. Like I needed to learn to sew... I haven't picked up a needle and thread since LMAO! I forgot all about my painful stint in home ec....sewing was awful! I also haven't attempted to sew since |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 28, 2013 16:19:23 GMT -5
I agree that a certain level proficiency in writing must be met. A person needs to be able to effectively communicate. But how much time does she really need to achieve that level? She will have English every year from now until she graduates and then she will have several courses in college. Plus it is reinforced in all the classes that require papers. She would have to be willfully trying not to learn how to write to still not know the difference between than and then. From everything I am hearing from the school, it sounds like the 2 ELA classes have nothing to do with her education and everything to do with supporting the staffs schedule and keeping costs down. I actually understand that. I just wanted to know how common it was and whether other parents would have a problem with it. Sadly, reading this message board and others, over the years, I'd have to believe taking English every year for twelve years doesn't seem to be quite enough. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 16:20:18 GMT -5
I took pre-algebra in 8th grade, algebra in 9th, geometry in 10th, algebra 2 in 11th and some AP level business math in 12th grade. I had a lot more math...I had 4 years of algebra (pre-algebra up to Algebra 3), trig, geometry and calculus...I wouldn't have gotten all of them in I waited until high school to start algebra. Not that I use any of it except algebra...shit, I can't honestly remember what I even learned in the other classes.... I had pre algebra in the 7th, algebra in the 8th, algebra again in the 9th, geometry in the 10th, algebra 2 in the 11th, and trig in 12th. In college I started with pre-calc (which had more algebra) and went all the way to Calc 2. I wanted DD to have a really good base in algebra, because it was used a lot in the higher maths. |
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 28, 2013 16:26:48 GMT -5
I took pre-algebra in 8th grade, algebra in 9th, geometry in 10th, algebra 2 in 11th and some AP level business math in 12th grade. I had a lot more math...I had 4 years of algebra (pre-algebra up to Algebra 3), trig, geometry and calculus...I wouldn't have gotten all of them in I waited until high school to start algebra. Not that I use any of it except algebra...shit, I can't honestly remember what I even learned in the other classes.... My high school didn't offer anything beyond trig/pre-calc and I still ended up with a degree in engineering. In fact, my university preferred if you didn't have calc in high school so they didn't have to worry about you learning it wrong. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 28, 2013 16:28:18 GMT -5
I am think my 7th grade home economics teacher passed me out of pity . I had to sew a pillow . I am pretty sure I had the ugliest pillow in class. Like I needed to learn to sew... I haven't picked up a needle and thread since LMAO! I forgot all about my painful stint in home ec....sewing was awful! I also haven't attempted to sew since OMG! Despite all the intervening years, I remember Home Economics! We had to make an apron. Apron making was the only class I ever failed outright.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 16:31:03 GMT -5
I'm not going to read the whole thread, but English language arts isn't a single subject. You have a reading strand, a vocabulary strand, a grammar strand, and a writing strand. I'm not even going to mention the spelling strand or the speech strand.
You expect a teacher to cover all that in 50 minutes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 16:41:30 GMT -5
I'm not going to read the whole thread, but English language arts isn't a single subject. You have a reading strand, a vocabulary strand, a grammar strand, and a writing strand. I'm not even going to mention the spelling strand or the speech strand. You expect a teacher to cover all that in 50 minutes? OK. Dumb question, but what is a strand? |
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Aug 28, 2013 17:51:59 GMT -5
I feel so old, compared to some of you. I used an abacus in school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 17:52:12 GMT -5
Pooks, it is a subject you have to teach. An eighth grade math teacher teaches eighth grade math. He/she has one textbook. He/she moves linearly . . . from start to finish.
An English teacher actually teaches four strands/subjects, each with a separate book. I have a literature book, I have a vocabulary workbook, and I have a combined grammar/writing book. There is a lot of overlap in the upper grades, but you are lucky to cover 1/3 of any book. In middle school, you are more likely to see the different strands/subjects isolated. Grammar is taught more in isolation (parts of speech, etc.) than it is in high school (errors in writing).
The idea that English teachers can teach out of three textbooks and cover everything while everyone else teaches out of one textbook in the same 50 minute period is laughable.
That's why your child has two English language arts classes. In middle school here, we call it literature (reading) and grammar. Writing is taught by both. |
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 28, 2013 20:04:14 GMT -5
So, I do this intentionally at my school--and not because I cannot find math teachers.
I have a seventh through twelfth grades at my school.
My seventh graders have a 78 minute daily average of language arts + a 60 minute daily average of social studies. I expect my dual-endorsed teacher (which was a requirement of that position) to synthesize social studies and language arts into humanities.
My eighth graders have a two-period block of language arts which averages 123 daily minutes.
Research shows that 90 minutes of reading instruction is essential in primary grades. This doesn't count writing or speech instruction.
By middle school grades it about 45 minutes of reading instruction--again not accounting for writing or speaking.
Where I live we refer to the strands as:
1. The five facets of Reading: phonics, phonemic awareness, vocabulary, fluency, and comprehension
2. Writing--we focus on three genres: narrative, expository, and persuasive which are coupled with the writing process and the six writing traits of ideas, organization, voice, word choice, sentence fluency, and conventions
3. Speaking & Listening--how to give a speech and how to listen to one
Yes, I do think that many minutes are necessary. For my building, it has nothing to do with a teacher shortage, but what's best for kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 20:13:38 GMT -5
You explained it much better than I could, Chloe, since I teach an upper grade where we only have a single period. But we also expect a certain mastery from the middle schools. Our expectations don't always work out, but then it becomes a matter of individual remediation, not direct instruction.
Pooks, you should actually be applauding your middle school's decision to invest in Language Arts instruction. Half of the ACT score falls in that category (reading and language). The other one half is divided between math and science. They also offer a writing test. Two-thirds of the SAT falls into English Language Arts instruction (Verbal and writing); they used to just double the verbal score for National Merit when my son was in school back in the 1990s.
We put a lot of emphasis on the STEM subjects, and they are important. But ELA is also important when dealing with the lower grades.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 28, 2013 23:07:38 GMT -5
I took pre-algebra in 8th grade, algebra in 9th, geometry in 10th, algebra 2 in 11th and some AP level business math in 12th grade. I had a lot more math...I had 4 years of algebra (pre-algebra up to Algebra 3), trig, geometry and calculus...I wouldn't have gotten all of them in I waited until high school to start algebra. Not that I use any of it except algebra...shit, I can't honestly remember what I even learned in the other classes.... Trying to adjust your names I think Alegebra 3 is now called precalc and Trig is taught as part of geom normally. My DD did algebra 1 in 8th grade, Geom in 9th Algebra 2 in 10th and precalc in 11th. She had had enough of that track by the middle of last year so this year she opted to bag calc and take AP stats. A more math oriented kid could have taken calc in their senior year starting with algebra in 8th grade easily. If they started algebra 1 in 9th, and really wanted to get to calc they could take geom at the same time as algebra 1 or 2. I would be fine wiht my kid only going up to precalc in HS and taking calc in college if they needed it. Personally I haven't seen very many students who took higher math or science in HS and having it do much good in college. The ones who went on to get an engineering or comp sci degree took math up to precalc or calc in HS, but took it again in college. They didn't even try to skip it because they had already taken it in HS. The vast majority of students who took calc ab or ap physics in HS and tried to take the next class above it ended up dropping/changing majors. Everyone takes English every year of their K-12 schooling and almost never question having to take it in college but for some reason think that math should be different. If I could wave my magic wand, it would be to change the seventh grade pre algebra and make it a year of fractions and mental math. It is amazing how many student/adults don't know that the answer the calculator said is only as good as the numbers punched into it.  |
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