WWII European "must sees"

[Apple]

If you were going to Europe for a month to do a WWII tour, what would be on your "must see" list?  I'm ready to start seriously planning this thing, even if it's still two years out.

We've been to England twice, so not doing anything there this trip.  We plan to do France, Germany, Austria, Poland, The Netherlands, and maybe Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and The Czech Republic since we'll be right by them (if they prove to have something we want to see).

Some countries might just be a stop for a day or two (I don't think we'd be in Poland long, but don't know yet).  Other countries I want to get a little more time in.

This might be my last big trip with my son, so I want to hit the highlights and "lesser known" awesome places.  I would almost certainly be going back at some point to see more things I really want to see.

For things that are hard to tour on your own (out of the way, not much to see unless you have a guide who knows what to look for, etc) I'm not opposed to hiring a guide or doing a day tour.  I just don't want to do that whole thing as a tour since I like doing things at our pace and I'm not afraid of all those little things that happen.  I can look at just about anything as an adventure, even when things don't go as planned.

So, what would you hit?

Any advice for a good route to take?  Using the trains, buses, guides?  Finding cheap, but safe and clean places to stay?  I used Wimdu on our last vacation--it would be awesome to stay with families though.  We don't spend much time in our rooms--it's just a place to sleep, shower, and reorganize.

[wyouser]

Peenemunde on Usedom Island on the baltic is where the V-I and V-II rockets were developed. They have a museum there.Usedom Island is straight nroth of Berlin.  Nuremburg has the sites of the Nazi party rallies and a very good museum in the unfinished ampitheater next  to the ralley grounds (Had it nbeen finished it would have seated 400,00 for future rallies).Buchenwald Concetration camp near Weimar is interesting as is the concentration camp at Dachau outside Munich    The site of Hitlers bunker is marked in Berlin, It is not far from the Reichstag.  Goerings Airministry building still exists also not far from the Reichstag. If you are into hiking, Goerings residence ruins "Karinhall" are located north of Berlin in the Schorfheide area of the Ueckermark.  Himmler aquired a castle north of the Ruhr gebeit Wevelsburg.  Has some interesting interior decoration, though the purpose of some of the rooms for SS rituals has been lost. There are siome reminants of the Siegfried line along the border with France. I believe some of the French Maginot line can be viewed too. Parts of Hitlers residence in Berchtesgaden can be viewd (the underground parts survived) also his teahouse  , (the Eagles nest) on the top of the mountain is there. There were underground factories just outside Nordhausen on the edge of the Hartz mountains where ME 262 jets and VII rockets were assembled by concentration camp inmates  It was a subcamp of Buchenwald.  The soviets blew the cave entrances closed but they have since been excavated after German reunification.

[NoNamePerson]

One place I know I would go visit is Ardennes American Cemetery. But for a very personal reason. My father's name is on this memorial.

Can't offer anything to your post except that I wish I could go and do a tour such as you are planning.

[steph08]

For Auschwitz,  you should grab a tour guide. We went in March 2012 and it was so unbelievably packed that I didn't even know where to turn. Thankfully we had taken a tour from Krakow and our guide was responsible for getting the tickets, headsets, etc. We also hit Schindler's Factory/Museum in Krakow - it was okay, but nothing special.

We also took a tour of the Caen WWII Memorial and some of the Normandy beaches. Our guide was very good. The museum is very interesting, so I definitely recommend that.

[Deleted]

Bastogne

[Apple]

Thanks for all the ideas

WWII is the main stuff, but not opposed to seeing WWI sites at all.  And finding some old rusty relics would be awesome.

Steph--do you remember where/how you booked your guide?  Did you do it from the states or pick someplace once you got over there?

NNP--if we can make it to the cemetary, I'll PM you--we could leave a flower or a small wreath (if we're allowed.  Hell, even if we're not!) 

[Deleted]

Bastogne you can do a guided tour, they have a killer monument, a museum, and they have the famous Jack Woods forest from Band of Brothers (the Band of Brothers thing is a bit overdone but something to see)

[NoNamePerson]

Jul 30, 2013 14:22:57 GMT -5 Apple said:

Thanks for all the ideas

WWII is the main stuff, but not opposed to seeing WWI sites at all.  And finding some old rusty relics would be awesome.

Steph--do you remember where/how you booked your guide?  Did you do it from the states or pick someplace once you got over there?

NNP--if we can make it to the cemetary, I'll PM you--we could leave a flower or a small wreath (if we're allowed.  Hell, even if we're not!) 

[Deleted]

wyouser said it earlier, but the maginot line

i dont know if any of the underground areas are still open (they were in early 80's)

we went with a local, and all were young so climbing around and exploring was kind of cool

the eagles nest is awesome.....top of a mountain with telescopes (one of hitler's hideaways)

back in 80's it was a tea house....

dont go if you are claustrophobic (the elevator ride seemed like it took forever)

you and like 50 of your best friends will fit into it......

the walk through the opening is awesome.....built in 1937-8.....quite a nice place

the normandy gravesite.....it is a sight to behold.....takes your breath away

[Deleted]

I know you have posted about going to Normandy before. If you do it on your own make sure you visit the newish (5 years old) visitor center above Omaha Beach. They've done a really good job. You can drive the route yourself, just be sure that you visit one of the 6! German cemeteries. I've done the tour twice; once with a friend's French husband who is quite the military buff and the second with me mostly being the guide with a little help from Lonely Planet's section on Normandy in their big France guide. They may do a separate guide on Normandy. Unfortunately Normandy isn't really transit friendly so you'll need to either rent a car or take a tour. I think it's worth it to have the car. Two other non WWII sites nearby are the Bayeaux Tapestry (The chronicling of the 1066 invasion) and Mont St. Michel. I would probably take a train from Paris to Rouen and rent a car in Rouen. Rouen BTW is where Jean d'Arc was burned at the stake and is an interesting town on it's own.

The German cemeteries are striking for a number of reasons but for me were how they were buried 3 deep and perhaps most striking about a third are "unbekannte" meaning unknown. As the war dragged on the front line soldiers were moved around a lot and scavenged clothing from others and there was no way to identify who these people were.

Near Nehou is Camp Patton. This is the apple orchard where General Patton camped as part of the great diversion. We got a personal tour from DH's cousin who is General Patton's granddaughter. She has a house in Nehou. There's also a funky little Patton Museum in Nehou itself.

If you find yourself in Germany in my old stopping grounds of Bonn, the Haus der Geschickte is worth a visit. On the ground floor is a huge catalogue card system documenting all the missing children. Also videos of children looking for remaining relatives. It's very moving and a reminder that there many different kinds of victims from the war.

South of Bonn is the remains of the Bridge at Remagen. My girlfriend and I cycled from Bonn. Nice little museum too.

North of Bonn is Koeln (Cologne). It's worth a visit to see what the Allied bombing campaign did to the city. It's said that they left some of the cathedral standing as a navigational tool for the pilots since they were built along the points of a compass. Also don't miss the Roman era mosaics in the museum below. "Cologne" comes from the Latin word for Colony.  It will remind you that der Rhein , has been fought over for millenea and that WWII was just another iteration. Fast train service between Paris and Cologne is excellent (I don't recommend having a car in Paris ) on Thalys.

[wyouser]

I believe the German U boat pens still exist in St Nazairre in France. There may be part of one in Kiel too..They were unsucessful in blowing it up in the 90's I believe. In 1971 there was still a German Panther tank sitting in a Belgian village where it was knocked out in the battle of the bulge. At least one book from 2001 or 2002 about the Battle of the Bulge indicated it was still there.  The German Pocket Battleship, Admiral Scheer was sunk in Kiel at the end of the war. It is now a dock.  If you look closly when touring German cathedrals , you will find some memorials to the dead missing and wounded from local regiments that served in WWII. The one in Ulm was still there in 2010.  There were many barracks used by the German military in WWII that werre taken over by the US military . They contain numbers of interesting buildings etc.  Many have been turned back over to the Germans in the last 10- 12 years.

[tskeeter]

Apple, spent a week in Normandy a year ago last May.  I'm a raving fan of the guy who was our tour guide for the week.  I know that you don't really want to use a guide, but I think you might miss out on a lot if you don't.

Our guide (Stuart Robertson) was a former military historian (Royal Artillary).  Has been a WWII buff, especally the Normandy invaision, since childhood.  (A great uncle is buried in the Commonwealth Cemetery at Bayeux.)  At mid career, he and his wife decided to move to Normandy so he could begin guiding tours of the invasion beaches and beyond.

Stuart showed us the beaches and much more.  A section of hedge row that was similar to what the forces on both sides encountered.  (Almost none of the hedge exists any more.)  He talked about why the hedge was such a big deal, why it existed in the first place, any why it was so thick.  And he explained how the Allied forces knew that there were German forces in close proximity, despite not being able to see or hear the Germans through the hedge.  Stuart took us to see the Merville Battery, describing the events preceeding the assault, the prosecution of the assault despite the loss of a good portion of the assault force, and the outcome of the assault.  We visited the command bunker of the Hillman Complex and chatted with Stuart's friend Daniel, who is the head of the local historical group working on restoring the Hillman Complex.  We visited a church that was used as a first aid station and listened to stories about the two medics who had provided aid to Allies, Germans, and local citizens.  (Stuart had gotten much of his information from in person conversations with one of the medics.)  And we discussed the German defences, the composition of the German defence forces, and what those defences meant for the forces landing on the beaches and working their way inland.  These conversations extended to how different types of guns (machine guns vs. field pieces) were the most dangerous for the landing forces and why.  If we had been touring the beaches on our own, we'd have seen some sand, some museums, and the American Cemetery.  But we really wouldn't have learned much about the invasion. 

Certainly Stuart's background lends itself to his expertise as a tour guide.  But his intense interest in the landing has lead him to acquire an extensive breadth of knowledge about the topic.  (I'm still working my way through the reading list that Stuart put together to help me learn more about the invasion and it's aftermath.)

Normandy isn't just about D-Day.  In the course of our travels around Normandy, Stuart also made sure we visited the site of some prehistoric hill tombs and a copy of a Roman mile post that had stood at that site for hundreds of years (the original mile post is now housed in a museum elsewhere in France).  If you are at all into architecture and stained glass, the Bayeux Cathederal is well worth a visit.  As is the Bayeux Tapestry.  And Mont St. Michelle is only a day trip away from the heart of the invasion beaches. 

About nine months after our trip, I polled the four other members of our party.  All of them expressed unsolicited feedback that they would like to return to Normandy for another session of WWII history lessons with Stuart.  When was the last time you left history class so excited about what you learned that you could hardly wait for the next class to begin?