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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:11:22 GMT -5
In recent interview with "Entertainment Tonight," Oprah Winfrey recalled a clerk at an upscale Zurich boutique refusing to show her a handbag. Winfrey said she was told she could not afford the $38,000 purse.
"I'm in a store and the person doesn't obviously know that I carry the black card and so they make an assessment based upon the way I look and who I am," said Winfrey, who earned $77 million in the year ending in June, according to Forbes magazine.
I heard them talking about this on the radio on my way in this morning and she admitted that she was "dressed down" while shopping. So I don't necessarily think they said what they said because she was black, but rather because of how she was dressed.
What say you?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 13, 2013 10:14:59 GMT -5
I think it was how she was dressed, but how do you not recognize Oprah? I'm not black and I've had the same experiences. I was at a bridal expo and told my BFF I swear I have the word "poor" stamped on my forehead based on how vendors refused to acknowledge me. Same thing happened at David's Bridal. Which was funny to me because I consider them the Wal-mart of the bridal industry. Of all the places to be snooty.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:17:45 GMT -5
The sales associate at David's suggested that I go up a size and I told her I thought my dress fit perfectly. She then said "well, you can just lose 10 lbs instead, I guess"!! So when the cashier asked me if I had any help with my selection, I told her no.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 13, 2013 10:19:59 GMT -5
I told them a $150 veil they tried to push on me was a piece of crap. She got pretty pissed with me. I noticed they paid a lot more attention to the brides who brought their parents. I read in Bridal Bargains they think that mommy/daddy have deeper pockets and will do anything to make their little girl's day special. I was tempted to drag my dad in and see what happened. DB would have been in for a shock.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 13, 2013 10:25:26 GMT -5
I think people being ignored in fancy stores like that is more Pretty Woman syndrome than racism. They way you dress does effect people's first opinions of you.
Also the way you act. I'm often mistaken as a late teen/early 20 and I bet some servers roll their eyes when I get seated at a table. I haven't gotten it as much lately, but when I open my mouth and pronounce the food/wine correctly and ask about pairings a lot seem to then realize I'm not some kid going to a place that's fancy. I could totally see someone saying "Can I see that orange bag over there" and the sales clerk going "Oh God, they don't even know what a Birkin bag looks like, there's no way they can afford this bag. This is a waste of my time."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:26:26 GMT -5
it happens at upscale department and boutique stores everywhere
my wife and i were definitely dressed down in Curacao (on vacation coming from beach)
We stopped at a nice jewelry store.....my wife saw a breitling in the window that she liked
we were basically told we probably couldnt afford anything in their shop
we left....went down a few doors and found another jewelry store selling rolex and cartier brands
my wife got herself a very nice sleek new watch.....
and to make it better, of course we had to stop in at the first shop to show it off.....
what is the old adage.....
"dont judge a book by it's cover"
we train the same thing into our sales department.....and yet we still make the same damn mistakes on occasion
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 13, 2013 10:29:32 GMT -5
People are definitely treated differently when they dress well vs. looking like they just got out of bed. We were at shooting range last night next to a better dressed minority couple than we were. I'm sure they felt they were "slumming it!" Gang banger looking guys come in and all of us got nervous which was just funny to think about but they were nervous, too, or at least she was! So was I! The guys, I think, were oblivious. I think women get scared more easily because we are aware of being women.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 13, 2013 10:32:14 GMT -5
Servers do it all the time as well. I got a huge tip off an old couple once because they noticed I was the only one who didn't try to pass them off in favor of the business men behind them. They were aware the other servers assumed old people wouldn't tip well. Since I didn't play the game, they rewarded me and told me why. The irony was the business men stiffed the server who "won" the table.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Aug 13, 2013 10:35:24 GMT -5
this isn't a case of racism... the same thing happened to julia roberts. Didn't anyone see Pretty Woman?!?!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 13, 2013 10:37:49 GMT -5
It is the clothes and behavior that labels you, not who you are as a race, but I'm sure some posters will enjoy disagreeing since they like to promote racism.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 13, 2013 10:38:57 GMT -5
I'm white and although I don't have Oprah money, if I really wanted a $38k purse, could buy one. I'm also a very, um, "casual" dresser (usually wearing sports clothes or sailing tech gear). My only similarity to Oprah is that we both get that snotty treatment in expensive stores sometimes. So it could be racism, could be elitism, could just be crappy sales help. The point is there is no way to know. Some of the opinion pieces I've read about the Oprah incident annoyed me because they seem to assume it's racism. Maybe it is, but there's not enough information to know and always jumping to that assumption isn't helpful. Edited to add: not sure I agree with the assessment that poor store treatment is based on clothes and behavior. Although I am a casual dresser, my behavior is always appropriate, I use good manners and am an articulate, intelligent shopper, so my behavior has not been a factor (nor, I'm guessing, was behavior a factor for Oprah.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:39:53 GMT -5
It is the clothes and behavior that labels you, not who you are as a race, but I'm sure some posters will enjoy disagreeing since they like to promote racism. and who are these posters?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 13, 2013 10:40:47 GMT -5
Well, considering stores have no issue closing their doors so well to do people of ANY race can shop in privacy, I think it's a non issue.
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kent
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Post by kent on Aug 13, 2013 10:52:44 GMT -5
So I don't necessarily think they said what they said because she was black, but rather because of how she was dressed. What say you? I say I agree. This happens to me on a fairly regular basis if I'm shopping for a big ticket item (e.g. a car) because I tend to dress somewhat like a rag picker when doing so. It's just a little "game" I play to weed out the elitist types. If the salesperson approaches me and offers assistance, there's a pretty good chance they're decent and don't "judge a book by its cover." When you're retired, you dream up operating procedures like this to have a little fun.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 13, 2013 10:56:31 GMT -5
Oh, man. Don't get me started about car shopping.
The funny thing is that the treatment is usually worse at the low and mid level dealerships. At the truly elite dealerships (Jag, Maserati, Porsche, Mercedes, etc.), they run out to kiss your butt no matter how you're dressed. Guess they've figured out the real money sometimes wears flip flops. Especially here in Florida.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 10:58:45 GMT -5
wait, you're allowed to car shop without having a penis?
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 13, 2013 11:00:31 GMT -5
wait, you're allowed to car shop without having a penis? Sometimes. Although you will get tired of how many times they show you the vanity mirror or talk about incredibly basic features.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 13, 2013 11:03:14 GMT -5
wait, you're allowed to car shop without having a penis? I walked out of a car dealership years ago because the salesman kept trying to negotiate with my husband. I told him two times that I am the one buying the car and that I will be the one making the decision. The second time he starting talking to my husband I said, "that's it, we are leaving" and I walked out. I did make sure I stopped by in my new SUV a few weeks later and let him know that the dealership I bought it from had no problem dealing with women. I was only in my mid-20s at that point so I am not sure if it was my age (though DH is around the same age) or the fact that I was female...either way, he pissed me off and I have never looked at a car at that dealership again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 11:06:44 GMT -5
wait, you're allowed to car shop without having a penis? Sometimes. Although you will get tired of how many times they show you the vanity mirror or talk about incredibly basic features. "This car has lots of thingies in the engine that make it go fast. And look at the pretty paint color!"
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wodehouse
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Post by wodehouse on Aug 13, 2013 11:09:28 GMT -5
speaking of Florida...
My wife has noticed that we get nicer treatment in the malls since I generally wear jeans but also a well-pressed cotton dress shirt. She must think I look 'preppy' or something. That's just me, how I've dressed all my adult life, not dressing 'up' or 'down'. Since she's mentioned it I have noticed it myself.
What I cannot stand is seeing these mid/older/old guys who are dressed like little boys of 7 years age: sloppy shorts with an enormous tee shirt, neither item very well tailored, and the shirt invariably covering a ginormous belly of some sort. It's like the uniform here. Okay at the beach or basketball court, but
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Aug 13, 2013 11:13:44 GMT -5
wait, you're allowed to car shop without having a penis? I walked out of a car dealership years ago because the salesman kept trying to negotiate with my husband. I told him two times that I am the one buying the car and that I will be the one making the decision. The second time he starting talking to my husband I said, "that's it, we are leaving" and I walked out. I did make sure I stopped by in my new SUV a few weeks later and let him know that the dealership I bought it from had no problem dealing with women. I was only in my mid-20s at that point so I am not sure if it was my age (though DH is around the same age) or the fact that I was female...either way, he pissed me off and I have never looked at a car at that dealership again. I think I may have gone to that dealership too! my BF at the time actually told the guy rather bluntly a couple times that I was buying the car, but the dealer insisted on talking to my BF.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 13, 2013 11:19:41 GMT -5
The optimist in me would like to believe it is only about elitism...
However this very topic was once addressed on an episode of "What would you do?"
The had people shop in expensive botique shops on different days, wearing the exact same outfits (or very close to it) and in a few cases the minorities were given poorer service.
To the general credit of humanity, the other customers called the salespeople out on their behaviour but it would be better if it had not happened in the first place.
Personally, I've had it happen to me but I KNOW it's because of how I dress. For nonwork wear I dress for comfort and a reasonable amount of style, not to impress. My work wardrobe is different and I shop at expensive (at least for me) stores to get suits with good craftsmanship. I've been passed over by the younger sales crowd only to have the old(er) lady who knows how to provide serve to all help me and rack up a nice sale.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 11:20:06 GMT -5
I walked out of a car dealership years ago because the salesman kept trying to negotiate with my husband. I told him two times that I am the one buying the car and that I will be the one making the decision. The second time he starting talking to my husband I said, "that's it, we are leaving" and I walked out. I did make sure I stopped by in my new SUV a few weeks later and let him know that the dealership I bought it from had no problem dealing with women. I was only in my mid-20s at that point so I am not sure if it was my age (though DH is around the same age) or the fact that I was female...either way, he pissed me off and I have never looked at a car at that dealership again. I think I may have gone to that dealership too! my BF at the time actually told the guy rather bluntly a couple times that I was buying the car, but the dealer insisted on talking to my BF. I think I went here too...but with my dad. I was also then told that they didn't have the car I wanted because all of the ones they did have were stick shift (which is what I wanted, but apparently they assumed that I wanted an automatic, being a chick and all). I dress very casually, except when the situation demands nicer dress. While I'm not shopping for 38k purses, I have always gotten decent service at most of the upscale stores. I honestly wonder if jewelry helps....while my engagement ring isn't huge, it's a pretty decent size, and given the cost of things I'm normally looking at, it would suggest that I can easily afford them.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 13, 2013 11:21:05 GMT -5
wait, you're allowed to car shop without having a penis? When I bought a car in 2000 (I was 27 at that time) the salesperson kept telling me they were going to have to check my credit. He said this 3 times... I guess a single gal in her late 20's couldn't possibly have good credit . After he ran my credit report he came back with a completely shocked look on his face telling me how great my credit was. I just said "I know, you don't need to tell me." I wanted to add dumb ass to the end of that sentence but I didn't.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Aug 13, 2013 11:26:47 GMT -5
having also experienced the opposite end of that spectrum, it is definitely how the salesperson is trained and what the store/brand wants as its image (think: A&F blatantly excluding anyone over a size 10) my sis and I went to check out the new high-end wing of the mall in our hometown over Thanksgiving weekend the year they opened it, looking like we'd just rolled out of bed because well, we did just roll out of bed. we wandered in and out of Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom's, checking out the shoes. to their credit, not a single employee even looked at us sideways while we picked up the display Louboutins and such. they didn't offer assistance, but they weren't seeking out any customers either. if a customer approached them, they were all over it. we talked about it as we were leaving the stores, and we both admitted that we wouldn't have had that sort of restraint if we were working and something came in looking like we did and started pawing the $1k shoes.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Aug 13, 2013 11:38:13 GMT -5
I think it is a combination of racism and elitism. If you were white and "dressed down" you might get treated ok or not. If you were black and "dressed up" they might think you have money and treat you nicely. But if you are black and dressed down, there is no way they will treat you nice.
I spent 2 months working in Switzerland with a coworker who is black and Muslim. We were not in a big city. We saw almost no black people in the small town or the big company that were were visiting. My co-worker did not have any issues, but if he was alone, I think he would have been treated differently.
And as to the "who doesn't recognize Oprah", well this is Switzerland. There is some US TV, but I doubt they had her show.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Aug 13, 2013 12:02:15 GMT -5
I agree with Rukh, in that there's no way for us to tell exactly what the motivation or intention of the salesperson was. Could have been multiple things, or a combination, who knows? I guess what bothers me (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Oprah was in the store alone, right? (Which I find odd; no entourage ) Anyway, if she WAS alone why did she feel the need to make this public? The story had to get out somehow. Seems to me she wanted it to be known that "Oprah" is not to be treated this way. I admire her for all that she's accomplished, but I think it's more a matter of her NOT being treated as the royalty she feels she deserves...
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 13, 2013 12:04:43 GMT -5
On some level, this makes me glad that the two places I've lived as an adult (Reno and Seattle-are) both have economies where the person in shorts, t-shirt, flip-flops, with facial piercings could easily have just hit the big jackpot or work for a high paying tech company. It means that sales folks know they cannot judge their customers based on how they are dressed.
At the same time, I do notice a difference in how we are treated based on how I'm dressed (DH is always dressed the same) when we go look at open houses. I LOVE looking at open houses and follow the market in my area pretty closely. We are treated as looky-loos from the moment we enter, not worth the realtor's (the power of realtors is that spell check tells me the word should be capitalized, like it's a title) time, if I am in a t-shirt. However, if I happen to have a slightly nicer shirt on (business casual), we are treated as potential buyers, even after I tell them we're just looky-loos.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 12:07:02 GMT -5
I agree with Rukh, in that there's no way for us to tell exactly what the motivation or intention of the salesperson was. Could have been multiple things, or a combination, who knows? I guess what bothers me (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Oprah was in the store alone, right? (Which I find odd; no entourage ) Anyway, if she WAS alone why did she feel the need to make this public? The story had to get out somehow. Seems to me she wanted it to be known that "Oprah" is not to be treated this way. I admire her for all that she's accomplished, but I think it's more a matter of her NOT being treated as the royalty she feels she deserves... She's promoting her new movie The Butler and they deal with racism in the film.
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Aug 13, 2013 12:10:50 GMT -5
T So I don't necessarily think they said what they said because she was black, but rather because of how she was dressed. What say you? I say I agree. This happens to me on a fairly regular basis if I'm shopping for a big ticket item (e.g. a car) because I tend to dress somewhat like a rag picker when doing so. It's just a little "game" I play to weed out the elitist types. If the salesperson approaches me and offers assistance, there's a pretty good chance they're decent and don't "judge a book by its cover." When you're retired, you dream up operating procedures like this to have a little fun. This is exactly what I do. It's fun to be retired, isn't it though?
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