Australian baseball player killed by OK teens - just because

[djAdvocate]

Aug 21, 2013 20:45:32 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

 Three teens (all "minors") were bored... but they had a handgun.

 If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

 Spin THAT.

not to put one human life above another, but this guy was, by all accounts, a really terrific human being, as well.  he was an athlete, he was loved by virtually everyone, young, fit, had his whole life in front of him.  a life full of great promise.

gone, with a few cc's of powder and a few grams of lead.

senseless doesn't even come close to describing it.

[Deleted]

There are many ways to kill other than with a gun. Just ask any inmate.

 When dangers are many, you do what you can to reduce them... and to minimize those dangers.
You put a screen in front of the fireplace. You avoid ferocious wild animals. You put a fence with a locked gate around your in-ground swimming pool. You do not picnic in the passing lane of the InterState Highway.
 And you do what you can to keep guns out of the hands of crazed, deluded and malicious people.

 If, in the process of securing safety, you inconvenience people a tiny bit, it is a burden that must be borne and shared.

[zibazinski]

Where's the Al and Jesse show? Obama isn't saying these could be his kids, either, huh?Curiously silent, all of them.

[billisonboard]

[Tennesseer]

Aug 22, 2013 8:42:33 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Where's the Al and Jesse show? Obama isn't saying these could be his kids, either, huh?Curiously silent, all of them.

I thought these three boys were caught, arrested and charged within 48 hour?  I didn't know the police immediately determined the boys were innocent and the shooting was self-defense.

i learned something new today.

[Malarky]

Aug 21, 2013 20:45:32 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

 Three teens (all "minors") were bored... but they had a handgun.

 If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

 Spin THAT.

Well, let's see.  I was often a bored teenager and I had access to guns.

My children are often bored teenagers and have access to guns.


*The big difference is that we wouldn't even consider shooting someone as an alternative to boredom. 
       I'd say it's the people, not the guns that are the problem.

[EVT1]

Aug 22, 2013 8:42:33 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Where's the Al and Jesse show? Obama isn't saying these could be his kids, either, huh?Curiously silent, all of them.

And another poster inserts race into it.........Right wing media beat you to it- and so did Pappy and Frankq

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 22, 2013 9:34:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 22, 2013 8:42:33 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Where's the Al and Jesse show? Obama isn't saying these could be his kids, either, huh?Curiously silent, all of them.

I thought these three boys were caught, arrested and charged within 48 hour?  I didn't know the police immediately determined the boys were innocent and the shooting was self-defense.

i learned something new today.

I thought everyone's ire was piqued in the Zimmerman case because Mr. Zimmerman was white, Mr. Martin was black, and Mr. Zimmerman had (supposedly) profiled him, followed him, and confronted him for that reason.

Now you're claiming the race issue is that police believed Mr. Zimmerman's self-defense claim and didn't charge him?

Which of the two is it?

Why not simply argue that this shooting wasn't racially motivated? The shooters didn't go after Mr. Lane because he was white. He just happened to be passing by at the time. That's a nice, clean cut argument.

Instead you seem to be arguing that the shooting was racially motivated, but the circumstances are still totally different from the Zimmerman case because the police immediately charged the suspects in this case.

[workpublic]

If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

Spin THAT.


they would have stabbed, run him over or beat him to death(perhaps with a tool or blunt object).

or as you contend, the gun made them evil and made them do it.

[workpublic]

The big difference is that we wouldn't even consider shooting someone as an alternative to boredom.
I'd say it's the people, not the guns that are the problem.

of course it is. but some can't blame certain types of behavior cause it doesn't fit their agenda.

[billisonboard]

Aug 22, 2013 13:56:56 GMT -5 workpublic said:

If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

Spin THAT.


they would have stabbed, run him over or beat him to death(perhaps with a tool or blunt object).

or as you contend, the gun made them evil and made them do it.

The man would have had a chance against a knife, a vehicle, or a beating. The gun from a distance, no chance at all.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 22, 2013 14:02:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 22, 2013 13:56:56 GMT -5 workpublic said:

If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

Spin THAT.


they would have stabbed, run him over or beat him to death(perhaps with a tool or blunt object).

or as you contend, the gun made them evil and made them do it.

The man would have had a chance against a knife, a vehicle, or a beating. The gun from a distance, no chance at all.

Mr. Lane was a dead man the instant the men got it in their minds they were going to kill him. If any of us went insane and decided to kill a random stranger, I daresay nothing could physically prevent us from doing so.

[billisonboard]

Aug 22, 2013 14:23:43 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 22, 2013 14:02:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The man would have had a chance against a knife, a vehicle, or a beating. The gun from a distance, no chance at all.

Mr. Lane was a dead man the instant the men got it in their minds they were going to kill him. If any of us went insane and decided to kill a random stranger, I daresay nothing could physically prevent us from doing so.

Disagree.  I have no doubt that Mr. Lane would have been able to physically stop me from physically beating him to death.  Whether he could have escaped the three if they had decided to come into close physical contact is an open question.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 22, 2013 13:48:38 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 22, 2013 9:34:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I thought these three boys were caught, arrested and charged within 48 hour?  I didn't know the police immediately determined the boys were innocent and the shooting was self-defense.

i learned something new today.

I thought everyone's ire was piqued in the Zimmerman case because Mr. Zimmerman was white, Mr. Martin was black, and Mr. Zimmerman had (supposedly) profiled him, followed him, and confronted him for that reason.

you know what?  that is not what bothered me the most about that case.  what bothered me the most is that TM was a teen, and was unarmed.  i didn't really care about his race, but i found Zimmerman's remarks on that subject troubling.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 22, 2013 13:56:56 GMT -5 workpublic said:

If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

Spin THAT.


they would have stabbed, run him over or beat him to death(perhaps with a tool or blunt object).

or as you contend, the gun made them evil and made them do it.

no, they were evil first.  the gun just increased their odds of "success".

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 22, 2013 14:43:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 22, 2013 14:23:43 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mr. Lane was a dead man the instant the men got it in their minds they were going to kill him. If any of us went insane and decided to kill a random stranger, I daresay nothing could physically prevent us from doing so.

Disagree.  I have no doubt that Mr. Lane would have been able to physically stop me from physically beating him to death.  Whether he could have escaped the three if they had decided to come into close physical contact is an open question.

The point was that you don't have to beat him to death. You could throw a brick at his head. Or run him over with your car. Or stab him to death.

Three guys on one, with at least one of the attackers armed: I'm sorry but you're a dead man. The only thing stopping them is if they're satisfied with injuring you short of killing you.

[billisonboard]

Aug 22, 2013 14:52:00 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 22, 2013 14:43:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Disagree.  I have no doubt that Mr. Lane would have been able to physically stop me from physically beating him to death.  Whether he could have escaped the three if they had decided to come into close physical contact is an open question.

The point was that you don't have to beat him to death. You could throw a brick at his head. Or run him over with your car. Or stab him to death.

Three guys on one, with at least one of the attackers armed: I'm sorry but you're a dead man. The only thing stopping them is if they're satisfied with injuring you short of killing you.

Yes, and the brick could kill him instantly or put him in a state that he could not fend off a second hit. Or not. The car hitting him could kill him instantly or put him in a state that he could not move off of the roadway so he could be run over again. Or not. The first stab wound could kill him instantly or put him in a state that he could not fend off a second stabbing attempt. Or not.

In any of the above, three guys on one does greatly diminish the odds of survival.

And yes, if one of them is armed (which is exactly the point), you are dead.

[Deleted]

 The possession of a loaded firearm made their impulsive demand for instant gratification ("thrill kill") possible.
 If the little thrillkillers had to actually exert themselves, and risk being injured... perhaps they would have opted not to do so.

 The problem is NOT just the individual people, IMHO, the problem lies with our Pop(ular) Culture that puts Violence and Dominance on a pedestal... and derides things like compassion and humaneness.

[mmhmm]

I thought everyone's ire was piqued in the Zimmerman case because Mr. Zimmerman was white, Mr. Martin was black, and Mr. Zimmerman had (supposedly) profiled him, followed him, and confronted him for that reason.

You thought wrongly.  I'm sure different people had different reasons for their negative reactions to what happened, but race never entered into mine and I don't think it entered into that of several others.

[mmhmm]

Aug 22, 2013 14:50:55 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 22, 2013 13:56:56 GMT -5 workpublic said:

If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

Spin THAT.


they would have stabbed, run him over or beat him to death(perhaps with a tool or blunt object).

or as you contend, the gun made them evil and made them do it.

no, they were evil first.  the gun just increased their odds of "success".

I think the gun also increased their "bravado" (if one can call shooting someone in the back from a moving car "bravado").  It's a lot easier to kill someone if you don't have to come in physical contact with that person, don't have to look them in the eye, and don't even have to get out of your car.  Running over him would possibly have damaged the car, and he might have been able to jump out of the way.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 22, 2013 13:48:38 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 22, 2013 9:34:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I thought these three boys were caught, arrested and charged within 48 hour?  I didn't know the police immediately determined the boys were innocent and the shooting was self-defense.

i learned something new today.

I thought everyone's ire was piqued in the Zimmerman case because Mr. Zimmerman was white, Mr. Martin was black, and Mr. Zimmerman had (supposedly) profiled him, followed him, and confronted him for that reason.

Now you're claiming the race issue is that police believed Mr. Zimmerman's self-defense claim and didn't charge him?

Which of the two is it?

Why not simply argue that this shooting wasn't racially motivated? The shooters didn't go after Mr. Lane because he was white. He just happened to be passing by at the time. That's a nice, clean cut argument.

Instead you seem to be arguing that the shooting was racially motivated, but the circumstances are still totally different from the Zimmerman case because the police immediately charged the suspects in this case.

Why not bring up the race issue with Zibzanski? She's the one that is making this race shit up. I made no inference the Lane shooting was racially motivated.  Quit reading shit that isn't there.

The only thing I said was the boys were arrested and charged with murder quickly (unlike Zimmerman).  That's it.

[Virgil Showlion]

The only thing I said was the boys were arrested and charged with murder quickly (unlike Zimmerman). That's it.

You said it in response to the question "Where's the Al and Jesse show?"

Forgive me if that implies you were answering her question, and for assuming that your answer wasn't "Mr. Jackson and Mr. Sharpton aren't interested in cases where a perpetrator is immediately charged."

Why not bring up the race issue with Zibzanski?

I did, in Reply #12.

I thought both you might know something that I didn't.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 22, 2013 16:49:25 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The only thing I said was the boys were arrested and charged with murder quickly (unlike Zimmerman). That's it.

You said it in response to the question "Where's the Al and Jesse show?"

Forgive me if that implies you were answering her question, and for assuming that your answer wasn't "Mr. Jackson and Mr. Sharpton aren't interested in cases where a perpetrator is immediately charged."

Why not bring up the race issue with Zibzanski?

I did, in Reply #12.

I thought both you might know something that I didn't.

My response to Zibzanski was a sarcastic remark to her race baiting post.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 22, 2013 15:54:22 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Aug 22, 2013 14:50:55 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

no, they were evil first.  the gun just increased their odds of "success".

I think the gun also increased their "bravado" (if one can call shooting someone in the back from a moving car "bravado").  It's a lot easier to kill someone if you don't have to come in physical contact with that person, don't have to look them in the eye, and don't even have to get out of your car.  Running over him would possibly have damaged the car, and he might have been able to jump out of the way.

agreed.  guns are for cowards. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 22, 2013 17:53:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 22, 2013 15:54:22 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think the gun also increased their "bravado" (if one can call shooting someone in the back from a moving car "bravado").  It's a lot easier to kill someone if you don't have to come in physical contact with that person, don't have to look them in the eye, and don't even have to get out of your car.  Running over him would possibly have damaged the car, and he might have been able to jump out of the way.

agreed.  guns are for cowards. 

Amen.

What happened to the days when random strangers were beaten to death with good old-fashioned American fists and knuckles? Kids today basically pull a little trigger and all the work is done for them. Back when I was a lad you needed hard work, perseverance, and genuine backbone to murder some random jogger.

And don't get me started on these group killings. Three guys to kill one jogger? Back in my day, they'd laugh your yellow belly out of the neighbourhood unless you went solo, blindfolded, with one hand tied behind your back. We used to call those kinds of killings "hoppies", because most of us had the balls to hop on one foot to catch up to the guy too. The girls at school wouldn't so much as look at you unless you'd hoppied at least a few hobos.

[workpublic]

The only thing I said was the boys were arrested and charged with murder quickly (unlike Zimmerman). That's it.

again folks zimmerman wasn't arrested because there was no evidence he "murdered" martin. he wasn't convicted because he didn't "murder" martin. there was no evidence that he "racially" profiled martin.

he skell profiled him.

and although whites are like 5 times more in the population than blacks, they commit very little amounts of crimes against blacks. black on black crime is epidemic, black on white crime is large.

stop the nonsense.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 23, 2013 9:19:44 GMT -5 workpublic said:

The only thing I said was the boys were arrested and charged with murder quickly (unlike Zimmerman). That's it.

again folks zimmerman wasn't arrested because there was no evidence he "murdered" martin. he wasn't convicted because he didn't "murder" martin. there was no evidence that he "racially" profiled martin.

he skell profiled him.

and although whites are like 5 times more in the population than blacks, they commit very little amounts of crimes against blacks. black on black crime is epidemic, black on white crime is large.

stop the nonsense.

Post trial comments by the jurors (or at least from the several who spoke out) believed GZ was guilty of murder but there just wasn't enough evidence to convict under the law.

[frankq]

Aug 21, 2013 20:45:32 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

 Three teens (all "minors") were bored... but they had a handgun.

 If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

 Spin THAT.

They also had a shotgun hidden in the car, weapons stolen or "procured" from the home of someone they knew....If you're going to say that this never would have happened if not for the "gun", you are mistaken. Evil will do evil in any way possible.

[frankq]

Post trial comments by the jurors (or at least from the several who spoke out) believed GZ was guilty of murder but there just wasn't enough evidence to convict under the law.

They can "believe" whatever they want. There wasn't evidence to convict because there wasn't a murder. What "several" spoke out? You mean the two of them? Who calls the cops to tell them where they are before committing a murder? Geez........

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2013 13:54:03 GMT -5 frankq said:

Aug 21, 2013 20:45:32 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

 Three teens (all "minors") were bored... but they had a handgun.

 If they hadn't had a handgun, there would be one more Australian student in Oklahoma... alive.

 Spin THAT.

They also had a shotgun hidden in the car, weapons stolen or "procured" from the home of someone they knew....If you're going to say that this never would have happened if not for the "gun", you are mistaken. Evil will do evil in any way possible.

 It is quite obvious that acquiring firearms was no challenge for these teens.
 If it hadn't been so easy, and it had required a bit more effort for them to acquire their mode of mischief, they might have sought out some other form of entertainment.