Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Aug 4, 2013 16:15:31 GMT -5
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 4, 2013 18:49:24 GMT -5
So, it's really no different from the education system we've had for the last couple hundred years?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2013 0:48:16 GMT -5
From the link in the OP: Nearly three of every four South Korean kids participate in the private market. In 2012, their parents spent more than $17 billion on these services. ... ... For decades, the South Korean government has been trying to tame the country's private-education market. Politicians have imposed curfews and all manner of regulations on hagwons, even going so far as to ban them altogether during the 1980s, when the country was under military rule. Each time the hagwons have come back stronger.
"The only solution is to improve public education," says Mr. Kim, the millionaire teacher, echoing what the country's education minister and dozens of other Korean educators told me. If parents trusted the system, the theory goes, they wouldn't resort to paying high fees for extra tutoring. So Korean parents invest additional money in private tutoring to supplement public education. American parents certainly are free to do the same in this country.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Aug 5, 2013 8:04:09 GMT -5
So, it's really no different from the education system we've had for the last couple hundred years? If "nearly three of every four South Korean kids participate in the private market," it would seem it is available at a range of prices for people to afford.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Aug 5, 2013 8:06:16 GMT -5
From the link in the OP: Nearly three of every four South Korean kids participate in the private market. In 2012, their parents spent more than $17 billion on these services. ... ... For decades, the South Korean government has been trying to tame the country's private-education market. Politicians have imposed curfews and all manner of regulations on hagwons, even going so far as to ban them altogether during the 1980s, when the country was under military rule. Each time the hagwons have come back stronger.
"The only solution is to improve public education," says Mr. Kim, the millionaire teacher, echoing what the country's education minister and dozens of other Korean educators told me. If parents trusted the system, the theory goes, they wouldn't resort to paying high fees for extra tutoring. So Korean parents invest additional money in private tutoring to supplement public education. American parents certainly are free to do the same in this country. Of course if almost 75% of South Korean kids participate in this extra tutoring, it might also say something about the value parents place on education within the culture as well.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2013 8:54:10 GMT -5
... Of course if almost 75% of South Korean kids participate in this extra tutoring, it might also say something about the value parents place on education within the culture as well. I think it says a great deal about parents within that culture. Can the U.S. learn from this academic superpower? (from the OP) Yes, U.S. parents could learn a lot.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Aug 5, 2013 8:59:54 GMT -5
From the link in the OP: Nearly three of every four South Korean kids participate in the private market. In 2012, their parents spent more than $17 billion on these services. ... ... For decades, the South Korean government has been trying to tame the country's private-education market. Politicians have imposed curfews and all manner of regulations on hagwons, even going so far as to ban them altogether during the 1980s, when the country was under military rule. Each time the hagwons have come back stronger.
"The only solution is to improve public education," says Mr. Kim, the millionaire teacher, echoing what the country's education minister and dozens of other Korean educators told me. If parents trusted the system, the theory goes, they wouldn't resort to paying high fees for extra tutoring. So Korean parents invest additional money in private tutoring to supplement public education. American parents certainly are free to do the same in this country. Good idea on its face, but remember we have the Democrats in this country who would never allow people with means to get something those without means won't or can't get. So, the Dems would be calling for subsidies to low income families for "private" tutoring. So, then, the American taxpayer would be paying for both a dismal public education system and "private" tutoring. So why not just cut out the failing public school system altogether since we'd be paying double at that point?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2013 9:06:35 GMT -5
... Good idea on its face, but remember we have the Democrats in this country who would never allow people with means to get something those without means won't or can't get. ... Do you not realize that private tutoring takes place in this country currently? Not on the scale that it takes place in Korea, but it is happening here now. Google: private tutors About 7,150,000 results (0.13 seconds)
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 5, 2013 16:53:16 GMT -5
So, it's really no different from the education system we've had for the last couple hundred years? What's wrong is the bidding war for PUBLIC education. Schools are determined by geography, not real competition- so the competition is to live in the "good school districts". Not surprisingly, one of the biggest obstacles to true school choice are Realtors and the real estate industry and related lobbies. Can you imagine what would happen to home values across the country in "good" school districts if there was true school choice? There's a bidding war for education, only you have to bid for the HOUSE - purchase, or rent- to get it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 5, 2013 16:55:32 GMT -5
... Of course if almost 75% of South Korean kids participate in this extra tutoring, it might also say something about the value parents place on education within the culture as well. I think it says a great deal about parents within that culture. Can the U.S. learn from this academic superpower? (from the OP) Yes, U.S. parents could learn a lot. The perception that education is "free" is like the perception that housing, food, healthcare or anything else can be "free". Parents have no incentive to learn. Parents don't care. It's an entitlement. Parents flip out that they need to supply their own glue and pencils.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2013 17:48:42 GMT -5
I think it says a great deal about parents within that culture. Can the U.S. learn from this academic superpower? (from the OP) Yes, U.S. parents could learn a lot. The perception that education is "free" is like the perception that housing, food, healthcare or anything else can be "free". Parents have no incentive to learn. Parents don't care. It's an entitlement. Parents flip out that they need to supply their own glue and pencils. And if we did away with taxpayer supported education, many parents still will not learn. At least with it in place, some kids do learn in spite of parents.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 5, 2013 19:04:29 GMT -5
The perception that education is "free" is like the perception that housing, food, healthcare or anything else can be "free". Parents have no incentive to learn. Parents don't care. It's an entitlement. Parents flip out that they need to supply their own glue and pencils. And if we did away with taxpayer supported education, many parents still will not learn. At least with it in place, some kids do learn in spite of parents. Yeah, but instead of having free babysitters, and interrupting the kids that do want to learn, these parents could be held responsible for their minor children in other ways.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2013 20:53:49 GMT -5
... these parents could be held responsible for their minor children in other ways. Who would hold the parents responsible? What would the parents be held responsible to do with their children?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2013 23:19:24 GMT -5
the argument presented here is hilarious. private schools are stellar in the US. what is to improve?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Aug 6, 2013 7:29:13 GMT -5
the argument presented here is hilarious. private schools are stellar in the US. what is to improve? Affordability, it is true private schools in the US are very good, but it is hard to compete against "free".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 6, 2013 14:52:29 GMT -5
the argument presented here is hilarious. private schools are stellar in the US. what is to improve? Affordability, it is true private schools in the US are very good, but it is hard to compete against "free". exactly. and how are $4M salaries going to make them more affordable, again?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Aug 6, 2013 18:52:51 GMT -5
Affordability, it is true private schools in the US are very good, but it is hard to compete against "free". exactly. and how are $4M salaries going to make them more affordable, again? I wasn't specifically talking about the $4million dollar teacher, just private school in US in general, but it is probably a little misleading to say he has a $4M salary, that might lead people to believe that he mostly sits in front of kids and lectures and it these students tuition's are paying for his salary, when it is not at all like that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 6, 2013 20:58:57 GMT -5
exactly. and how are $4M salaries going to make them more affordable, again? I wasn't specifically talking about the $4million dollar teacher, just private school in US in general, but it is probably a little misleading to say he has a $4M salary, that might lead people to believe that he mostly sits in front of kids and lectures and it these students tuition's are paying for his salary, when it is not at all like that. no, i agree. i was referring to the OP, fc23. if the objective is to get a meritocracy based on pay among teachers, and college is already too expensive, that indicates only ONE possible outcome- and it is exactly the opposite of the one in South Korea.
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