Australian baseball player killed by OK teens - just because

[cereb]

"People are accountable for their actions."

In most instances, yes they are.

[swamp]

Aug 24, 2013 17:30:43 GMT -5 cereb said:

Aug 23, 2013 17:15:59 GMT -5 frankq said:

LOL! I have no fear of the piece of metal unless it's in the possession of a fucktard. I own several of my own (guns, not fucktards) but lets be realistic here for a moment. The presence of a gun increases the odds that someone is going to die during the committing of a crime or the attempt at suicide. Exponentially. If you can't at least admit that fact, you just are not living in reality.

Can I own a fucktard?  That would be pretty cool. 

[cereb]

Aug 24, 2013 18:58:14 GMT -5 swamp said:

Aug 24, 2013 17:30:43 GMT -5 cereb said:

LOL! I have no fear of the piece of metal unless it's in the possession of a fucktard. I own several of my own (guns, not fucktards) but lets be realistic here for a moment. The presence of a gun increases the odds that someone is going to die during the committing of a crime or the attempt at suicide. Exponentially. If you can't at least admit that fact, you just are not living in reality.

Can I own a fucktard?  That would be pretty cool. 

A true fucktard can always be "owned".

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 23, 2013 20:44:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 23, 2013 17:05:24 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mr. Lane wouldn't have died if he'd been wearing a bullet-proof vest. Yet nobody here is suggesting that everybody go out and buy a bullet-proof vest.

Why? Because it's an absurd overreaction to a random shooting. Nobody in their right mind would suggest something so radical in response to this incident.

Yet here we are debating how much less likely it is that Mr. Lane would've died had the killers not had a gun. How about: who on Earth cares? Unless you think banning all guns is a reasonable response to a random shooting.

really?  that is the ONLY response you can think of?

wow.

Not that the board couldn't use more rhetorical one-liners, but would sir care to articulate his grievance?

I take it you feel banning guns would be an appropriate response to this crime?

The presence of a gun increases the odds that someone is going to die during the committing of a crime or the attempt at suicide. Exponentially. If you can't at least admit that fact, you just are not living in reality.

"Exponentially" is not a synonym for "greatly". "Exponential" refers to a quantity that grows or shrinks at a rate proportional to its current size.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

[mmhmm]

I don't think there are many people (if any) here who are in favor of banning guns, Virgil.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 24, 2013 20:29:48 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I don't think there are many people (if any) here who are in favor of banning guns, Virgil.

I thought so too. Not all guns, at any rate.

Which is why I'm (still) wondering why 50% of the discussion in this thread is devoted to how much less dead Mr. Lane would be without guns. Perhaps I've wrongly assumed there was a statement about prevention or policy in there somewhere.

[mmhmm]

It's not about confiscating, or eliminating all guns, Virgil.  It's about better controls than are in existence currently.  At least, it is for most people.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 24, 2013 21:14:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

It's not about confiscating, or eliminating all guns, Virgil.  It's about better controls than are in existence currently.  At least, it is for most people.

Controls how? My understanding was that the gun used was stolen.

Does the US need more laws preventing the theft of guns? Or more unenforceable, certain-to-be-ignored laws demanding that US homeowners bubble wrap their guns, lock them in a safe, and hide the key in their removable fake molars to render guns sufficiently useless in any imaginable self-defense scenario?

Considering not even Canada's gun laws are that strict in most provinces, we could see a mass migration to the gun-friendly haven that is Canada.

[mmhmm]

In this case, yes, the gun was stolen.  In other cases, Virgil, the guns have been obtained legally.  There are other factors involved, as well ... including how these incidents are handled in the courts, etc.  I'm not going to go into each and every detail here.  I don't resort to hyperbole, to twisting, or to spin.  Most of us who are concerned do want to see more done about how ALL of this is handled.  Whether people bubble-wrap their guns, I don't give a flying fig.  As I don't do hyperbole, twisting, or spin, I also don't jump to the absurd trying to make myself right. I do expect guns to be kept in locked gun safes if children are in residence, yes.

[Virgil Showlion]

I do expect guns to be kept in locked gun safes if children are in residence, yes.

I would expect the same thing.

[mmhmm]

Aug 24, 2013 21:55:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I do expect guns to be kept in locked gun safes if children are in residence, yes.

I would expect the same thing.

What you and I expect, Virgil, is too often not the case.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 24, 2013 23:20:40 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Aug 24, 2013 21:55:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I would expect the same thing.

What you and I expect, Virgil, is too often not the case.

Too often is not the case where you and I expect that which not is jointly expected, I often expect in these cases.

[mmhmm]

*blink*  Alrighty, then! 

[frankq]

The presence of a gun increases the odds that someone is going to die during the committing of a crime or the attempt at suicide. Exponentially. If you can't at least admit that fact, you just are not living in reality.

You can certainly say that....On the other hand, that crime would not be committed if not for the mindset of the perpetrator. The fact that a criminal has planned a crime and armed himself would increase the odds that somebody is going to get hurt. If a crime is not contemplated in the first place, a gun is a non issue. There are many, many instances where the gun, in the hands of potential victims, ends the crime instantly. There is no way any of you guys are going to make the case that removal of guns will deter crime. It has been shown repeatedly that the opposite is true. Guns are an emotional topic, and no amount of data is going to change the views of people that fear guns. While you yourself may not, many in the country do.

[billisonboard]

Aug 25, 2013 8:32:59 GMT -5 frankq said:

... Guns are an emotional topic, ...

[frankq]

What's you point bill? That the media can't help themselves and feels the need to over-report and sensationalize every story that fits the socio-political agenda of those that control said media outlet? Of course, try to limit that "Constitutional Right", and all hell breaks loose in the media. After all, the literal Constitution is their private domain. Everybody else has to navigate an "interpretation" of it.  Not that it makes it any better, but this guy looks to have had no intention of hurting kids. I heard it said (CNN I think) that he asked for the cops. Starting to look like a case of suicide by cop but he lost his balls......

Keep making these jerk-offs famous and we'll have copy-cat crimes into the next century. That's what most of these crimes are.

[frankq]

The DeKalb County Public Defender's office said in a statement Wednesday that it was representing Hill, calling him "a young man with a long history of mental health issues."

One of the office's attorneys, Claudia Saari, wrote in an email that a preliminary hearing is scheduled for Sept. 5.

Hill pleaded guilty in July in Henry County, south of Atlanta, to making terroristic threats. Court records show that he was sentenced to three years' probation and anger counseling. Because that charge is a felony in Georgia, Hill would have been barred from possessing a weapon.


usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/22/20132468-a-plea-for-help-georgia-school-shooting-suspects-lonely-life?lite

And for all you judges in Georgia, maybe it would be a good idea to keep better track of guys like this and come up with a little better plan than "anger counseling" for a man with "a long history of mental health issues" that makes terroristic threats. ....Just saying...

[djAdvocate]

Aug 24, 2013 17:04:41 GMT -5 frankq said:

i think the focus should be on mental health issues, which are an epidemic, imo. but you seem to think this is all about the object for me.

I didn't mention you at all, but all this "it wouldn't have happened if not for the gun" nonsense coming in from the usual anti-gunners is getting old.

what i said could easily be interpreted as "anti-gun".  what i said was that the gun made the commission of this crime EASIER.  it doesn't even seem debatable to me.  i am sorry if you meant to exclude me from the discussion, but i felt included.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 24, 2013 20:28:10 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 23, 2013 20:44:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

really?  that is the ONLY response you can think of?

wow.

Not that the board couldn't use more rhetorical one-liners, but would sir care to articulate his grievance?

I take it you feel banning guns would be an appropriate response to this crime?

you do, eh?  and here i thought you were good at interpreting posts.

[billisonboard]

Aug 25, 2013 10:38:45 GMT -5 frankq said:

What's you point bill? ...

All you need is love.